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So how's Darghul coming along?

Jora

Arcane
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Mar 14, 2003
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Yep, good to have you back in action! Can't wait to have my hands on Darghul. :)
 

Jora

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Any progress, Wolf? Are you still thinking the game might be finished in a month or two?
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
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Messages
331
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Shanghai
Well, I did quite a lot of work over past two months, and finished hundreds of points on my to-do list. By now, the C++ source code encompasses about 260,000 lines (over 8 megabytes). (Printed out, that would be about 4,350 pages, or, on line printer paper, a paper trail of 1,030 meters or 0.64 miles.)

The game looks really good by now. It will include all of the features discussed in this forum (including construction of houses and trade).

But it will still take several months to finish everything (and since Beta-testing doesn't make sense while the program is still incomplete, that means it'll still be some time before I'll release a beta version, too).
 

Jora

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Thanks for the answer, Wolf. All the features that we discussed? Wow, I'm impressed! Let's hope the features work well and people will be able to appreciate them.
 

Erik

Novice
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10
Great to hear this!

I look forward to being able to play it once you are done!
 

Gold

Augur
Patron
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May 18, 2007
Messages
504
Dead State Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Sweet, I can wait longer still, especially since you added lots of the little details we suggested.
 

Nickos

Novice
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May 20, 2008
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Poland
Damn, these forums are....Abandoned! I hope that Darghul won't be like these forums. Abandoned. So Wolf, maybe you will make a to-do list with features, bugs and percents of its implenetion\fix so we know that you are still working on it?
Nickos Off
PS. I'd like to beta test :lol:
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
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Messages
331
Location
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Abandoned: Not at all. DARGHUL is simply a very large project, which is being completed by, mostly, one single developer (who also has plenty of other work to do besides). So it's unavoidable it takes a lot of time.

Forum: I guess all that could be said about Teudogar has by now been said (and I've also recently published a giant FAQ (www.teudogar.com/teudogar_faq.htm), which probably answers every imaginable question on Teudogar).
And on DARGHUL, not much can be said until people see the actual Beta (which still needs a good deal of work before it's worthy of being released. When it's ready, I'll post in on the forum, and I'd really appreciate if you test and criticize it).

Progress on DARGHUL: Over the past two weeks I've dealt mostly with installation, order process, web site, shop system, integration with payment services, order fullfillment, user interface, documentation, download system, and so on. By now I've returned to work on the game itself, and am currently working on the trade and construction systems, and am continuing my battle against the hundreds of minor incompleted points still on my to-do list (which maybe I should actually post).

Anyway, it's a continuous process, which will still take more time to complete. (And I also need to travel once again to East Asia, or perhaps Latin America, for a month or so in between.) Sorry for all the delays, but basically, creating a role playing game takes an inhumane amount of work; and a small company, or even a single indie developer, will unavoidably need much more time to do this work than a large company with hundreds of workers would.
 

Gold

Augur
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Messages
504
Dead State Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Well Wolf, if I had the cash I would fund your game making skills. But as a new suit I would decide you have taken too much time and you must ship it now. :wink:


/will wait evermore.
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
I am quite excited, as I really dug Teudogar. :) Best of luck!
 

Nickos

Novice
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May 20, 2008
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13
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Poland
Great to hear that you're doing the game at quite high speed. Good luck, mate!
 

Adam P

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Oct 10, 2004
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63
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Silly American
Wolf I admire your dedication to this project, and am very pleased you have not let the rush of getting the game out interfere with the quality of the game, details are so important! I'm sure it will be worth the wait!
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
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Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
Sorry for my delayed reply (I just got back home after a week visiting family and friends), and many thanks for your encouragement! (and for your patience).

Indeed, I'm still working on DARGHUL, and am progressing slowly but steadily, finishing still-incomplete sub-systems, fixing particular weaknesses (e.g. recently I replaced the combat MIDI music with a proper MP3), and generally improving, polishing, and finishing the damn thing.

