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Atlus Shin Megami Tensei IV 3DS (beating MaroonSkein to the punch!)

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Humanity has risen!, May 30, 2012.

  1. Nikaido Arcane In My Safe Space

    Nikaido
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    oddech_wymarlych_swiatow

    SMT IV starts good and turns out mediocre the deeper you go. It has a few almost-hard fights at the start, and then the game suddenly cranks the easy mode up.
    Setting wise, it's still very much SMT but it doesn't feel as dreamy, mysterious as Nocturne and SMT, there are more interaction with people, you never really feel stranded in dangerous places and the maps are horribly small because of the 3DS limitations. They really, really should have used the Etrian Odyssey engine again, rather than try to make a nocturne-like view on a console that can only handle a small amount of 3D content. It really fucks a lot of the SMT experience to never feel stranded anywhere low on resources, you just know after a while how short the maps are and you're just 5 seconds away from a safe area.
    The gameplay doesn't have a single innovation beside smirk and that system just makes everything very onesided, either winning or losing, but you'll mostly be winning once you're done with the starter area and the minotaur. Oh, and dying doesn't make you reload a save, dunno how I really feel about that.
    The characters are terrible, which is bad because they will be traveling with you a lot. In particular, chaos dude is a real cunt. Law dude is a sissy, neutral girl is alright but the neutral path is the worst thing you could pick, whether accidentally or on purpose, because it essentially makes you do all the terrible fetchquesting of the game if you want to complete it, quests that are optional in other paths. And boy, are those quests terrible. With that fucking unreadable map. I ran in circles for hours because of that terrifyingly bad map.
    Which brings me to the alignment system, the dumbest of all SMT. You don't really get to pick a clear path toward an alignment, you have to constantly spam all the dialog choices you feel would be picked by a particular alignment (only between Law and Chaos because..) neutral path doesn't exist as its own entity. The game has an arbitrary line that declares you neutral depending on how many chaos and law choices you made and if they balance each other out, you're neutral. And really, if you ever get to play it, don't do that. Don't play a character that's not one dimensional. The neutral path is shit gameplay wise. Too much quest grind.
    It doesn't even have music as a redeeming factor which is a wtf for a SMT. It's nowhere near Nocturne and its funky rock during battles, or Strange Journey and its glorious classical themes. It has some music clearly inspired from nocturne's days but they feel like parodies.

    I am not going to get a new 3DS SMT again until they wise up and either make a sequel that's more in line to Strange Journey, or do spinoffs like Devil Survivor. SMT IV final can go take a hike in hell. To see a sequel to the worst mainline SMT come out so soon is so fucking disappointing.

    Oh and you asked if you should play it or watch a let's play? Do neither. It's not worth your time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
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  2. Morality Games Arcane Patron

    Morality Games
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Eh. Despite being initially excited I couldn't finish this game.
     
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  3. duanth123 Arcane

    duanth123
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    He speaks from the perspective of someone who's clearly played too much off the game and has given to the hate.

    Why not heed his earlier advice, which also happens to be my own.

    As an added note, the OST is pretty decent in some places, the battle animations are gratifying, and they've kept in bios for all the demons if that's your thing.

    I'll be giving SMT IV Final a shot. They've jettisoned that shit artist who drew monsters like Medusa last I heard.
     
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  4. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    You say that the setting isn't dreamy like Nocturne and SMT? What you really mean is that it isn't dreamy like Nocturne, because this is exactly in line with SMT1&2. You also fault the game for having "the dumbest of all SMT" alignment systems, because there is no hidden variable for Neutral points?? Nigga, did you even play any other SMT other than Nocturne? This is how it has always been. If anything I'd say Nocturne has it worst because it doesn't even have one. I have Metatron and Beelzebub in my end game party in Nocturne lol.
    Nocturne babbies are all the same. They all think that its an accurate example of the series without realizing that it's the oddball of the family.
     
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  5. e-mailio estevez Arcane

    e-mailio estevez
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    That's good news. I didn't necessarily mind having 2-D demons, but the clashing art styles of certain monsters kind of detracted from the immurshion as a whole. Medusa was an eyesore and I never had her in my party, despite having pretty decent stats.
     
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  6. Nikaido Arcane In My Safe Space

    Nikaido
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    Did you even read the message I was answering? Someone asks if it's as dark as Nocturne and Strange Journey, I answer the facts, whether you like them or not. He didn't ask if the game was like SMT1&2 you fucking fanboy crybaby. But like the typical idiot codexer, don't let the context get in the way of an opportunity to enter your little holy crusades for KKK. Who cares if Nocturne and SJ are "examples" of the series? There is no such a thing to begin with you fuckwit. SMT1&2 aren't any more representative either. Do they represent the Raido games? Digital Devil Saga? Devil Survivor? nothing is representative of anything here. SMT Strange Journey was intended as a mainline game at first, and it's not really like its predecessors either.

