Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

So i just finished AoD

Self-Ejected

Harry Easter

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
819
epeli

That's actually a good summation of the game. I didn't like the combat and tried to avoid, but I liked how you could use your social skills. Problem was: even with the lowest peasant you needed very high stats to get shit done. I would also have liked to stay in the starter town, since there were actually the conflicts that interested me and were everything was connected. Maybe it would have helped, if they build the areas around this starter-hub. But to be fair: the game was over ten years in development and after such a long time you learn a lot, but you won't be able to include all lessons into a project. I see a lot of potential and I hope they will get to used it in the New World, which looks very promising.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
3,933
Location
Nedderlent
Crafting was the bad kind of crafting

Very personal. I won't go into the whole post (would be a broken record kinda deal) but this stood out because some people, me included, think this is the right kind of crafting. Simple as shit, impactful, used in checks. Perfect. I can see how people would enjoy a system a la UR, but not everybody does.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Very personal. I can see how people would enjoy a system a la UR, but not everybody does.

This is why I fucking hate namefagging. Please read the post, not the poster. For the record I don't consider UR a fucking sacred reference design that every game should aspire to imitate. Cataclysm: DDA has a better example of good crafting system that fits perfectly within the game's other systems.

But since it's me, let me use this rare opportunity and shit on UR crafting to reinforce the above. At least that's a topic I know.
Its crafting implementation, like everything else, has its share of flaws. The primary means of acquiring your desired components (endless window shopping against RNG) is a huge waste of potential. Too many components are limited to crafting only, meaning you won't loot anything particularly exciting from fallen enemies, and also making humans less versatile opponents than they could be. The extreme power of crafted items (some of these styg acknowledges as issues to be fixed) diminishes the value of everything else, including unique items that would otherwise be more satisfying to find. This power gap on top of other crafting advantages leads to heavy focus on crafting skills being disproportionately favorable. Even when the stygsoft guys buff other skills to turn them from noob traps into something useful, it ends up supporting crafting more than being good on its own. (Case in point: mercantile improvements through unlockable special merchandise. There's some good in it for non-crafters, but for the most part they still sell crap gear, only better components.) I don't want to see other games repeat this shit.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
I just completed AoD for the first time yesterday. Played with a combat build (gladius/block/heavy armor/cs).

It is an interesting game to play more so than a fun game. It's interesting, especially in the context of modern cRPGs, in that it actually tries new things, some of them quite successfully. The C&C is of course the centerpiece, and is quite enjoyable. But also the experience system, with skillpoints.

The writing is very good in dialogue, but lacking in overarching plotlines. Maybe it would've been more interesting if I played with a lore build and discovered more things, but just the general thrust of it lacked something.

The combat was alright but not really a lot of choice. You put your points in, and then it plays out exactly the same every time.

The bad stuff was the necessity of meta-gaming. My initial build got trapped in the Pass, as it was not ready for the pseudo-Mongols.

Overall, also, as our librarian friend mentioned in the OP, the game just lacks a cohesive purpose, a lot of times throughout I was asking myself, what the hell am I doing, why am I exploring all these ruins, what's the point?

Still, unlike the PoE's and D:OS's of the world, AoD tried some new things and was an interesting experiment. Definitely does not belong in the 11th spot, but hopefully they will learn from the experience and make their next game better.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,825
Actually no, AoD has enough useable items that you can vary your tactics with them: throwing nets, bombs, etc.
Consumables are there to make hybrid builds possible. They can be used to bridge the gap.

Overall its a game that the more you play the more interesting it gets. But there isnt a lot of reason to keep playing it other than for exploration of choices.
 

mushaden

Scholar
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
334
Worth remembering that each weapon is different in combat. Spear vs dagger is almost completely different. So if you need another reason to replay besides the story and the lore, you could take a different weapon.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
PorkyThePaladin to see AoD's true strength, you'll need to play the game at least 7 times. While it might sound like a meme, it's true. A full-combat build (Mercenary/Imperial guard), a full-talker build (Merchant), a thief, an assassin, a praetor, a loremaster, and either drifter or grifter. No need to metagame, no need to frustrate yourself with this one check you can't pass at the moment and don't even bother with checks not meant for your intended playstyle, just play.

