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SIGIL - 5th episode of Doom by John Romero

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Venser, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Dayyālu Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Dayyālu
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    Nope, it reminds me of the last time I've played Doom3 and half of the doors had a goddamn Imp placed right after it, jumping immediately. I fear thinking someone did that dozens of times, truly a triumph of design in the already crappy Doom3.

    I don't remember surprise zero-distance Barons/Knights even in UV difficulty, usually there's always some space to let you maneuver even in cramped corridors (case in point, the teleport corridor trap in Tricks&Traps). It's simply shitty design and reload abuse.
     
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  2. Silva Arcane

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    So, people gave $166 to a cardboard box with shitty art and some floppy disks?

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Tweed Professional Kobold Patron

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    I think that's exactly what people expected for some reason. I think it's pretty good, but I wasn't expecting BTSX or Sunlust either.
     
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  4. lightbane Arcane

    lightbane
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    Pagb666 is making videos of the levels, for those interested. Dude is quite prolific and has done a ton of things, including Rune recently.


    It looks okay to me.
     
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  5. ironmask Savant

    ironmask
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    I'm waiting for Civvie to make a video on it. Maybe he will have more positive things to to say than Gman.
     
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  6. iZerw Arcane

    iZerw
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    BTW what about that shooter Romero is (was?) working?
     
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  7. TZ3K Arcane Patron

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    I thought most people learnt by now gman is a poser and casual as hell.
     
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  8. udm Arcane Patron

    udm
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    I watched pagb666's gameplay videos on SIGIL, and I'm not noticing the problems that gggman has been griping about, especially the lack of resources. In fact, I'd say pagb666 was spending ammo quite excessively (I get very triggered seeing someone spray a chaingun in a room with a baron and caco), but he's still quite well-stocked by the end of the map.
     
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  9. fantadomat Arcane Edgy Wumao

    fantadomat
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    I skimmed trough those videos and it looks like garbage,there is a lot of ledges with no space for any manoeuvring,a lot of dark places,and the music is terrible,i almost fell asleep at level 4. For me doom is about fast moving,killing hordes of monsters and dodging shit. Not about slow moving in fear of falling from some ledge and dying..
     
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  10. Kutulu Arcane Patron

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    Ehhh everyone bought it for the cardboard box and nobody thought romero would come up with something brilliant, the box looked cool and romero despite all his flaws is a pretty oK dude.
    I thought it probably looks dope between final doom & quake in my shelf...

    Doom's map design was surpassed by modders/mappers long before 2000.
     
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  11. Maggot Arcane Patron

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    Seems fine so far. Probably wouldn't be half as good without the Buckethead music.
     
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  12. axx Savant

    axx
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    I wouldn't pay to much attention to ggman's reviews. He either loves or hates games entirely, there is nothing in between, and with Sigil it's no different. He wanted to breeze past all the levels so he can churn out a 'review' only to be disappointed that a minimal effort is actually needed.
     
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  13. Astral Rag Arcane

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  14. Multi-headed Cow Magister

    Multi-headed Cow
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    Jesus. Some of his complaints are indisputably true (A lot of the maps are dark as all fuck) but there's a lot of being a mega-shitter in there too. As one example, he bitches about fighting a baron with a shotgun (Showing the end of map 3) when there's a secret to pick up a rocket launcher right fucking there, even hinted at pretty heavily by the fact that they put a box of rockets in front of the switch to open the path to reach that baron. Also a fair amount of enemies you can ignore (Cyberdemon in level 2, even the level 2 final ambush, etc) and encourage infighting so you can deal with limited resources (The cacodemon reveal when you open up on level 3 as a good example, the caged imps are super easy to get infighting with the cacos). Hell, I got out of level 3 on UV with a full stack of shotgun shells, 100 bullets for my chaingun (From a secret in level 2, maybe the guy wasn't looking for secrets enough since you get megahealth and mega armor from them too), and 100 health/armor. I'm absolutely fucking not some crazed Doom master and I barely play maps outside of the original games, but maybe that's why Sigil's been alright for me so far.

    Edit: Do want to agree there's some plain bad/dumb stuff though. Like in map 4 the middle "Rocks descend into lava" path. If you start off on that your first thought is generally going to be "Oh okay I need to haul ass and run along them as they're dropping" which would somewhat bite you in the ass because of all the enemies, but tolerable. The big kick in the balls though is when you reach the end of the path and find a key-locked door, and if you ran down that path before finding the key (Completely plausible since the key is slightly hidden along that lava and enemy filled path) you're just SOL and either have to reload or run on a bunch of lava. And even if you get the key if you try to make a run for the door, the door takes a solid 15-20 seconds to open so you'll have to wrestle with a bunch of demons.
    It's not 100% BULLSHITZ but it is a particularly dickish and hard part.

    Edit 2 because I'm a dumbass and keep adding on to shit: Particularly hard and dickish part in a vacuum, I should add. It gets more flaccid and vaginal if you go down that path, get your shit slapped, then set it aside and, FOR EXAMPLE, use the invulnerability sphere in a secret on one of the other paths. Just saying. Just gotta be balanced.
    :littlemissfun:
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  15. Tweed Professional Kobold Patron

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    I didn't bother to watch most of it, but did he seriously miss that rocket launcher? I personally didn't use it in that tight spot, I just ran from the baron after I got it since the exit was right there save rockets and health that way.
     
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  16. Astral Rag Arcane

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  17. Tweed Professional Kobold Patron

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    Well, those sure don't look worth writing home for.
     
