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Skyrim - Bethesda, you should be very, very proud.

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by Twinfalls, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Ed123 Arcane Patron

    Ed123
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    No, 80% undead plus the odd necromancer/bandit stragglers being killed on the first level is correct. The best dungeons tend to be those with larger boss rooms and traps everywhere. I actually prefer crypts to dwemer ruins since the latter murder my fps.

    edit: the simplistic puzzles are also a nice touch.
     
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  2. kris Arcane

    kris
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    I said in another thread, maybe even another forum that they chosen ambience over realism. I am okay with that even if it is a bit silly. Also all places with snow look very bland and uninteresting.
     
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  3. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    Indeed, Bethesda should be very proud that they released yet another piece of shit that retards will lap up like they usually do.
     
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  4. Sure. Just look at NWN2, Kotor2 and New vegas.
     
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  5. revealer Augur

    revealer
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    I meant Gothic, not Gothic II.
    FrenchFag
     
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  6. Ed123 Arcane Patron

    Ed123
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    I wouldn't call NV simple, but they did manage to fuck up the engine even worse than Beth, so :smug:
     
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  7. l3loodAngel Proud INTJ Patron Edgy

    l3loodAngel
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    So now the consoletards are the benchmark of RPG quality? Seriuosly... 0/5
     
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  8. Elwro Arcane

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    Is it still the case that a master-locked chest at the end of the given dungeon may contain 5 gp and slippers because the game thinks your level is too low?
     
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  9. Ed123 Arcane Patron

    Ed123
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    Not as bad as Oblivion, but yeah. Lots of shitty levelled weapons/apparel that are two+ tiers below the stuff you're already using. Meanwhile, I went to a dungeon where there were dozens of bodies on the ground containing 100gp each.
     
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  10. Elwro Arcane

    Elwro
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    I'm wondering why they don't fix this, then. You'd think overreliance on loot scaling would be an issue mentioned in reviews / disliked by gamers, but apparently it's not the case...
     
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  11. Ed123 Arcane Patron

    Ed123
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    Well like I said it's not nearly as bad as Oblivion. There's good vendor trash. But even major side-quest rewards are utter crap. Shitty steel waraxe of +5 shock damage at level 25-ish, when my companion is running around in ebony? Fuck off.
     
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  12. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
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    Well said, OP. The genre is evolving. Those RPG "dungeons" of old were so impractical, and I'm a practical person living in a practical time. Bethesda have managed to bring the dungeons up to date and make them believable to a practical person like me. That alone deserves the highest praise. Dungeons in Skyrim even have practical shortcuts so I don't waste my precious time or, God forbid, get lost when turning around. I mean, if I'm in the middle of a corridor and I turn around, say, three times, how do I know which way is the entrance? Making a dungeon practical means I don't have to worry about getting lost anymore and can merrily proceed to the next, no less practical one, knowing that another practical shortcut awaits me there. Skyrim's dungeons are everything Daggerfall's dungeons wanted to be if not the technological limitations of the time that forced the designers to make dungeons needlessly complex to compensate for the lack of unique immersive atmosphere and breathtaking looks. Good thing Bethesda is moving on with the times.

    :thumbsup:
     
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  13. Andyman Messiah Mr. Ed-ucated

    Andyman Messiah
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    This is the amazingest Skyrim thread.
     
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  14. halflingbarbarian Scholar

    halflingbarbarian
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    If you are just dissing Twinfalls' comparison to Daggerfall, your use of contrast is really weird. So there is a shortcut back to the start of dungeons in Skyrim. That should be insignificant as a worry of practicality compared to linearity in dungeons. But with linearity, the shortcut to the entrance bit is a non-issue, since the design is already impractical in linearity. And if not getting a shortcut back to the entrance of a linear dungeon rewards you intellectually, there is definitely some problem with you. Don't pick on non-issues and make it a contention, and your argument might stand.

    The relevant difference between Daggerfall and Skyrim dungeons on the level of practicality is that although both are 'impractical' - Daggerfall ones are architecturally/practically unsound, Skyrim ones are linear and non-realistic as a place of dwelling/worship/burial/etc - Skyrim dungeon design does make an effort to include sleeping areas for the inhabitants, coffins where undead spring from, webbed nests/cocoons/egg sacs filled caves where associated creatures live, dining areas, forges/anvils/alchemy tables/self-sufficiency placeables according to type of inhabitants, guardian rooms in crypts, moats in some makeshift underground forts, and so on. It is a limit of the Daggerfall engine, because Daggerfall was made on the premise of an open world roguelike, hence the complexity of generated dungeons don't make sense.