Worth remembering that each weapon is different in combat. Spear vs dagger is almost completely different. So if you need another reason to replay besides the story and the lore, you could take a different weapon.
This. Trying a full combat build with each different weapon is in and of itself a good enough reason to play AoD a few more times. Each weapon type behave differently, and when taking one-handed and two-handed weapons into consideration the possibility increases even more when trying to play with Dodge, Block, or even no defense at all. It's even just as interesting to see how combat plays out as a hybrid character, where the need to utilize items is greater than a full-combat build.

The combat was alright but not really a lot of choice. You put your points in, and then it plays out exactly the same every time.

Actually no, AoD has enough useable items that you can vary your tactics with them: throwing nets, bombs, etc.
Hell, without even considering usable items, as mushaden pointed out trying different weapons is fun and they behave very differently and you'd need to approach each one differently, too. AoD's combat system is actually pretty solid, since with only minor alteration it's possible to incorporate party-based feature into it as seen in Dungeon Rats.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
The combat was alright but not really a lot of choice. You put your points in, and then it plays out exactly the same every time.

Actually no, AoD has enough useable items that you can vary your tactics with them: throwing nets, bombs, etc.
Hell, without even considering usable items, as mushaden pointed out trying different weapons is fun and they behave very differently and you'd need to approach each one differently, too. AoD's combat system is actually pretty solid, since with only minor alteration it's possible to incorporate party-based feature into it as seen in Dungeon Rats.
I think what he meant is that the unforgiving nature of combat forces you to stick to one weapon+defense combination for the whole game. To try out different weapons, you'd have to start a new character. And for consumables to be useful you need points in either throwing or alchemy. The system is actually better suited for party-based since in the party you tend to have defined roles anyway.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
The combat was alright but not really a lot of choice. You put your points in, and then it plays out exactly the same every time.

Actually no, AoD has enough useable items that you can vary your tactics with them: throwing nets, bombs, etc.
Hell, without even considering usable items, as mushaden pointed out trying different weapons is fun and they behave very differently and you'd need to approach each one differently, too. AoD's combat system is actually pretty solid, since with only minor alteration it's possible to incorporate party-based feature into it as seen in Dungeon Rats.
I think what he meant is that the unforgiving nature of combat forces you to stick to one weapon+defense combination for the whole game. To try out different weapons, you'd have to start a new game. And for consumables to be useful you need points in either throwing or alchemy.
What other RPGs out there where you can immediately switch between different types of weapon that needs different skills to be wielded right from the start? I can think of Underrail, where you can switch between Guns/Crossbows/Melee with Throwing, but only because Throwing is meant as a supportive skill to the former skills. And you need to invest in two skills instead of just one, although you can stop invest in Throwing at some point in the game. If you go full combat build in AoD, you can begin increasing another weapon skill that synergize well with your main weapon skill (Sword-Dagger-Spear, or Hammer-Axe) once the cost of raising your main skill is very high.

As for consumables, why would you need Throwing? You can comfortably throw around bombs and fire liquids without the skill. And you don't exactly need alchemy, you can just buy the stuff from alchemists and/or loot them from dungeons, or corpses.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
What other RPGs out there where you can immediately switch between different types of weapon that needs different skills to be wielded right from the start?
In Shadowrun it's quite feasible to start with a two-weapons build (although SRR is extremely generous with skillpoints, so of course there's that). I think also in Xulima you could have fairly different weapons within the same skill, but I might be misremembering.
But it's also true that single-character combat will never give you the tactical complexity of party-based one, so it's not very fair to hold AoD to that standard.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
In Shadowrun it's quite feasible to start with a two-weapons build (although SRR is extremely generous with skillpoints, so of course there's that). I think also in Xulima you could have fairly different weapons within the same skill, but I might be misremembering.
Is Shadowrun's combat fun, even when playing two-weapons build? I haven't yet gathered enough curiosity to finally begin playing it properly.