Unfortunately, I can't work full-time on this project. Also, I need to travel as much as possible while it's still fairly affordable. So in August I'll be in Madrid, Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Santiago, and Sao Paulo, and probably in November, in Kunming, Chengdu, Chongqing, Guyang, and Hanoi. In September, October, and whenever I have a couple of free hours in between, I'll be energetically working on DARGHUL; however, it'll still take months to complete everything.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
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Female Vagina
But old school MIDI > mp3's :(

Good to hear that you're still trucking. I wouldn't worry too much about flying anyway. As soon as we all have electric and hybrid cars in 10 years there will be plenty of oil left for the airplanes. :)
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
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Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
I agree. However, short term, at current prices, world-wide oil demand still seems to be rising, and supply actually seems to be falling (declining production from existing fields, not too many new fields coming online); I think this'll mean higher prices. And I think it'll take a good deal of time until affordable alternatives are developed and mass produced.

In the meantime, I wouldn't be surprised to see our government introduce restrictions on 'unnecessary', fuel-wasting traveling. And in 5 to 10 years, given European demographics (more people living off tax money than paying taxes) and resulting political developments, I'd expect my currency to lose a good deal of its purchasing power, particularly vis-a-vis the currencies of capitalist countries in Asia and elsewhere.

On the other hand, right now, the Euro is really overvalued and buys a lot (much more than it does in Europe), air fares are still ok, and one still enjoys fairly unrestriced freedom of movement. I think it's a good idea to make intensive use of that.

--------------------------

MP3 - MIDI: Well, actually, I'm keeping the brief piano 'leitmotif' music passages in MIDI format, since I think this is something MIDI does ok (pure piano sounds, that is). But the combat background music was awful in MIDI (violins/brass - OMG), and the new MP3 sounds quite good (even when somewhat reduced in quality for the sake of downloadability).

(BTW I've also made it possible for you to use your own MP3s instead of (some or all of) the default MP3 and MIDI tracks included in the game: Simply copy any MP3 files of your own choice into the DARGHUL Saved Games folder, rename them to 'combat.mp3', 'victory.mp3', 'bless.mp3', and so on, and the game will play these files in place of the defaults.)
 

Garnstylez

Novice
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
1
So are you back again already?
If so, hows it going?
One question... can you tell me the original (first) planned release date?
Because I remember seeing it once... a few years ago ;)
I cant await this game...
The only game I would wait for that long ;)
you may not have that many buyers, but those who are must be true fans ;)
Hope you finish up soon ;)
greetings
Mike

p.s. (i think i was 13 when I first played the game... and just turned 18 this august ;) )
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
Mike: thank you for this!

Well, originally, I'd planned to simply import dialogs and maps from DARGHUL's original MSDOS version into the Teudogar engine, and instantly release the result.

But then I decided to put some real work into it in order to create a really great game; while, unfortunately, most of the time I lacked the time to work more than two or three hours per day on it.

I really appreciate your patience.
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
Ok, I'm back in Germany.

I used to think Latin America deserved its reputation for chaos, crime, and decay, and police statism - but after exploring most of Santiago, Buenos Aires, Montevideo, and a good part of Sao Paulo on foot, I found these cities not much worse, and in many regards significantly better, than what Europe has become nowadays. And Buenos Aires is fun; and Sao Paulo both dynamic and enjoyable. I've always liked Latin culture and people, and do so even more after this trip.

-------

Now I've resumed work on DARGHUL, and will fully dedicate myself to this project for the next couple of months. (In fact, after this long pause, I'm really enjoying being back at my programming and game designing work.)

My most immediate goal is to finally release a first intermediate beta version, so that everybody who wants to can have a look at, test-play, and criticize the game.

In order to get there, I'm currently working my way through a long list of minor stuff, and am finishing sub-system after sub-system (all the minor details I left out up to now). This will probably keep me occupied for a good number of weeks; but by then, most systems should be smooth enough to allow for a first test.