    And really, who cares about whether sequels are exactly like the very first game released 20 years ago? are you like those jap who clone the first 5 wizardries all day and ignore every single sign of progress and betterment? if anything SMT IV being exactly SMT1 with much, much smaller dungeons than the original would be a massive indictment. How is SMT IV not the worst game in the series, having the smallest, shittiest dungeons despite being essentially a dungeon crawler like all the mainline SMT games (and not like Persona which has more interactions outside of dungeons)?
     
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  7. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Typical Nocturne babby horse shit. Deflection, ad hominems and trying to weasel yourself out of the hole you dug yourself. The fact is that you said that SMT4 has the dumbest alignment system in the series as well as saying that it has a less strange setting compared to Nocturne which you equated with the whole SMT series when in reality it's the same shit as it has always been and had you any familiarity with the series you'd know that. Own it up, kid. You fucked up. You're fanboying a series you hardly know and spewing false bullshit.
    Also, no, no one considers DDS or Raidou to be SMT except some idiot westerners. There's nothing SMT about them except for the demons, but that puts them as close to the mainline series as Persona. Nocturne is so far removed from the mainline that it might as well be considered a oneshot as well.
     
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  8. Nikaido Arcane In My Safe Space

    Nikaido
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    Who even started the ad hominem (oh, my little kiddo knows some big adult words) here you fucking prick? you're just here to start a flamewar and I'm not here to feed your little ego. I know, it's hard when you have a shitty life, you need some escapism and for you that escapism takes the form of being an internet hipster and a feeling of superiority on shitting on things that came after your pet snes game.
    This is all I have to say, and in the ignore list you go, kiddo.
     
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  9. flyingjohn Arcane

    flyingjohn
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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Who's starting a flamewar? I just corrected you because you're spreading false information here by equating Nocturne with mainline SMT and making faulty claims of the series as a whole without actually knowing what the fuck you are talking about. You're the one who got into a childish shitfit and started throwing insults left and right. I bet your sausage fingers were trembling with righteous nerd rage as you hit the cheetos encrusted keys with anger as you wrote every single insult. It's funny, because you said that I was falling into the typical Codexer posting traps, but here I see you doing the exact thing you accuse of me. Instead of owning up your mistake you start tearing down the curtains like a little fucking infant. Be a man for once and just admit that you fucked up and were talking shit about something you have no knowledge about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
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  11. duanth123 Arcane

    duanth123
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    This is a well-staged reenactment of that thematic moment in SMT games when you realize the angels are just as depraved as the demons, more concerned with each others destruction, and that mankind's true survival/prosperity lies in self-reliance, despite perhaps a resulting uncertain future.

    So just play the damn game yourself?
    lol
     
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  12. Siveon Bot

    Siveon
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Neutral route ftw.
     
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  13. oddech_wymarlych_swiatow Arcane

    oddech_wymarlych_swiatow
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    :lol:

    Actually I was seeking an excuse to not wait for proper 3DS emualtion (buying 3DS is no option) and spoil the plot through let's play and got tempted. From what Nikaido has written I assume there're no radical steps into game's mechanics besides smirk-guaranteen-critical so I'm satisfied with watching JohneAwesome' LP on YT so far, thx bros for effort. Done with Neutral Route and plot is pretty good though predictiable - I guessed who 'Sister Gabby' and her 3 V.I.P.'s are once they appeared for the first time.

    And once I'm done with this, I'll lay my hands on Soul Fuckers yputube LP, I don't have any patience to play it in japanese on PSX emulator. Then there'll be original Devil Summoner walkthrough located somewhere on gamesfaq and... I'm finished with SMT franchise for now due to lack of games :/
     
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  15. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Fuck yeah heavy metal Minotaur is back.
     
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  16. Vikter Learned Patron

    Vikter
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    SMT4 Final looks so much better than SMT4. I remember buying it on launch day and finishing it in 3 or 4 days. It wasn't bad, but it suffered from lack of polish. Maybe because it was their first ambitious title on 3DS, or because they actually tried to appeal to non-SMT fans by not making an obscure clusterfuck of terrible writing and confusing maps.
    In the end, SMT4 felt like it could use a story-oriented DLC/expansion to flesh it out more. The alternate versions of Tokyo somehow felt much more interesting than the main one (something Final is seemingly adressing). Also, the fact that you're not a samurai but instead a teenage projection who gets superpowers and dresses like an idiot is a great return to form.

    Btw, I read somewhere that this one will actually have dungeons. That's great! Hope they make something like the Amala Labyrinth, or more consistently, something like Strange Journey's dungeons.
     