Being able to use different weapons with just one same skill is not anything new. Aforementioned Underrail is just that, with just Guns skill you can use pistols, SMGs, ARs, sniper rifles, and energy weapons. With just Melee, you can use daggers, combat gloves, or go completely unarmed, and with the upcoming expansion you should be able to wield machetes and spears. You can also name Fallout, where Small Guns allows you to use pistols, SMGs, ARs, and sniper rifles, while Melee allows you to use daggers, spears, and hammers. I'd say what makes the experience different when playing these games with the same skill, however, isn't only focusing on different weapons but also taking different perks.
Now perk system is what AoD don't really have, and instead weapon skills are separated to different types of weapons. Each skills also having its special effect that acts like its own perk (investing in Swords allows you to have a chance to bleed enemies with every attacks, Daggers increases your critical chance when using aimed attacks, etc etc).
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
Is Shadowrun's combat fun, even when playing two-weapons build? I haven't yet gathered enough curiosity to finally begin playing it properly.
I think the consensus about Dragonfall's combat is "fun but easy". The encounter and level design is quite good, allowing different classes to exercise their special skills. To make it less easy, there's a mod that allows the non-boss enemies to attack more than once per round (in vanilla they are gimped to attack only once no matter how many action points they have).
The other two SRR games are considerably worse in that regard.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
I think the consensus about Dragonfall's combat is "fun but easy". The encounter and level design is quite good, allowing different classes to exercise their special skills. To make it less easy, there's a mod that allows the non-boss enemies to attack more than once per round (in vanilla they are gimped to attack only once no matter how many action points they have).
The other two SRR games are considerably worse in that regard.
Ah, thanks for the info.

Fluent just starting to read this thread, mate? There, I fixed the image.
 

mushaden

Scholar
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
334
The combat was alright but not really a lot of choice. You put your points in, and then it plays out exactly the same every time.

Actually no, AoD has enough useable items that you can vary your tactics with them: throwing nets, bombs, etc.
Hell, without even considering usable items, as mushaden pointed out trying different weapons is fun and they behave very differently and you'd need to approach each one differently, too. AoD's combat system is actually pretty solid, since with only minor alteration it's possible to incorporate party-based feature into it as seen in Dungeon Rats.
I think what he meant is that the unforgiving nature of combat forces you to stick to one weapon+defense combination for the whole game. To try out different weapons, you'd have to start a new character. And for consumables to be useful you need points in either throwing or alchemy. The system is actually better suited for party-based since in the party you tend to have defined roles anyway.

The thing about this game is that it's less than 10 hours long (and it gets quicker as you know what to do). Maybe I'm just autistic, but I didn't mind playing it umpteen times. I'll probably get roasted for saying this :lol: but AoD eventually became like a ritual to me (even the save-scumming :lol:, which I never really do in any other game), with little variations to see new content each time I replayed.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
The thing about this game is that it's less than 10 hours long (and it gets quicker as you know what to do). Maybe I'm just autistic, but I didn't mind playing it umpteen times. I'll probably get roasted for saying this :lol: but AoD eventually became like a ritual to me (even the save-scumming :lol:, which I never really do in any other game), with little variations to see new content each time I replayed.
Nah, it's not just you. I literally lost count of how many times I've replayed AoD, and suffice to say it's my most replayed game of my life as of now. I don't savescum, though, not in my first 10 playthrough or so. I only really reload every time I die in combat, and when curiosity finally got me after my nth playthrough, I did what you did, making little variations to see new content each time I replay the game.
 
Last edited:

KMJ

Literate
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
5
I haven't finished AoD yet - but I don't like how the game explicitly encourages you to make a combat-focused character and to join the Guards... whose questline ends each town with a difficult fight... which you can skip by putting a few points in civic skills... thus turning your character into the combat/dialogue hybrid the developers told you was a worse choice. Maybe I'm just too thick for the combat system.

Heavy armor and weapons also look more like a hindrance than an aid even for "warrior" characters.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom