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Skyway VS EVIL PUBLISHER!

MetalCraze

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Alpha Protocol wasn't enough?
 

:Flash:

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Well, it's important to recall why we're posting here. There is a claim going around, that publishers systematically commit fraud and break their end of the contract. That's obviously not the case - or the industry would be more in shambles than it already is. All we have seen so far is that Developers realize they sign shitty contracts way too late. But no actual fraudulent behavior by the publishers, apart from some extreme corner-cases.
Many cases never land in court, because how is a developer supposed to prove how many copies a game has sold?
Or in the words of the Lawyer of the Tolkien Estate suing New Line: "These hugely popular films apparently did not make any profit! We were receiving statements saying that the producers did not owe the Tolkien Estate a dime."

raw said:
I didn't ask for lawsuits involving developers suing publishers
You didn't?
raw said:
In your bubble maybe. Here in the real world if you break a legally binding document, not only will you be drawn in front of a court

raw said:
but there is no developer in this world that wouldn't go to court over a breach of contract. but you're free to point me to the numerous examples
raw said:
So you found one example of a breach of contract case, where a shitty east-european doesn't see royalities by hist shitty east-european publisher. Does that make it the norm? No obviously not. If it was, the net would be full with these stories.
 

FeelTheRads

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It seems like in their zeal to be a video game developer, they forgot they were running a business.

This is why men in their 30s have no families and no life outside their jobs (video game industry).

EDIT: I guess raw might have a point.

The obvious conclusion is that if you're not a good business and can spot bad contracts or bad publishers you're a bad game developer. Cool story, bro.
 

DragoFireheart

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It seems like in their zeal to be a video game developer, they forgot they were running a business.

This is why men in their 30s have no families and no life outside their jobs (video game industry).

EDIT: I guess raw might have a point.

The obvious conclusion is that if you're not a good business and can spot bad contracts or bad publishers you're a bad game developer. Cool story, bro.

So being a good game developer and having a good business model are mutually exclusive?
 

FeelTheRads

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You didn't?

Obviously now that he gets examples, they're all lies. Publishers are never guilty, not even of their own deeds. Oh wait, only Activision because raw knows those are evil. But even those are not THAT evil. Publishing popamole is the fault of the developers who make popamole. They never requested any developer to make popamole. If only there were people who didn't make popamole so all these AAA publishers could fund them.
 

Kane

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Many cases never land in court, because how is a developer supposed to prove how many copies a game has sold?

Huh? How is that relevant. You sign a contract, and that contract is full of :words:. If any of those :words: doesn't match up with what is happening in reality, you can go to court over this. The reason mankind invented contracts is so that involved parties don't do whatever the fuck they want, but what is actually written in the contract.

Or in the words of the Lawyer of the Tolkien Estate suing New Line: "These hugely popular films apparently did not make any profit! We were receiving statements saying that the producers did not owe the Tolkien Estate a dime."

Game publishers != Movie industry.

raw said:
I didn't ask for lawsuits involving developers suing publishers
You didn't?

No. Neither did I allow you to truncate my sentence. From here on out all my sentences are to be quoted in full, by you, :Flash:, or your responses are summarily being ignored.

raw said:
In your bubble maybe. Here in the real world if you break a legally binding document, not only will you be drawn in front of a court

raw said:
but there is no developer in this world that wouldn't go to court over a breach of contract. but you're free to point me to the numerous examples
raw said:
So you found one example of a breach of contract case, where a shitty east-european doesn't see royalities by hist shitty east-european publisher. Does that make it the norm? No obviously not. If it was, the net would be full with these stories.

I know what I wrote. I still wasn't asking for allegations but for the court rulings with regards to what we have discussed earlier. That companies go to court over BoCs does not need to be proven... and has been proven by all the links anyway. Again, we're trying to find out whether publishers committing fraudulent behavior damaging publishers is the norm - or not. How hard is that to comprehend?
 

FeelTheRads

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So being a good game developer and having a good business model are mutually exclusive?


Yes, that's exactly what I said. :retarded:

It's not exclusive, but it's unlikely. Game developers are game developers not businessmen. How the hell can you be guilty if the contract you signed fooled you, I don't know. That's why I said that not being a good businessman must mean you're a shitty developer, according to you.
 

DragoFireheart

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How the hell can you be guilty if the contract you signed fooled you, I don't know.

Fooled by a contract?

We're not talking about those EULA things you sign for when you log onto a online game. We're talking about a business contract where money is involved. If a contract "fooled" you within that context then maybe you deserved to get burned so you can learn from it.
 

FeelTheRads

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whether publishers committing fraudulent behavior damaging publishers is the norm

Umm, actually we're not. Or we weren't. The whole thing was whether publisher interference affects the games. I say it does, you say it doesn't. It seems like you win, though, based on yeah
 

Kane

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How the hell can you be guilty if the contract you signed fooled you, I don't know.

A contract cannot fool you. It's a piece of paper with words on it and you are expected to read and comprehend the content of the words, before you sign it. Once you have signed it you are required by law to do whatever the fuck is in the contract.
If you do not read or don't understand the content of a contract but still put your sign under it YOU LOSE and are fully responsible.
 

DragoFireheart

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If you do not read or don't understand the content of a contract but still put your sign under it YOU LOSE

32332868.jpg
 

Kane

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whether publishers committing fraudulent behavior damaging publishers is the norm

Umm, actually we're not. Or we weren't. The whole thing was whether publisher interference affects the games. I say it does, you say it doesn't. It seems like you win, though, based on yeah

Also wrong. The big topic is "Big publishers denying publishers their ideas." and one subtopic we're discussing right now is "Publishers breaking contracts and damaging the developer".

And why on earth would anyone be so stupid and discuss something as trivial as publisher interference affecting games???
 
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The meaning of words on a piece of can be twisted and turned at will by a skilled enough lawyer. In fact, these contracts were most likely min-maxed so the words can be interpreted in at least five different ways.
 

FeelTheRads

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The big topic is "Big publishers denying publishers their ideas."

something as trivial as publisher interference affecting games???

:retarded: You don't even know what you're arguing against anymore.

That "trivial" thing is fucking essential. Because when a publishers tells you to add or remove features from a game, that means the game is affected. And in no way or form can it be but the publisher's fault for those features being added or removed.

In fact, these contracts were most likely min-maxed so the words can be interpreted in at least five different ways.

Nope. A game developer must have the same business sense as those who do that for a job. Otherwise you suck and you make bad games.
 

Kane

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The meaning of words on a piece of can be twisted and turned at will by a skilled enough lawyer. In fact, these contracts were most likely min-maxed so the words can be interpreted in at least five different ways.

Words can be twisted by a lawyer, but words can also be crafted by a lawyer. Like those on a contract f.e. It's not like these things are written by amateurs.
 

Kane

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Nope. A game developer must have the same business sense as those who do that for a job. Otherwise you suck and you make bad games.

Yes. A game developer is a business. What is this? "I run a studio, therefore screw everything! I don't need know no marketing, or financials or comprehending the stuff I put my name under!"
 

FeelTheRads

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Words can be twisted by a lawyer, but words can also be crafted by a lawyer.

You mean the same lawyers who write the contract then go around and twist it? Definitely nothing wrong with that. Fucking amusing how you continue to contradict and argue with yourself. Retardation of the highest degree.

Also funny how the examples given to you are not enough, but the same shitty examples you and Skyway have (hurr durr banner saga hurr durr shadowrun) are enough to prove that developers always lie or "paint themselves in a better light".
Btw, in the cases where the publisher sues the developer you don't automatically believe the publishers are lying or trying to paint themselves in a better light, I assume?

Because "devs can be just as greedy talentless fucks as those imaginary evil publishers", so there are evil developers, but all evil publishers are imaginary.
 

Cowboy Moment

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You so silly FeelTheRads, when Activision tried to hack the computers of IW heads to find an excuse to fire them and weasel out of their contract, they were just employing successful real world business acumen.
 