    So, Skyrim dungeons are more 'practical'. More intellectually rewarding/demeaning between the two? I don't know. But both have their strengths.
     
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  15. halflingbarbarian Scholar

    halflingbarbarian
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    It's just a representation of the Codex dichotomy of the apologists/retarded (as mentioned) gamers who have forgiving/optimistic approach to current-gen RPGs and those who don't accept mediocrity which is in itself a dealbreaker and trying to make the former appear naive/clueless. The world moves on!
     
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  16. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
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    Oh wow.

    Never trust the judgement of a tranny.
     
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  17. piydek Cipher

    piydek
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    I agree with pretty much everything Twinfalls has said. I've played only about 5 hours so far and it's ridiculous how much superior this thing is to Oblivion, which was unplayable for me. It's almost as if this was the next real TES game after Morrowind.

    For me, quests in this game are way better than in Oblivion, they keep me interested. World design is FAR superior to Oblivion. Art direction is amazing and i think Skyrim has really impressive graphics. Sure, technically it's nothing spectacular at all, but art is just RIGHT. The game nails down the atmosphere as well. I love being in this world, just as i loved being in Morrowind. As much as places and NPCs felt fake in Oblivion, here it's all much better. They even pulled off the casual banter between NPCs right this time, it doesn't seem forced, mechanical and glitchy as it did in Oblivion. Even writing so far is OK.

    I'm playing on PC but since it was designed for consoles interface and controls-wise, I'm playing on xbox360 gamepad 3rd person point of view and it just works for me this way.

    Some people say this game steals a lot from other games. Maybe it does, but it just WORKS. Is Firefox a bad browser because it stole a shitton ideas and features from Opera? Of course not. I recommend trying to play Skyrim. Really impressed with the amount of incline over Oblivion and that they managed to put out this game in amidst of crap that comes out today in mainstream gaming. I'm really glad this thing sells well. I never thought i'd say this, but cheers Bethesda, well done. [​IMG]
     
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  18. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

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    What? Lol.
     
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  19. FatCat Educated

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    Give examples of similar dungeons ? please ? From what i have seen all of them are unique , there maybe are some short portions that resemble other dungeons , but on the bigger picture all are unique enough to feel fresh.

    Overall if Skyrim will be modded heavily it has a potential to be on par with Morrowind at least for me.
     
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  20. halflingbarbarian Scholar

    halflingbarbarian
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    Sarcastic criticism -> Unravel sarcasm -> Criticism appears to be founded on irrelevant detail -> Provide more relevant comparison on relatively same context as sarcastic criticism -> Conclusion -> Read?
     
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  21. piydek Cipher

    piydek
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    Agree. Pure "vanilla" Skyrim is good enough for me. Looking forward to the mods.

    It's not as bad as Oblivion scaling-wise, but it'd also profit a lot from something like OOO. Oblivion had problems that absolutely no mods could do anything about: the incredibly crappy MQ, voice-acting, shit geography-design, crap dialogues and dull dull dull world/atmosphere. Skyrim has none of those problems. It's a good platform for modding.
     
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  22. Black Cat Prestigious Gentleman Magister

    Black Cat
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    I believe he's basicaly saying both have their strenghts, and the perfect TES dungeon would be a mixture between Daggerfall's awesome emergent skill based gameplay and Skyrim's cool mood and atmosphere, and detailed pretty graphics. He's kind of right.

    Though I would prefer it if we did just stop this separation between the open world and the dungeons, and just made the open world a huge dungeon and be done with it. Ultima Underworld is were it's at. Chances of something like that happening in the current industry are null, though.

    I would kind of hope KKKodex would have more than a few people willing to make awesome and complex dungeons once the tools are released, but this place's mostly about lazy fucks bitching around so I'm not holding my breath.
     
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  23. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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    Still missing the point :lol:
     
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  24. Admiral jimbob gay as all hell

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    Andhaira
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    I'm really tempted to dive into Skyrim modding once the tools become available, but being in the latter half of uni, it's all a question of time. I modded Morrowind a fair bit and I'd love to get back into the scene now that I've learned my classic RPGs and hopefully picked up some design ideas by osmosis.
     
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  25. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

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    Sorry, but I didn't even use the "contrast" you assumed I used. Your post had nothing to do with mine.
     
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