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  18. schru Arcane

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    I've played and finished the digital version (with Buckethead's music) on the Hurt me plenty difficulty. All in all, the episode felt underwhelming compared to the two maps Romero released some time ago. The flow was decent, the difficulty rather below that of episode four, and I suppose there were a few nuanced aspects to some maps. As I suspected, GmanLives just failed to articulate whatever his frustration with the maps was—there were neither too few narrow ledges, unavoidable damage from monsters waiting behind doors, nor not enough ammunition, in fact I was never in low on either ammunition or health. The problems with darkness seem best resolved by switching to the software renderer, but Romero should have stated that in the Readme file.

    This is no to say that I was to dissuade from playing the episode. It's all right, but no more than that. The encounter design feels different and fresh enough, though I suppose I should mention that I only ever played the official Doom games (and only fairly recently at that) without diving into the fan creations. The secrets seemed a bit too easy to find, I think I only missed three out of all the maps (including the secret one). Buckethead's sound track was nice in itself, but it didn't feel like it fit the size and pace of the maps too well. It would better fit some manner of more expansive and grandiose designs.

    SIGIL.wad alone includes its own MIDI music. I've recorded it on the Sound Canvas VA in the SC-55 mode, as it seemed most suitable, for any one interested. The files don't have any trailing silence, so they should loop as intended in the game (it doesn't seem like any of the tracks have any elaborate loop-points that would lead to some part other than the start of the track, but I didn't check them all too attentively):

    https://www.mediafire.com/file/lbeea6jw37w1ezl/S-G-L_MIDI.zip/file
     
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  19. schru Arcane

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    Update: I've started again on Ultra violence, with the software renderer, and with the MIDI music, and it's much more fun. Outside the game the MIDI tracks seemed pretty mediocre, but they match the pace of the gameplay and the atmosphere of the maps rather well. The software renderer also goes a long way to make the placement of enemies in dark areas much more legible and generally improves the aesthetics. Before, I meant but forgot to say that the maps looked strangely weak in terms of æsthetics, but they look much more interesting now with the software renderer.
     
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  20. Silentstorm Learned

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    Other people have been playing, including a former Prince Of Persia speedrunner(the classic one):

     
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  21. Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd Arcane Patron

    Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd
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    Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I've played through Sigil on Ultra violence and here's what I think. It's not the greatest, but very solid WAD. Its level design reminds me of Thy Flesh Consumed, i.e. unlike the first 3 episodes it's not very atmosperic and thematically consistent, but gameplay-wise it's inventful and clever. It has a lot of traps, geometry tricks and verticality. Some encounters are not exactly fair, but all of them are doable. Secrets are really cool. To sum up: I would not call this episode the greatest ever, but it fits perfectly into the original quadrology and is miles better than Doom 2.
     
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  22. schru Arcane

    schru
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    I've finished it on Ultra violence now too and I must say it was more fun. I feel I've been a bit too harsh on it at first, though I still don't think the episode is as good as Romero's contributions to the original game.

    A few unrelated comments: as I suspected, the problems with many places being too dark were resolved by playing in the software renderer; I appreciated the use of teleporter kills; the MIDI tracks indeed complement the pacing of the maps quite well and it's worth replaying the episode to hear both sound tracks; there was indeed less ammunition at my disposal at this difficulty and I almost run out a few times, but it made things only more interesting because I had to be more careful with which weapons I used; the final map still feels rather underwhelming; the episode lacks its own ending music, either in MIDI or from Buckethead, though it replaces the introductory and intermission tracks; the exit-walls that only require the player to touch them (not use) can be a little frustrating when you intend to kill all the monsters in a map; they might have been more interesting if there actually were some final areas that you could only just barely run through to get out before getting killed.
     
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  23. Bad Sector Arcane Patron

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    I've played the first four maps so far, but i need to go to sleep because work :-/. I managed to 100% the first three, but couldn't find an item in the fourth... depending on the mood tomorrow i might try again or just accept it and try to finish the pack.

    So far i do not see the issues Gman mentions in his video, the difficulty is fine (i'm playing on Ultra-Violence) and i do not think i ever had much of a problem (if anything, i *think* E4 is harder and there are tons of much harder FPS games anyway). Brightness-wise it is fine, i never had the feeling i do not know what i'm looking at, but of course i'm using the software renderer. The tight corridors aren't really much of a problem, there is enough space to zig-zag for "guiding" the enemies' targeting - i only died once from a Baron of Hell due to not having enough space, but even that i think was my mistake and i could have avoided him. The narrow paths with chasms below are also wide enough, but you *must* disable autorun (i think Gman is using it in his video), otherwise you'll fail due to momentum.

    I actually like the more puzzle-y level design, you can't just run and gun in there (so if you are expecting something like Painkiller, Serious Sam or Doom 2016, you wont find it), you need to pay attention to your surroundings and explore the map. Exactly how i like my FPS levels :).

    Of course those are my impressions from the first four maps. I've bought the "premium edition" from the site which comes with the Buckethead soundtrack which i liked so far. Hopefully the rest of the maps will also be as good.
     
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  24. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Bad Sector Gotta love your username, wish you'd post more often but to each his own. :)

    As for me, I haven't given Sigil a try yet, so no real comment from me at this time...but checking out some of the videos the first thing that (literally) sounds off is the music - it just doesn't feel right.
     
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  25. Multi-headed Cow Magister

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    I definitely did have to switch to the software renderer for map 6. Not just a bunch of really dark areas, a lot of really dark ambushes too. Software renderer does help tremendously in giving you just a tiny bit of vision while not outright cheating, I actually noticed the secret with the BFG in map 6 in software mode that I completely missed before since the clue was a slight light difference.

    Also gotta say I sorta dig the midi version of the music. I've been flipping back and forth between them on the same levels and I'm not sure which I prefer, the midi music does feel more Doom-appropriate but I dig the full stuff too.
     
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