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So, anyone playing League of Legends?
- Thread starter Wulfstand
- Start date
I'm still butthurt
I know, son. It'll stop someday.
The Vault Dweller
Learned
I've seen some Oriannas do this. Good disruption with the ult and a decent shield. Other than that though she needs to use her other abilities for damage. I guess you could say she's AP carry/support in that way.
Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
Not good enough. She deals the same damage as some other supports (Janna) that have other advantages she doesn't (best disengage in the game). She even deals less damage than some (Sona) who have better support abilities and roughly the same power level of ultimate.
If you want shield + great ult - Janna. If you want damage + great ult - Sona.
So yeah. Shouldn't stop you from doing it though. I suspect it's more fun that the above two
If you want shield + great ult - Janna. If you want damage + great ult - Sona.
So yeah. Shouldn't stop you from doing it though. I suspect it's more fun that the above two
Juul
Learned
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2011
- Messages
- 472
Malzahar is considered sub-par because 1 item hard-counters him, and we're at a point where most competent mids can afford to rush it. It costs 1440g.
Twitch is considered sub-par because he has a retardedly low range, mediocre base stats and base scaling, and is countered by an item that costs 125g. 400g if you're feeling frisky. Admittedly he's good if enemy lanes are already losing, pressured and choose to run instead of just gibbing twitch. He's decent at catching low hp runners and ganking junglers though (or supports trying to ward - Dora the Explorer style). He just melts in teamfights due to low range and no innate escape or defense at all aside from a slow that's negligible, except if he has 5 stacks on the target.
I guess he's pretty lulzy though.
Twitch is considered sub-par because he has a retardedly low range, mediocre base stats and base scaling, and is countered by an item that costs 125g. 400g if you're feeling frisky. Admittedly he's good if enemy lanes are already losing, pressured and choose to run instead of just gibbing twitch. He's decent at catching low hp runners and ganking junglers though (or supports trying to ward - Dora the Explorer style). He just melts in teamfights due to low range and no innate escape or defense at all aside from a slow that's negligible, except if he has 5 stacks on the target.
I guess he's pretty lulzy though.
Emily
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2012
- Messages
- 3,068
Twitch is good for almost nothing, any team that knows how to play will just counter him to sink hole
Low range, weaker hp then most carrys ( dont know if buffed), and really shitty toolset. Only thing going for him is stealth, and that is somewhat useless against a competent oponent
especialy in higher elo ranges, every player that knows something about the game wards, with thitch or without
Low range, weaker hp then most carrys ( dont know if buffed), and really shitty toolset. Only thing going for him is stealth, and that is somewhat useless against a competent oponent
especialy in higher elo ranges, every player that knows something about the game wards, with thitch or without
Reject_666_6
Arcane
That's not to say you don't ever find Twitches. Watching Oddone, Dyrus and Rainman stream, rarely you do find some Twitch players, and this is in the 2100+ GRUNKER level. There's even a few guys who consistently play other very rare champs like Katarina and Poppy at that level. The only champ that I've never seen in a serious high Elo game is Eve.
Twitch can snowball out of control really easily if he lands a successful gank early. It really depends on how much help he can expect from his lanes, as many people pull a potato and rage incoherently instead of lending a hand when they see twitch setting up a gank in their lane.
It's really symptomatic of the sheep mentality that I've been raged at by a 1/9/3 urgot for picking twitch when I was 7/5/17 and made sure top and mid had walkover lanes. I died a few times early on bot because whenever I went there to gank, urgot either ignored us entirely or in one case walked into a bush and bluepilled when I destealthed and began shooting.
Juul
Learned
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2011
- Messages
- 472
I am unsure as to how a mentally challenged Urgot says anything about sheep mentality.
How is this any different than any top-tier jungler. Lee Sin will snowball hard. He will probably be able to gank a lane succesfully, even if his laner is retarded. Same goes for Noc. 1 or 2 early ganks will snowball him to early 6, and from there it's basically a free kill every time his ult is up. Udyr goes god mode. Shyv goes god mode. You get the idea.
