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Should the player char be able to become more powerful than the most powerful NPCs?

Storyfag

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Just soldiered through the entire thread.

Mrowak, DraQ, JarlFrank, a big :bro: for fighting the good fight guys!

It appears the system best suited to accomplish what we desire would be that of Warhammer FRP. Unlike the odious DnD, a Grand Master Knight Templar, the pinnacle of human warrior capabilities (without daemonic influence, becoming undead, etc.) will at best double his starting hit points and still be somewhat susceptible to a horrible death at the hands of a goblin armed with a shit-covered pointy stick. Possibly because any wounds would likely become infected :smug: At the same time the same Grand Master Knight Templar may face a mighty Demon Lord and stand a chance of surviving, even wining, provided he has the correct magical backup (items, blessings, etc) and uses it SMARTLY.

Too bad all to many CRPGs stick to DnD's system and its derivatives, leading to HP bloat AC bloat and insignificant abilities :(
 

Aeschylus

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Just soldiered through the entire thread.

Mrowak, DraQ, JarlFrank, a big :bro: for fighting the good fight guys!

It appears the system best suited to accomplish what we desire would be that of Warhammer FRP. Unlike the odious DnD, a Grand Master Knight Templar, the pinnacle of human warrior capabilities (without daemonic influence, becoming undead, etc.) will at best double his starting hit points and still be somewhat susceptible to a horrible death at the hands of a goblin armed with a shit-covered pointy stick. Possibly because any wounds would likely become infected :smug: At the same time the same Grand Master Knight Templar may face a mighty Demon Lord and stand a chance of surviving, even wining, provided he has the correct magical backup (items, blessings, etc) and uses it SMARTLY.

Too bad all to many CRPGs stick to DnD's system and its derivatives, leading to HP bloat AC bloat and insignificant abilities :(
Granted I haven't played D&D since 2nd Edition, but that never struck me as a major weakness of the character progression in that ruleset. HP stopped increasing very much after 10th level, it was very hard to gain stat points so AC tended to bottom out fairly quickly, and the most powerful monsters were *always* more powerful than the most powerful PC (see: the Tarrasque, the various powerful devils/demons, etc).

To respond to the question posed in this thread -- no, the PC should never be able to become the most powerful entity in the game world. What the hell is the fun in that? That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to challenge the most powerful characters or monsters in the world using clever tactics or a strong party, but when the challenge is lost it stops being a game and starts being just jacking off.
 

DraQ

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Just soldiered through the entire thread.

Mrowak, DraQ, JarlFrank, a big :bro: for fighting the good fight guys!
Return :bro: .

It appears the system best suited to accomplish what we desire would be that of Warhammer FRP. Unlike the odious DnD, a Grand Master Knight Templar, the pinnacle of human warrior capabilities (without daemonic influence, becoming undead, etc.) will at best double his starting hit points and still be somewhat susceptible to a horrible death at the hands of a goblin armed with a shit-covered pointy stick. Possibly because any wounds would likely become infected :smug: At the same time the same Grand Master Knight Templar may face a mighty Demon Lord and stand a chance of surviving, even wining, provided he has the correct magical backup (items, blessings, etc) and uses it SMARTLY.

Too bad all to many CRPGs stick to DnD's system and its derivatives, leading to HP bloat AC bloat and insignificant abilities :(
Actually, I think any PnP system is inherently ill suited for cRPG. Completely opposite strengths and limitations of both media.
 

Storyfag

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Granted I haven't played D&D since 2nd Edition, but that never struck me as a major weakness of the character progression in that ruleset. HP stopped increasing very much after 10th level, it was very hard to gain stat points so AC tended to bottom out fairly quickly, and the most powerful monsters were *always* more powerful than the most powerful PC.

The problem is not with the most powerful monsters, but with the least powerful ones. They become cardboards all too quickly.

Actually, I think any PnP system is inherently ill suited for cRPG. Completely opposite strengths and limitations of both media.

You are, obviously, correct. And I did not mean a simple transplantation of all the WFRP rules into a CRPG. But the designed system ought to have much more in common with WFRP than with DnD.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

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I read somewhere that a supposedly unwinnable battle in Realms of Arkania 2 (the large orc army that attacks you when you leave the city under siege by the front door) gives you some nice cutscene/dialogue/event/thingie if you manage to win it. I don't remember exactly because I've never managed to win it, but there being a reward for winning a battle that is supposed to not be won shows that the devs actually took into consideration that someone will try until he succeeds.

And this is why "unwinnable" battles should not be scripted to be unwinnable, but just be incredibly fucking hard encounters that, however, do not break the ruleset and can be beaten if the player uses creative tactics.

The Lord British Postulate alive and well...
 

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