MetalCraze

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How the hell can you be guilty if the contract you signed fooled you, I don't know.

Fooled by a contract?

We're not talking about those EULA things you sign for when you log onto a online game. We're talking about a business contract where money is involved. If a contract "fooled" you within that context then maybe you deserved to get burned so you can learn from it.

No what FeelTheRads says is that game developers are retarded.

FeelTheRads said:
You mean the same lawyers who write the contract then go around and twist it?

Any real world examples of these conspiracies? What about gamedev lawyers? Why can't they twist stuff back? Or is it only Evil Publisher's Lawyer exclusive skill?

FeelTheRads is like a game edition of Cleve. Publisher Brother controlling everything it's like 1984 in my every game! Bet he's crying about imminent gaming market crash in other threads.
 

Kane

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Words can be twisted by a lawyer, but words can also be crafted by a lawyer.

You mean the same lawyers who write the contract then go around and twist it? Definitely nothing wrong with that. Fucking amusing how you continue to contradict and argue with yourself. Retardation of the highest degree.

What? Contracts are written by lawyers so you can't twist them. That's the whole fucking point you retard. Go away and annoy someone else.
 

LundB

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It's not like it's every lawyer's job to find loopholes in contracts and articles of law :roll:

Uh, yeah, it's not. They also try to make contracts with as few loopholes as possible so that the other side's lawyers can't do that.
 

FeelTheRads

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Contracts are written by lawyers so you can't twist them.

Contracts in question are written by the publisher's lawyers and it's the same lawyers who can then interpret them. Even skyway understands it.
Or of course, you'll now tell me that developers are actually the ones who write the contract too, and they sign it, and they make the game, and basically publishers are just fooled out of their money.

Go away and annoy someone else.

PLZ AGREE WITH ME I DONT LIKE PPL WO DONT AGREE WITH ME STOP ANNOYING ME WITH LOGIC BROFIST BROFIST BROFIST LOL

No what FeelTheRads says is that game developers are retarded.

I'm sure you, as a genius master businessman can spot bad contracts with the corner of your eye. If you can't, you're retarded. Period.

What about gamedev lawyers? Why can't they twist stuff back?

I'm sure they can, if they can afford the same kind of lawyers publishers do.

Or is it only Evil Publisher's Lawyer exclusive skill?

Fuck off, retard, with your "evil" shit. , because no one here claimed all publishers are "evil" or that any of them is, but just doing their fucking job, which in turn affects the job of developers. Choosing to side with a developer apparently means you think all publishers are evil, though.

Of course, since you have the power to decide who lies and who doesn't, I assume you can tell me which developer says the truth and which doesn't. Right? Because you definitely don't believe they all lie? Otherwise you'd be just like us who imagine evil people.

Or what the fuck, continue inventing things about the opposition and fighting those and never address what the opposition said, that's how you win the internets after all.

Bet he's crying about imminent gaming market crash in other threads.

What the fuck are you talking about? Yes, please bring in other threads. How about that one with the list of your favorite games? That should tell a lot about what developers you trust.
 

MetalCraze

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FeelTheRads said:
I'm sure you, as a genius master businessman can spot bad contracts with the corner of your eye. If you can't, you're retarded. Period.
No there is a profession called 'lawyer' for that. Have you heard about it?

I'm sure they can, if they can afford the same kind of lawyers publishers do.
And they can't? Good lawyer doesn't cost million dollars per hour and one hour is more than enough to read any contract.

because no one here claimed all publishers are "evil" or that any of them is
Really? You cry for days now about how publishers force poor Shadowrun devs to cut out inventories and make infinite ammo since Kickstarter money ain't free or some other hipster shit you spew.

Even your last post is "zomg publishers just hire lawyers to fuck poor devs". Bet they twist their mustache and laugh maniacally while doing this.
 

MetalCraze

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Well where would a 100-something men developer studio operating 8 digit budgets find a few thousand dollars to afford a lawyer? Devs live in cardboard boxes you know.
 

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