What I'm trying to say here, is that it makes no sense to say that doing well with a champion is an argument for its viability, if another champion does the same thing better. (Gimmicky stealth does not make up for every other part of his kit)
I have plenty of doubt. Look at how long I (unrightfully) doubted Shyvana. I also claimed (rightfully) that Alistar was a great champion when everybody hated him.
But Twitch has been proven time and against to be complete crap in almost all situations. The fact that Ulminati even uses the argument "but he's crazy when fed!" makes me think we're back to level 1 LoL-arguments.
Also, Berekän:
Den som kun ta'r spøg for spøg
Og alvor kun alvorligt
Han og hun har faktisk fattet
Begge dele dårligt
Den som kun ta'r spøg for spøg
Og alvor kun alvorligt
Han og hun har faktisk fattet
Begge dele dårligt
Twitch is - under the right circumstances - very, very good.
In thise case, the right circumstances are teammates who are willing to help you set up a few early ganks. Twitches level 2 ganking kit at level 2-3 is among the best in LoL. It features a very strong slow, a nuke in expunge that will finish off a LOT of players with 3-400hp worth of damage after they flash to their tower and the ultimate gapcloser (stealth) for initiation. Furthermore, since the prevalent opinion seems to be "lol, twitch sux!" he is an unusual pick that will simultaneously catch a lot of players off-guard and cause people to underestimate him.
Twitch is crazy when fed. Many jungers are crazy with fed.
BUT WITH COMPETENT TEAMMATES TWITCH IS ONE OF THE CHAMPIONS YOU WILL MOST CONSISTENTLY GET CRAZY FED WITH.
As an additional bonus, the enemy team will often sink huge amount of sums into pink wards you can harvest with an oracles. Many of these wards will be planted outside their lanes, meaning you can kill them at no risk to yourself. This in turn means that even when you're not ganking, you have a passive presence in all lanes as people drain their wallets to ward more often and using more expensive wards than to protect against a shyv, udyr or lee. Furthermore, twitch has the same effect as a Sorakabot-Eve in that he forces the enemy team to play extremely defensive even when he isn't there.
If lanes become too defensive to gank, a twitch with wriggles is infinitely sustainable in jungle without blue/red (can go to his team) and has clear times comparable to trundle/kitty stance udyr. In a teamfight, he is able to position (almost) prefectly without havign to worry about being pinged by the enemy team before CC is already flying and his first 7 shots thanks to his ult will have the longest autoattack range in the game and hit multiple targets. (Spreading that infinity edge love).
I know you distrust any build that isn't used in a competitive tournament, but seriously, give the guy a chance. Check out phoenix0000ff on jewtube, he does jungle twitch videos against good players. While he hasn't got a ranked ELO himself, he does play normal draft picks and about 75% of his opponents in the last 3-4 videos (I looked them up) have ELOs in the 1500-1700 range. About 3 weeks ago he carried some rioters on livestream. Considering that phoenixblue is rocking players with a higher GRUNKER level than yours on a regular basis, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the rat if I were you.
In fact, going off on a tangent for a bit, I think a common mistake that many, many people do is pretend they're 2k+ ELO players when trying to determine what is viable and right for them to do. Realize what bracket your account is playing in, predict how good your opposition is going to be (probably about as good as you) and play accordingly. That's why I always got Mejai on Morgana when we played together. (I could rely on my opponents making enough mistakes that I could fill it). Stealth WILL catch the people you play against off-guard. If you practice a bit, you WILL get horribly fed more often than not. And you WILL be able to sit back and say "8 mins, 5 kills. GG, game won by twitch". (Granted, the game won't be over by then. But if you can give all 3 lanes 1-2 kills, you certainly have the advantage and it's very much your game to lose at that point).
Also, Berekan reads Spanish, not Danish.
