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Some musings on my objection.

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by ushdugery, May 10, 2008.

  1. ushdugery Scholar

    ushdugery
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    I've recently been thinking recently on what the basis of all my objection to the changes in fallout 3 is about, and have finally come to a conclusion. What I really dislike about changing the viewpoint to beth(crap)soft style of adventuring is the removal of the descriptive text box, and to me that was where half the joy of the game came from.

    It seems to me almost all the bleak and sometimes trite homour was derived from descriptions of items and scenary and people in the wasteland, it stopped the artwork and graphical portions of the game from needing to stand alone (although they were definately well above par in the art quality department) it enhanced them gave them hilarity and character that could never be derived from something visual.

    In losing this they are destroying their chances at supporting their inferior art quality and from what I have seen writing ability something that they should have considered very carefully before doing away with the interface, this truly sadens me as I feel if they had kept that and some other things I might have been able to pull some modicum of enjoyment from even these inferior designers bastardisation of this gem of a game that I came to love so much and be influenced by so much during my formative years.

    That's all thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
     
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  2. TalesfromtheCrypt Arcane

    TalesfromtheCrypt
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    /me nods.
     
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  3. Kingston Arcane

    Kingston
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    Long sentence is long.

    (Stupid memes are stupid)
    (memes are stupid.)
     
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  4. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    I'm a full supporter of "text for immersion" in RPGs, so I can only agree with you. Nothing is as awesome as a text box telling you what *your character* sees in the gameworld. Way better than just you seeing the graphics with your own eyes.
     
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  5. Jaime Lannister Arbiter

    Jaime Lannister
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    I don't know. If you alter the description based on the character's stats (perception and intelligence come to mind) then it's a neat trick; otherwise, there's a general rule in media that showing is better than telling.
     
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  6. Thor Kaufman Arcane Zionist Agent

    Thor Kaufman
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    [​IMG]

    Making the fallout humour purely visual would make it a bit too wacky at times, it would be more like Sam & Max then. Or just add in countless Monty Python references?

    I'd rather read a description of a rock that tells me that it looks shiftily at me and will probably jump in my back if I don't take care than actually it have a face and jump at me when I look at it. But maybe that's the wonders of soil erosion.
     
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  7. Faceless Novice

    Faceless
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    Personally, I'd rather the world be detailed enough that you don't need text descriptions.
    The ideal way to preserve this is (imo) to make it so that NPCs will react to you checking out things.

    For example, you go into a shop, and you walk up to a table. Ordinarily the table would be non-interactive, but if you try to interact with it and are within range of an NPC, the NPC will make a comment about the table in question.

    To avoid repetition and annoyance, after the first description the feature could deactivate for that object, or the dialogue could change. Things like, "Would you like me to leave you two alone?" etc.
     
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  8. Imbecile Arbiter

    Imbecile
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    I suppose the other way round it, would be to give your character a voice so that when you examine an object your character says something appropriate. Likewise for the comments in combat.Of course, the voice acting would have to be decent...
     
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  9. Hory Erudite

    Hory
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    Wow, good idea. Didn't think of making the "examine" action interactive, and I can't think of any RPGs that did either. In a 3D RPG, you could use this in conjunction with level design to actually mimic the workings of a shop. You walk in, you look around on the stuff on the walls. If something catches your eye, the seller might notice it and describe the item in more detail. Then, if you want to buy it, you pick it up and stop by to pay on the way out. Obviously, if you don't, you'd trigger robbery behaviour. This whole process might be boring in a hack'n'slash, but seamless in a story-based RPG. Also, I love it that you wouldn't need additional "2D interface screens".
     
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  10. Claw Erudite Patron

    Claw
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    Oh, like an adventure. Yeah, that'd work. Not that I expect Bethesda to consider something along those lines. Just think of the work writing all those descriptions.


    That might be interesting for a few occasions and specific situations like your shop idea, but I don't see it as a viable way of replacing text descriptions.
     
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  11. Human Shield Augur

    Human Shield
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    3D graphics will never mimic inner musings, touch, or scent.
     
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  12. Crazy Tuvok Liturgist

    Crazy Tuvok
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    For sheer impact value nothing can best FO1's text when you leave the vault and hit the wastes.

    "For the first time in your life..."

    No graphic is gonna do that justice.
     
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  13. VonVentrue Cipher Patron

    VonVentrue
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    So true...
     
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  14. Hory Erudite

    Hory
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    Well, even in my example, text descriptions don't have to go away. Let's say you examine an item. A successful lore/perception check tells you "This beautifully crafted [item] looks like the item worn by [hero X] in [war Y], but open closer inspection you realize it is just a finely copied replica, with none of the original's magic properties."
    Now, where Faceless' interactivity suggestion comes in: The merchant sees you looking and comes over saying "Ooh, this is the famous [item]. Very expensive, but definitely worth it." Then you can say "I don't take kindly to frauds." or "I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. It's just a copy."
    This would be the exception. Most items would probably have no strings attached (or perhaps for some, through your haggling skill, you can find flaws to reduce their price). The interesting thing is that your examination of the item doesn't happen in a virtual static interface, with no input from the environment, but it happens quite close to how it would in reality.
     
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  15. Joe Krow Erudite

    Joe Krow
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    But without text how can you smell things?
     
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  16. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Do it like they did in Leisure Suit Larry 7 :lol:

    There they included some smell pad... a little paper sheet with different stuffs on it, and you could rub them and then smell on them. When you entered an area the game said "smell number 4" or something like that, and then you could rub number 4 and smell it.
     
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  17. Imbecile Arbiter

    Imbecile
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    Nah, but they can help trigger them. As can text or vocals.
     
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  18. elander_ Arbiter

    elander_
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    Why not both?
     
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  19. Jaime Lannister Arbiter

    Jaime Lannister
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    Lots of bloom as your eyes adjust. :)
     
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  20. Faceless Novice

    Faceless
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    I hadn't thought of this. Great idea.
     
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  21. Section8 Erudite

    Section8
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    It'd be funny if it wasn't true. :?
     
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  22. Brother None inXile Entertainment Developer

    Brother None
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    Pretty much.

    I thought the leaving-the-vault bit was fairly well done in the Fallout 3 demo. Everything turns kind of blurry and bright and then your eyes adjust slowly.
     
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  23. nik2008ofs Scholar

    nik2008ofs
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    Fallout 3 Demo? How long have I been away?
     
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  24. shihonage Subscribe to my OnlyFans Patron

    shihonage
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    I bet the effect is very similar to the first few seconds of the non-interactive COD4 mission "car ride".
     
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