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Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Extended Edition

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Ulminati, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Prime Junta Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Prime Junta
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    I've been plodding on. Still find it meh. Finally beat that one hard fight the hard way with my badly-chosen party that everyone's raving about and still thought it was more of a slog than something exciting.

    But the gameplay just isn't doing it for me. I never was a big fan of SRR combat, and in this one the fights are just bigger and take longer. I'm still cycling through the same abilities to grind down the mobs, and if I do it right I barely take any damage. It's not that it's easy -- if I don't do it right I will get overwhelmed and there's not much I can do to turn things around -- it's just repetitive, rote, tedious, and takes really long.

    Put another, way, I feel about SRR combat the way Darth Roxor feels about PoE combat. Weird.
     
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  2. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    I don't get this. That's like saying combat in the IE games is boring when you rest after every fight.
     
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  3. Mozg Arcane

    Mozg
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    The combat in the IE games is always boring.

    The AI on AI rugby scrum is just one fight out of plenty of tedious ones. Intentionally dumb play doesn't seem to make the other ones less tedious.
     
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  4. Prime Junta Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Prime Junta
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    Completed it.

    The last fight didn't change my opinion. It was just grindy, oh-look, another wave of the same kind of enemy I just killed in the last couple of rounds. Dragonfall was the only one of the series that rose above mediocrity IMO. DMS was promising but extremely small and extremely limited, HK was like they phoned in another DF without really having their heart in it, and Shadows was just more, more of the same.

    This was just average and forgettable.
     
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  5. Mozg Arcane

    Mozg
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    I'm on the opposite end. I like the CYOA dialog tree and skill stuff, the skill use, I like finding the run gimmicks like the exploding cars in that one mission. I'd keep buying DF/HK sized Shadowrun games in this engine for more iterations if they'd keep making them. I just don't want heavy dungeon crawl filler combat, especially in a system where I don't really have anything left to learn after playing three games with the same systems. Less combat made HK better than DF ceteris paribus, and less combat slogs would have made the epilogue better also. This didn't feel phoned it, it seemed like they were responding to the not-enough-combat-in-HK-DF-slogs-were-better people by stuffing in more of it.
     
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  6. Crichton Prophet

    Crichton
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    Just finished it; the missions themselves are acceptable but I would much rather HBS had put the effort into improving the main campaign rather than tacking this mini-campaign on (an "enhanced edition" rather than an "extended edition" I suppose one might say).

    I think they could have put this whole storyline in before the "Raymond Black" mission with some sort of flimsy excuse about needing to neutralize enemies on the executive council before moving in against Josephine Tsang. Then, if the player sided with Qiu, you could just have the player work for Mitsuhama for the last couple missions; Auntie Cheng haters would be pleased, stretching out the main campaign would improve the pacing and it would be nice to have a campaign mission somewhat related to the central conflict as opposed to doing random shit for Cheng until more plot unicorns stroll on over.

    As it stands, the gameplay is notch above most of the main campaign but a trifle combat-heavy. Despite playing with a reloader-arm/grenade launcher character, I didn't mind the ability of all the new fighter-types to throw back grenades. However in the future, it would be nice if both the player and more intelligent enemies could recognize characters with magnet arms to avoid getting hoisted on their own petards. With my magnet arm/wired reflexes/reloader arm shotgun-wielding cybertroll, it was pretty trivial to just pump everyone full of lead anyway, the AI really needs to figure out how the cover system works.
     
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  7. orcinator Savant

    orcinator
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    The games have dialogue trees?
     
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  8. Prime Junta Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Prime Junta
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    Musings.

    What I liked about DF was the way it kept you guessing right up to the end. You didn't really know what the deal was with Feuerschwinge until the endgame. The companion stories unfolded in similar ways. And there were shadowy factions like the Schockwellenreiter lurking on the sidelines, with a constant sense that there's way more out there than you're actually seeing.

    HK on the other hand was telegraphed from the start: you knew from the outset that there's some horrible evil lurking in the Walled City, and the story just dragged you relentlessly into the inevitable confrontation with it. There were no surprises there, it was just a plod from point A to point B. Same thing but moreso for this "Shadows" mini-campaign.

    And while the atmosphere and music are great, the combat just isn't quite good enough to stand on its own IMO. Not without a story like DF's to keep it together.
     
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  9. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    Ha! Anyone who watched their fair share of tv procedurals would guess DF ending the second Vauclair is mentioned for the first time.
     
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  10. Prime Junta Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Prime Junta
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    Guessing isn't knowing.
     
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  11. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    Nah, imo DF and HK really aren't that different in that regard. Admittedly you didn't really know the exact deal with Feuerschwinge and Vauclair, but you did know right away that everything revolved around them.