Nice strawman, but I have my own builds for my champs. I don't even follow guides. It would mean ruination for me mid in our ranked games if I just blindly copied builds from teams that have those builds because they correspond to a playstyle and an overall strategy that our team couldn't copy even if they tried.
My mains in ranked are Galio, Morgana, Annie, Cassiopeia, Ziggs and Brand, and we're testing Veigar at the minute as a counterpick. Only one of these is used consistently by tournament teams, the others are niche or used less often.
We use Galio because most people aren't that used to playing against him, and I do well with him against my consistant bane LeBlanc (I'm so shit at playing against him). Playing Galio also means we can "trick" people into picking Kassadin.
We play Morgana to enforce a "neutral" lane - that is, don't lose it, just win it in farm and gank a bunch.
We play Brand and Annie for our team-fight comps (though we're moving away from this strategy).
We play Cassiopeia and Ziggs for lane dominance.
Veigar we're testing because we frequently seem to go into late-game, amongst other things.
Neither of these strategies except the Cassiopeia one is very popular on high ELOs, though Galio is used sometimes as a counterpick and Morgana is sometimes used too.
The opponents we played back then are complete scrubs compared to a decent ranked team on EUNE. So were we. Mejai's is win-more anyway, the game's we won with you having Mejai's we would have won without Mejai's too.
Alas, Piet Hein doesn't translate well, and it was the most fitting quote for the situation. Indeed with the above you seemed to have miss the point of the quote. You have fun with your Twitch, seriously. I'm not saying OMG SCRUB DON'T PLAY TWITCH. I'm making a case that he's a bad pick if you want to win in a "serious" game (i.e. ranked). This goes to an extreme degree for solo queue (because your team mates probably won't fit their playstyle to him) but it also goes for 5v5 on any decent ELO because people there will know how to play against him.
He is easy to counter, utter crap in team fights, his ganks are not that threatening and if he doesn't get fed he's completely useless. Playing Twitch is a complete gamble on your opponent's lack of skills. If he doesn't do very well, your team is fucked. And this is point, isn't it?:
Other junglers with as good level 2 ganks, as good a presence in the jungle and faster clear-times will be an asset to the team even when they get a bad early game. Twitch on the other hand becomes a colossal ball and chain.
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2009
- Messages
- 3,110
Au contraire, I'm not the one that feels the need to misquote anyone to prove my point. Not that I wanted to prove anything, anyway, because there's no sense arguing against that kind of tricks, I never tried to pose an argument.
Your point was the same as Ulm's, that me and Juul are just tools that blindly follow whatever flavour of the month advice comes from the pros. I've stated both in response to you and Ulm how that is complete bullshit. If you want to argue without the strawmen, sure, let's go. If not, well then what's the point?
I don't build it on her anymore. See, I'm adjusting my build to the opposition I face. I don't face 2k+ players, so my strategies revolve around the 1400-1700 crowd I usually play with and against. I was going to adress the rest of your post, but seeing as you only bothered to cut out and selectively respond to the non-twitch part of mine, I decided not to bother.
[edit]
I see Grunker edited his post after I made mine. But meh. His mind is made up and at this point it seems nothing short of someone featured streaming a twitch game on solomid is likely to change it.
In other news, our NA ranked 5-man premade broke 1450 elo yesterday with a jungle twitch leading in KDA.
As do I, what's your point?
Because fuck you if I'm going to continue this discussion in a reasonable manner when you and Berekän seem more interested in telling us WHY we don't like Twitch (you're just tools of the pros!). Scratch the idiotic strawmen and my interest in this discussion might return. Before that though, I'm fine with just yelling each other if that's what you want
Also, in case you didn't notice, this:
Is a short but concise respond to your points about Twitch.
This is why I usually add an [edit] tag when I make edits in my posts. Pointing out things that were added in after someone wrote their response is pretty dickish. I love refreshing a page after I make a post to see the post I responded to grow in length.
This is a response to the edit you just made in yours.
This is a response to the edit you just made in yours.
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