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  17. oddech_wymarlych_swiatow Arcane

    oddech_wymarlych_swiatow
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    Eridanus:bounce:
     
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  18. oddech_wymarlych_swiatow Arcane

    oddech_wymarlych_swiatow
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    There's already DLC for SMT:Apocalypse that includes... this is huge so don't click if you don't wanna spoil things.

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    the best persona is the first one for ps1. the western/european release is superior in script and execution of story than the original JP release. hard-core first-person view dungeons with (sometimes) above-average dungeon design, a great variety of ways to do battle including melee weapons and guns, and of course, your personas, and the best demon-negotiation system out of ANY of the persona games due to the dialog being both "real" and "comedic" without EVER slipping into "juvenile" or even worse, "pedestrian".

    it also features the irrefutably best soundtrack out of all the persona games as it borrows from shin megami tensei series and goes for a slightly more mature soundtrack full of evocative piano, pipe organs, opera wailing that is not played for jokes, and some pretty choice electronic ambiance tracks inside a lot of the dungeons. sadly persona 1 was the last persona game to feature a good OST. as good as persona 2 is its soundtrack was a herald of things to come.

    persona 2, also for ps1, features the best written story in the series and no surprise it also features the best written characters. spoiler as to why: because it's the only persona that has a Adult main cast. however the absence of the first-person dungeon design is SORELY missed as it utilizes the now Persona-staple overhead view for navigation... sad. very sad. the mechanics were also greatly dumbed down from persona 1 and any and all vestiges of the HUGE, HUGE influence that the SMT games had on the development of persona 1 are already disappearing in persona 2, and by persona 3... well, might as well be living on the moon.

    perosna 3 and 4 are atrocious garbage and feature no redeeming qualities. avoid. persona 5 also looks unbelievably horrible.

    EDIT: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DO NOT EVER, _EVER_, PLAY THE PSP REMAKES OF PERSONA 1 and PERSONA 2 !!!!!

    dumbed down, sanitized, casualized and their living hearts ripped out of each game's chest, blood dripping from the pumping thing while slowly ceasing eventually its movement while the sounds of the j-pop OST's that they inserted into the remakes of both games is heard.

    the mere fact that they replaced both games' OST's in favor of j-pop tunes is all of the information you need to make the decision that the remakes are abominations.

    they also edited and censored large chunks of the persona 1 and persona 2 innocent sin scripts, btw. There are many images that can be found via google showing side-by-side shots of persona 1 NPC interactions and the remake script is... well, it was fucking made for babies, whereas the original game script for persona 1 and persona 2 have teeth, nails, bite, heart and a fucking negro.

    truly the downfall and continued R A P E of the persona series is a sad and very informative lesson about all you really need to know concerning the future direction of the japanese video game industry... i.e. no good games are made anymore and what was good once is no longer palatable to the products of the decades-long manipulations of all those Faceless Corporations (tm) and their now fruitful masterplan of tardification of the people so that they would could develop inferior and intelligence-insulting products that would not be questioned by its consumer.

    this is the type of competently written dialog that is forever gone from the persona series. the dialog in the images you are about to see are from persona 1 and 2, original psx, and while by no menas is this shit high art, or hell, even basic literary; they are however full of wonderful and seemingly EFFORTLESS characterization of every single character you meet in the game and of course that includes the main casts most of all. Everyone in persona 1 and persona 2 is simultaneously nice, comedic, cryptic, mysterious, and forever straddling the line between "serious business story" and "satire? no... is it parody? i don't know. tongue-in-cheek it's not, however". that is a fine line but they managed it!

    from persona 1:
    [​IMG]
    just your average comment from the school's student president being interrogated on suspicion of demonic activity by our intrepid heroes.

    from persona 2:
    [​IMG]

    your run-of-the-mill high school principal harassing our fearless silent protanist. notice how not only is there usage of very mild profanity but how this simple dialog from hannya shows he might be a royal dick but he also has a sense of humor. except he's a total dick.

    from persona 1:
    [​IMG]
    ...ok, these two images are loaded. on the left Alana is complaining about having to go see the school doctor after the demon outbreak in the beginning of the game leads to the school forcing its students to receive medical examinations to see how they are holding up and if they are being affected. Alana is a sexualized stereotype of a character but she has probably the absolutely funniest lines in the entire game simply because she DGAF and she's dumb as a brick. it's perfect!

    in fact, Alana's contract-negotiations with demons are almost exclusively comprised of alana saying mildly alarmingly stuff like promising zombies that she likes to rub night-cream on her chest before going to bed if answering a question about herself from the demon. she also mentions how she always forgets to wear underwear. sure, it's absolutely and completely juvenile but it's all in the EXECUTION, and throughout the story Alana does receive a character arc where she ends up much wiser person. plus it's never down to a level of "fan service". she is just being herself. again, CHARACTERIZATION.

