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So I heard you like Betrayal at Krondor...

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Hekateras, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Blu3vib3 Educated

    Blu3vib3
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    Aw! Thanks! I was actually thinking of making something of a series of mini-comics for the various bits of headcanon I concocted in my current playthrough. I was initially thinking of doing a similar little vignette for each character, but I immediately got stuck on Patrus... as most of my thoughts during this run regarding him have been, "17% Defense!? You make me hate old people!"

    Right now I have some vague outlines for a piece about James musing about his origins and Lysle's in the wake of the Upright Man's death and one about Goarth and Cullich's interactions while Owyn's passed out.

    Take your time. I was a totally dork and put several minute visual flourishes in that piece that only people obsessively playing BaK would pick up on. :)

    I previously had an account but recently junked it for the sake of getting rid of my primary user name. I ought get back on look into the Midkemia fic there. I was initially on as it was one of the only places I could find a few Ultima fics...

    ...thinking on it now, it somewhat occurs to me that my zeal for deciphering moredhel might be rooted in my being an obsessive fan of a game series that makes you memorize 1-3 different character sets if you want to read the games' freaking signposts.
     
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  2. Sceptic Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Sceptic
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    Divinity: Original Sin
    The rights issue is very muddled, to the point that Feist himself cannot write the last 2 Krondor books. Besides, he really shouldn't approached directly if you want a good Krondor game; rather get Hallford an Cutter and keep Feist as far away from the game as he was from BAK.
     
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  3. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    OMG do it do it do eeeeeeet

    I never even noticed that the game's 20th anniversary is coming up. This is the year for tribute, people!


    Except he's writing the last Krondor book right now, at long last, it's called "Jimmy and the Crawler". So what gives? I've been trying to needle him for info on the mailing list, but all he and Neal are saying is that they can't talk about it.

    Here's what I gathered from the mailing list:

    Not sure why he can't just go and get his act together, put some pressure on his agents, "it's the game's 20th anniversary and it will help promote me publishing the book series finale" or something.
     
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  4. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    Are there any details at all about "Thief of Dreams", the true sequel to BaK? Neal Hallford posted once here on the Codex IIRC, but all he mentioned was that the game "would continue the story of Owyn".
     
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  5. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    I just got thinking about Betrayal at Krondor's plot.

    There were a few marginally related - if not irrelevant - plotlines and characters in BaK that left you confused as to how they related to the big picture. Sometimes they did, but never too directly.

    The Crawler. The Abbot. The Upright Man. Tomas.

    I feel they were included only to make Feist fans feel that the game was at all related to BaK, but otherwise were just filler that didn't necessarily impact the outcome of the story. Am I wrong?
     
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  6. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    Owyn's ascent to spymaster and chief magical advisor to the Kingdom, you mean. :D I've heard something about how some of it would have been set in Kesh, and some guy on the team who, while having been working on it before it got cancelled, commented how it was going to be totally awesome. :'(

    The Crawler and the Abbot are actually BaK-exclusive, as is the dragon statue at Malac's Cross. Those things don't appear in the novels until the novelisation. The Crawler was obviously part of a larger plot that would've been continued in Thief of Dreams, some greater intrigue more or less unrelated to Makala and the moredhel, I assume.

    Tomas... Well, if you involve Pug, you involve Tomas. Period. It makes sense to go to Pug's oldest friend if Pug goes missing, and it makes equal amounts of sense that Makala would have ensured that THAT way was unvailable, as well. (Why hello, conveniently improbable Valheru-affecting poison!)

    The Upright Man doesn't even make an appearance in BaK, except insofar as he's mentioned in relation to the Mockers.

    Anything else? O_o
     
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  7. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    So there was a video game fanart contest on another forum and guess what I picked? Twenty years of living/drawing, and I never actually painted these guys. Until now. O_O

    So. Um. Hope you enjoy (and don't complain overmuch about babyfacedness and what not).

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    Why not make a painting of the priestess of the Temple of Eortis? :oops:
     
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  9. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    Because I'm a straight female?

    I guess I finally know what you people really want a remake with high-res graphics for. XD
     
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  10. circ Arcane

    circ
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    Heh. Yeah, too much western fanart animu faced. We're talking about an older dark elf who has the highest strength score of any of the other warrior characters. Good coloring though.

    I wouldn't mind a remake if it did away with the shitty pseudo 3d view and deleted 99% of the quests, which are really bad fetch quests with no other reward than moneys.
     
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  11. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    Hehe, I was actually kidding. I'm fairly certain that with that angle, no legitimate complains about the face one way or another can be made, and I certainly don't see how the rest of the body comes off as anime-based. I mean, the length from shoulder to shoulder is a little more than twice the width of his head, for regular people it's usually just one and a half heads. I think a lot of you seem under the impression that he must be Schwarneggeresque or something, but come on, that's really not feasible - neither going by the original art nor considering how the moredhel live.