(BTW, as I wrote in a different thread, I suppose that after so much waiting and expectation, most people will probably be disappointed with the actual game. I think it's quite nice, and it'll offer some functionality and gameplay, but it's certainly very far from being the best RPG ever written.) Anyway, the feedback I'll probably get when I release a beta should help me ameliorate whatever you may perceive as its main weaknesses.

Thank you for your continued interest in this project!
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
So, how's the game coming along, or have you made any progress, Wolf?
 

Wolf Mittag

Wolf Mittag Software Development
Developer
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
331
Location
Shanghai
I've made a lot of progress over the past couple of weeks.

- The trade system is almost complete now (including user interface):
1) There's Locations Overview Screen listing all storehouses, shops, caves, mines etc that you've occupied, rented, or set up. For each location, all the inventory therein is listed (useful not only for trading but also for keeping track of your accumulated booty); and what goods are being produced (e.g. by workers you hired); what goods are brought there or moved away from there (by caravans); and how much is sold at this location.
2) A Caravan Screen lets you set up trade routes by selecting stops on a map and choosing what kinds of goods to drop or pick up at each stop (e.g pick up all raw materials at a mine, drop all raw materials at your workshop, pick up all finished goods from your workshop, and drop them at your shop in a different city).
3) An Accouting Screen gives you an overview of your costs, income, and profits.
In all of this, there's a lot of information to deal with (locations, map, caravan stops, goods and so on). In order to keep everything simple, each screen will only display the immediately relevant info at first; yet whenever you move your mouse cursor over anything, it will automatically output all available details.
The entire trade system may sound somewhat techy and geeky, but in practice it's extremely easy to use and fits very well into the game.

- Raw materials: I've added the basic ingredients of all game world objects to the game (e.g. iron, copper, tin, wool, clay, corn, wood, animal skins and so on) as well as intermediate production stages (e.g. bronze, iron chain links, woollen thread, leather). You can find and produce most of these goods by yourself (e.g. use pickaxe in cave, or use axe with tree), or have others produce them (e.g. mine copper), or buy them (e.g. wool or corn from farmers).
Within the game, all of these materials can be handled as combined objects, similarly to the way silver coins are (i.e., you don't have 20 single 'piece of raw iron' objects in your inventory, but rather, just one single 'raw iron' object with the number '20' next to it).

- Hiring people. The game now places random persons into each city's tavern: Some are just travelers with information or goods to barter, but others are craftsmen you can hire. These people will stay in the tavern for a while, then move on if they aren't hired. Anyone you hire will move to your shop or storehouse (if you have any in that town), and will then proceed to sell the goods you've stored there to the town's people on your behalf, or (if skilled) will produce finished goods from your raw materials.

- Summoning and ruling demons. I'll admit I took this route in order to simplify things (no daily schedules, wages, need for food, problems with crossing rivers etc) - but it works beautifully within the game: Provided you know the spell and have learned their language, you can summon demons and order them to transport goods, mine raw materials, guard your possessions and so on. Keeping a demon under your control requires a certain amount of magical energy every turn; so the number of demons you can 'hire' is limited by your Magical Energy skill (which turns increasing your magical energy into yet another gaming task).

- Increasing your magical energy: Apart from practice, and expensive coaching by mages, I've added a tiny parasitical creature that lives of your blood (and thus costs you life points every turn) but at the same time significantly increases your magical energy, by an amount corresponding to its size. So apart from learning about, finding, and waking up such a creature, you'd also have to try to stimulate it to grow, which would require regularly treating it with something expensive, perhaps (I'm currently implementing this) a mixture of wine and the ashes of burnt diamonds.

- Mining: Most caves now contain some raw materials you can mine (or have a demon mine for you), usually coal or iron, but also other kinds of metals or minerals (sometimes even gold or precious stones). (This is randomly assigned whenever you start a new game; so the kind and amount of material to be found in a cave will be different in every game.) Mines can become exhausted; so you won't be able to live forever off e.g. a gold mine you've found.