    ...ok, now to the right-side picture. That's... actually i completely forgot her name. Anyway, after the demonic outbreak and subsequent rampage and domination of the persona 1 heroe's town by these things the place has gone into complete lockdown with the national guard on the streets, families huddles inside their homes in sheer terror of the things bumping outside in the night and in that picture she has finally made her way back the High School after having gotten seperated and the students have posted guards on the school gates and demand a password as proof of both humanity and also to be given access to the school itself.

    first, the good: everything I just described sounds really fucking cool doesn't it? yes, yes it does. it's like... oh my god, it's like THE GAME'S STORY IS ACTUALLY COHERENT AND COMPETENTLY MADE!!!!! Imagine that... right? Now, to be fair, everything I just described is also a complete rip-off of the shin megami tensei games... they do the same thing. example: go play Nocturne on PS2.

    the bad: LOOK AT THAT MOTHERFUCKING RACIST AS FUCK POEM THE JAPANESE WRITERS CAME UP WITH!!!!!!!!!

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOLOL

    and you know of COURSE that it was censored and removed in the psp remake.

    to finish this, below you will see persona 1's Mark arguing with Brad about the danger of playing an occult game like "Persona", while Brad tries to bully mark into playing. The character of Mark is steadfast friend and protector but with a heart of gold, etc, and the character of Brad is the insecure narcissist with ego-problems and a burgeoning desire to control and manipulate people. Yes, both of them accomplish the fulfillment of such character traits in a mildly juvenile manner because they are, of course, juvenile high school students.

    [​IMG]

    mark challenges brad and blatantly insults him. I wish you to know that this dialog was censored/edited int he psp remake. He does not exhibit any sort of human-like character in the remake and instead speaks only in generic placeholder dialog that is only there to hammer home to the psp player every "important" plot point because while at the same being completely neutered so as not to offend, in even the smallest way possible such as censoring the motherfucking word 'stupid'.

    below, brad responds. Brad is an emotoinally stunted teenager who lashes out and is highly narcissistic. on the left is his ps1 response to mark, and on the right the PSP response. I will leave it to you to decide which is more I N T E R E S T I N G. no, not which is more literary, and no, not which has better grammar: but rather which of two serves the caracter better?

    [​IMG]

    for those who have played persona 1 they know that mark is incredibly sensitive about people thinking he is not intelligent because he continually flunks classes. Mark's usage of the word 'stupid' was 100% intentional. And sadly all of this subtext is completely absent in the remake. Also, i'd like to point out the psp remake's need to label brad, LITERALLY label him as "Smug Student", as if they themselves have so little faith in their script that they do not feel confident that their dialog by itself will be able to convey proper characterization, and thus they decided to label each character so that the poor, poor person playing the psp remake doens't have to wonder about the mystery of any of these character for even one second as it is all laid out already. BADLY.
     
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  20. aweigh Arcane

    aweigh
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    woops, wrong thread.
     
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  21. Hitoshura Educated

    Hitoshura
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    I'm not feeling it this time. As my nick suggest, I'm a big Nocturne fan. Strange Journey was great, not too far off Nocturne in fact. SMT IV has significant gameplay problems (see Nikaido posts) but also the game was getting more generic anime. That's a problem, it's a series that was doing mostly its own thing, while it was of course strongly influenced by anime.

    Now Apocalypse feels more and more generic and seems to be getting more edgy: looks there's poodles of blood and loads of demons! There's also lots of demons with titties, what's not to love? Sure, the series was always about cheap horror with supernatural events and beings but it seems that it has become a joke of a joke now...

    The series always was on a careful balance artistic and gameplay wise and it seems that newer games are trying their best to break that.
     
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  22. Hobo Elf Arcane

    Hobo Elf
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    Your problem with the game is that it's an actual mainline SMT game instead of a Nocturne sequel. Nocturne is so far removed from SMT1 & 2 that it's weird they didn't make it into a spinoff. Dunno what your beef with SMT4's gameplay was (the mechanics were superb, the best the series has seen yet, but the balance was off and so the game became easier for it) but all the Japanese hardcore SMT fans universally agree that SMT: Final/Apocalypse not only fixed everything what was wrong with SMT4, but it is considered to be the best mainline SMT game. Japan loves it even more than Nocturne.
     
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  23. HotSnack Cipher

    HotSnack
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    Is that truly the case? I wrote off apocalypse as I thought it was just more of SMT4. I guess I will keep my eye out for it.
     
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  24. evdk comrade troglodyte :M Patron

    evdk
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    Is the release schedule gonna be a hilarious FUCK YOU to Europe again?
     
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  25. Martius Liturgist

    Martius
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    Its Atlus. Do you even need to ask?
     
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