    In HK you knew about how something bad was happening in the WC (and that it likely would become important), but your prime object was going after the plastic guy and Tsang, while you didn't know the exact connections.
     
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  12. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    So, finished the Bonus campaign.
    I quite enjoyed it - the missions were a generally an improvement over the HK OC missions.
    Combat encounters were better as well (thanks to better composition and bigger numbers), although it's still a bit too easy.
    The balance between non-violent and combat content was better, too. With the exception of the underwater lab (which was too linear in comparison), there were plenty of opportunities to evade some combat (though not too many) or use various skills to make life easier/gain some equipment/discover alternate routes.

    I agree with others here that it would have been nice (and made sense) to get a 3rd ending where you help Qiu, give Duncan his life back, but don't take up her offer to regain your own SIN, instead staying in the shadows with your team.
    Anyway, personally I think that the family ending provided a better closure, even though the Runner ending probably fits the character better.
     
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  13. Rev Arcane

    Rev
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    The fights were cool at the beginning, but later on they lose some appeal when you had to face the same type of enemies, and with the same waves mechanics over and over again. They were pretty easy as well, it just took longer to finish them due to the spawning. But I did like the final fight in the girl's side quest (I choose to screw off everyone) and some nice touches here and there, like hacking the terminal and exploding cars around the enemies in the police station.

    I agree with everyone saying that they should've added a third ending.
    Show Spoiler
    I for one wanted to tell that Auntie bitch to fuck off from the very beginning of HK, and continue to work in the shadows with some proper fixer and the freedom to do what I want or go wherever I like, but that's not possible in the OC nor in the expansion. I guess someone at HBS really loves his Auntie Cheng character.
     
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  14. orcinator Savant

    orcinator
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    You still can't throw Tumblr overboard either
     
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  15. InD_ImaginE Magister Patron

    InD_ImaginE
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Because you are just an average joe with no experience in shadowrunning whatsoever. Why the heck anybody want to become your fixer when the whole HKPF is on your tail, you having no credibility, leave alone helpin you find your father or the plastic faced man("But I don't want to find my father, I want to just shadowrun." Then play AoD, or ask VD to make his next game in SR series). Oh, and it might be gameplay+story segregation (as in if you actually fight, you could probably win... or not. I doubt any of your crew except perhaps Duncan and Gaichu would side with you), but you are in fucking triad village which is in her control. Telling her to fuck off would probably resulted in your corpse floating the water.
     
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  16. Rev Arcane

    Rev
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    What you say is true for the first half of the original campaign, but later on you prove you're a very capable shadowrunner in numerous difficult jobs. Of course, it would be stupid to fuck off with her right at the start, I'm not saying that should be possible (or at least, doing so should bring you to an early game over), and she's useful to the player in finding Raymond and/or clues about Tsang and the Plastic Man, so it's okay to keep it cool and let her boss you around until you achieve your objectives, on this I agree with you.
    At the end of the game, though, the player is able to defeat teams of elite soldiers, megacorporations and a fucking demon, I'd say that after achieving that there should be quite the demand for your team's skills and finding a way to give Cheng some retribution shouldn't be that hard in comparison to your previous jobs. And that's even more true by the end of the expansion, where you take down another elite group and the machinations of one of the biggest megacorps of the world.
     
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  17. Septaryeth Savant

    Septaryeth
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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator

    Jaesun
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    He would have to pay to use the liscence, and all content would have to be approved by Microsoft, so no... :M
     
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  19. Septaryeth Savant

    Septaryeth
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    Knowing and hoping are different things...a man can dream, can he?

    :negative:
     
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  20. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    You sure that Microsoft still enters into that equation? AFAIK they were "just" acting as a publisher to SRR, but don't hold any rights to the license beyond that (I might be wrong there).
     
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  21. Duellist_D Savant Patron

    Duellist_D
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    Topps is the mothercompany for the license, i also don't think MS has any claims to the license anymore.
     
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  22. Shadowfang Arcane

    Shadowfang
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    You done it yourself? I wouldn't mind replaying Shadowrun Returns with every unit using the boss AI, and shooting more than once per turn.
     
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  23. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    Yep. [see post below for new version]

    Should work with any of the SR games since they have their own ai packages and I changed all of them. Extracting the HK folder into SRR won't hurt anything, for example.

    Edit: N/A
     
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  24. Shadowfang Arcane

    Shadowfang
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    Thanks.
    Going to fire SRR up and see how it feels.
     
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  25. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    I looked at the AI packages included when you just install SRR, and you might need to play Returns in the Dragonfall engine to take advantage of the modified AI packages. I don't think DMS used their GUMBO scripting language, that was DF and later.

    Also, I updated the AI mod to fully support Dragonfall. Follow the install instructions for Dragonfall if you're going to play Returns in that version of the engine.
     
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