- Producing goods: If you have the necessary skills (e.g. handcraft in general, or for some items specifically smith or tailor) and raw materials and tools (in your inventory or surroundings), you can produce almost every object within the game world by yourself. Or you can hire a skilled craftsman to produce whatever goods you want on your behalf (for your own needs or for selling to the townsfolk). (I'm currently working on the user interface where you tell your worker what to produce.)

- Selling goods: Goods stored in containers within any house you own or have rented within a city are now automatically sold to the city's inhabitants (if you have hired someone to do the selling on your behalf). (If you don't want to sell some select items, you can place all of them into the same chest and click that chest's Don't-Trade-This button.) How much of any good can be sold depends on the city's size and character, and on your asking price compared to the city's general price level.

- Taxation (I'm currently implementing this): When you've learned the language of the Orcs, the inhabitants of any Orc village will (when defeated) surrender, and you can demand taxes from them. You could then send one of your caravans to pick up the collected tax (food, materials, herbs, etc) every week or so.

- Building houses: You can already cut down trees, clean sites, and build walls; and everything is prepared for handling the related info (location of doors, size of roof etc). I still have some work to do with having heavy materials (stone etc) delivered to your building site, and the user interface for building roofs, and adding doors, furniture etc.

The idea behind most of these additions was to allow you to make proper use of the game world (the cities, townsfolk, taverns, caves, woods, Orc villages and so on). Almost everything you find or encounter now has a real use (though often only after some investment on your part). Also, there are now a lot more uses for your money, the booty you capture, and your magic skills. And there's now a lot more to do within the game. I wanted to offer you different courses of action (beyond following the main plot, dungeoneering, and collecting booty), and diffent ways you can develop your character and spend your gaming time.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Wow, sounds really ambitious! With all these features, I expect that Darghul will consume quite a lot of my time when it comes out.

Everything you listed is interesting and something that hasn't really been done in other RPGs. Taxation seems like great way to add depth to orc villages. As was the case with Teudogar, the more you can come up with features regarding the behavior of enemies after they've been defeated, the better. It's not the combat that makes things interesting, it's how it affects the world and the parties involved.
 

Igor

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Jun 26, 2005
Messages
31
Location
Rand of the lising sun.
Hey wolf, if it's not too late to add new features there's something i've been thinking about that i feel was missing from Teudogar. And that's the ability to train your skills in other ways than simply using them (for example walking around with lots of stuff to increase strength). I think it would be great if you could add some exercises to increase the attributes of your character, like doing push ups or pull ups or other stuff like that to increase strength, or jogging to increase stamina and so on. This would of course need some kind of limit imposed on it to prevent the player from making a super man in just a few hours. You should only be able to work out every 2 days or so, and every time you do it, your stat increases a little. So it should take a few months of game time to max the attributes. I think it's a bit silly that the only way to increase strength in teudogar was to walk around with a full inventory. And it didn't seem to have much effect anyway. I walked around with like 40kg for several weeks and my strength never went up. You should actually be able to raise your stats to really high levels in this game by working at it a little. It wouldn't have to be very advanced, you just select what exerciuse you want to do from a menu, and then the screen goes black like when you sleep, and some time passes. That would be it. But like i said earlier, if you don't have the time that's fine. I just thought i'd throw this out if you had a few extra days with nothing to do.
 

Igor

Novice
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Jun 26, 2005
Messages
31
Location
Rand of the lising sun.
I also have a question about mines. You mentioned that eventually mines will become exhausted. So what happens if you exhaust all the mines in the game? How will you get more materials to make more stuff? Or will there always be some way to aquire more materials even after the mines are gone, by buying it from a merchant or importing it? If not, you should really add that. Because it would really suck if you used all the ore to make stuff that you then sold, and then you break your armour, or lose it and you need to replace it, but you can't since there's no more ore and you sold all your finished goods.
 

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