    Yeah, sure, delete the optional content that tends to connect to the main plot in subtle ways, why the heavens not? XD
     
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  12. RK47 collides like two planets pulled by gravity Patron

    RK47
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    Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
    I don't understand why would anyone want to cut down on the optional content. Although it may seem like a fetch quest, I appreciate the amount of lore text they gave in game. Better than Mass Effect 3 Citadel FedEx given from overhearing a bunch of dudes talking about what they need.

    "Damn, I could use some carrots for tonights dinner."

    "HEY I HAVE A CARROT . HAVE SOME!"

    Thanks bro! +500 XP +$1.50
     
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  13. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    Another thing: items were actually important on Krondor. Getting the spider (and figuring out what it does, which i missed like a putz the first time i played), that quest that gave you FOOD ffs, a new scroll, even money (since there was quite a lot that you could buy early that made your life easier).

    The game is not like BG, where you are swimming in magical equipment soon, in money shortly thereafter and there are no fucking useful money drain items in shops except weapons and potions you never use (to save them) anyway - better for this i think i've only seen in Realms of Arkania.

    I think this is a function of both the consumable items with more uses than combat, generally giving out little money (a weight for gold would be even better, considering the gems) and very few worthwhile weapon shops - so you're excited about finding a Lims- Kragma sword for instance.

    More, there were rather few quests, and the best that what they gave was MQ information and lore.... it's a different way of doing things that bioware's regurgitations of plot points in the main quest path which you necessarily go through. It takes a bit more effort than Torment in the dimension of "distance", less deep generally in "plot" (for instance figuring out all the chess moves to win against du whatever; vs figuring out the relation of the story of ignus, the story of the burning of the ward from reekwind - which you could sell to Catcher-of-tales - and the inscription about the mage in the tomb in Torment), but i was happy about it.
     
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  14. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    It was on my second playthrough that I realized one could get an elven sword very early in the game by going into the harder dungeons first, instead of continuing along the main quest.

    (By my third playthrough, I was powergaming so badly that I purchased Greatswords blessed by Kahooli at Chapter 1 itself, but nvm)

    It felt so satisfactory, that I found something that could push me far ahead on the loot scaling curve, and I only had to make the effort for it. Most of the time, you find ordinary weapons, but work real hard and you'll find some higher quality weapons sooner than expected.

    The excellent balance in this game shows the balance of even post-1996 RPGs in poor light.
     
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  15. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    Going to Sethanon and Dimwood early was very hard but rewarding. Though in case of Dimwood the most powerful spells only spawn in the later chapters. Solving one quest in Dimwood with the poisoned well would also help a lot near the end of the game.
     
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  16. circ Arcane

    circ
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    Well you can't see the goatee, but he looks like a 15 year old with gray hair. So animu. That said, it's a bit like the character drawings by some jap guy who's name I forget, who did most if not all characters in the early Final Fantasies. Just more color and thicker brushes.

    Anyway, subtle subquests that connects to the main plot.

    There's some guy in some faraway place that wants to hear a joke. You have to walk a hell of a long way for that joke. I forget the locations, but LaMut is the second stop. Reward -- money. Doesn't have shit to do with main plot.
    The grain quest, good reward, but doesn't have anything to do with the plot.
    Kat or Kit? wants a statue. It's easy as hell and you get one of the best swords for it, although that's not what she had in mind as a reward. Ok, she wants to kill the Crawler, not really relevant to the main plot.
    Ok I could go on, but most of the quests are just mostly nods at the books and minor characters. Nice if you're pedantic and care about books. They are in the end, some of the worst examples of Fedex. If it wasn't for quick temple travel, this would have been fucking ridiculous.

    Also forgot to mention, that retarded inventory system would have to go. Jesus christ, half my inventories consisted of fucking rations. Forget trying to prep up with Naphta? for every fight, especially when you're down to two characters in Sog Soghoth? or something.
     
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  17. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    I believe there are some very powerful parties of witches camped out in Dimwood in the first chapter. And without good spells, the early party is unequipped to fight them. I don't even know how I got past them. Six witches who cast sleep spells? All of them far away? Getting initiative still only means you can reach three of them at best. Only luck can help you win there.

    Summoning items are the key to beating large groups of spellcasters in BaK. Summon a dog near a witch, and she can't cast spells. What a relief!
     
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  18. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    I recall a fight with 3 witches in Dimwood. With good Stealth skill it should be doable. Having the initiative means winning half the fight before it starts.

    That's why the 6 Moredhel spellcasters at the end of chapter 5 are so hard. Patrus has an abysmal stealth score, making it almost impossible to gain the initiative, leading to frequent reloads.
     
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  19. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    Yeah, it's why I put a lot of efforts into finding weed boots and a lot of efforts into training stealth from the first chapter itself.

    One Codex user told me I probably do this only because I suck at the game. Pretty strange statement, considering that getting the stuff that will guarantee you a won fight before the fight even starts IS the game in BaK.

    There's little wiggling room for battle map tactics with two or three fighters. Exploring to build your characters was way more important.
     
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  20. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    Without conversations and stuff you could deliberately activate, going out into the world and solving miniquests was the only way to get to see the characters interact. I still remember the Quest for Ale and Owyn nearly going all trigger-happy-I'll-SHOW-you-a-fireball on some random skeptical dude. Good times.

    You can actually see the goatee, and I still don't get how you think an elf is supposed to look ancient, especially when about 1/6 of his face is shown. Also, what the hell is "animu"? >D

    Naphtha.

    Sar-Sargoth.

    What kind of inventory system would you want then?

    Concerning the grain quest: I could be wrong, but I think the grain shortage had something to do with the guild war in Romney? The guild war you have to navigate past to get to your next objective? So, you know. It's not "related" in the "OMG the same mastermind organised all this" sense, but it does add context and flesh out the world.
     
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  21. circ Arcane

    circ
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    The most memorable interaction for me was walking along talking the usual fantasy crap and then all of a sudden in uh Kenting Rush maybe knocking on a house where they wondered if I was looking to sleep with them. Why would they want a duck? I forget how it went but it was unexpected.

    Anyway, guild war doesn't I think start until chapter 3 or so, and you can skip off the path and do grain quest as early as chapter 1 if you're good.

    Also, Patrus has an abyssmal everything. I couldn't believe you went from a nicely developed Owyn to a pile of shit so fast. Even though at points Patrus was supposedly said to be the equivalent of a demi-god. Yeah right.
     
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  22. abnaxus Arcane Patron

    abnaxus
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    Yeah, Patrus doesn't even start with Skin of the Dragon. Worst fucking character ever.

    Locklear & James are pretty shit too, though, once you get to play with them again. Owyn & Gorath become much more powerful with all the fighting they do in Chapter 4.
     
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  23. Monocause Arcane

    Monocause
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    You really don't know what you're doing now. If you'd like to stay here I suggest posing as a tranny, otherwise your life will most likely get unbearable. Keep in mind that even trannies aren't exactly safe here. You never know when a broken Nazi starts PMing you.

    Your art is fine, though you might try pouring some more testosterone into the characters and into the drawing style. It's too cutesy right now.
     
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  24. Hekateras Educated

    Hekateras
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    Funnily enough, if you're interested in reducing the likelihood of my life getting unbearable, you could've sent this via PM and avoided drawing attention to it. Appreciate the thought, though.

    If someone's going to make a big deal over this, well, it's their wasted time, not mine.

    Yeah. Muscles. *skulks off somewhere to steal a corpse for reference* Maybe it would make you feel better to know it's an improvement over my attempts to draw humans of a couple of years ago - they all looked anorexic.

    Could you elaborate on what you mean by "cutesy", though? I've never had that particular complaint before. Not even when doing unicorns.
     
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  25. Monocause Arcane

    Monocause
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    It was actually an innocent dramabait on my part; apparently sexual tension levels are temporarily low in fair Codexia so you appear to be safe, for now. Still, keep out of GD and don't mention that you're a girl there.

    I think it's partially due to the vibrant colours you use, I'd love to see a bit more bleakness there. Nothing really realistic, just a bit more grime; I see you tried with the blood smears but whatever effect that could have is ruined by the fairy-tale blue sky (you could've picked a more pale shade of blue, fits the Northlands better). Also, you could practice a bit with facial details. Gorath's face should be more rugged, not as shapely, pure and clean as you had shown him; some shading on his face would do well, a subtle bruise perhaps as well. His ears could be more jagged, his stare could be more grim; in your rendition he looks more like a Final Fantasy character rather than a guy whose first memorable mention in the game is when he strangles his own kin with shackles ;D.

    If you don't enjoy a realistic approach perhaps try drawing something more abstract? Distort all the shapes instead of trying to redraw some sort of an ideal version in your head. Distort proportions in a way that fits the mood, make the sky sickly green, make his ears sharp as knives and longer than his head etc, you get the idea. Whatever you pick, remember to try to make all the elements - colours, characters, scenery etc - serve in creating a mood you desire. What can be seen on the drawing is not an end but only a means to an end - the aim of every piece of art is to guide the viewer's impressions. The more conscious you'll be of how different things affect the final impact of what you're doing the better your drawings will get over time.

    A short disclaimer here: I'd like to encourage you with what I'm writing, provide some constructive critique - ie. I'm not trying to be a condescending smartarse. While I like consuming visual arts I am no good at neither drawing nor painting so whatever tips I can give are stemming from my experience in other fields of art and theoretical pursuits, thus I won't really feel offended if you just ignore them.

    Also, I find that Gorath pic quite nice, just aesthetically confused a bit.

    EDIT: Tried giving your Gorath a bit more Icewind Dale'ish look via photoshop, it was rather a failure but here it is:

    [​IMG]

    Desaturated it, desaturated the face and the ear alone even more and applied a low opacity cutout layer on the face then fooled with RGB curves to make red highlights more highlited and the rest of the colors more bleak.
     
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