Some questions from a storyfag who doesn't agree with other storyfags

[Clockwork Knight]

I wish I was your dad so I could slap you in the forehead for being so batshit insane

 

[Skittles]

Yes, we, Skittles, have used your weakness for replying to sincere sounding replies as proof that you're a troll. You ask for the specifics of why more people don't act like you want them to. Because those people aren't here. If you want to be the uberstoryfag, nobody's stopping you from fighting the good fight and creating the kind of discussions you want to see about stories in cRPGs and videogames. You're not doing that. Instead, you're spewing retarded nonsense and attacking everybody--this board, the people who're laughing at you, and the people trying to talk with you. Your posting style, in its poor construction, specious grammar and atrocious attitude, not to mention paucity of content, is quashing the discussion you claim to want to have.

What is a person who posts specifically to waste everybody's time and get them riled up? A troll.

 

[DraQ]

1. How come even for an elitist fanbase people tend to flock towards more mainstream (in a hardcore sense) games?

Even on an elitist forum there is the problem of having to know that certain game exists before playing it, and knowing why you should play it. Mainstream games are widely known, obscure games are obscure.

Then there are relative noobs (I for one didn't have a PC till around 1996, and even after that I suffered from language barrier, so my contact with old gems involves learning of their existence, finding the games themselves, getting them to run and often struggling with poor interface, while being tempted by rare worthwhile modern game, or replaying a classic I already know).

And then, there are poseurs, who just like to feel hardcore and shit, plus, for a simple enough mind, running around screaming "nigger" is an everlasting novelty and a source of neverending joy.

2. It's human nature to let the hate flow more than the love, but how come even for an elitist board people don't defend their positions in details.

See the last point above.
For an elitist forum we sure have a lot of dumbfucks.

I read a Witcher thread where some people were claiming that the Witcher's combat system is boring and while it's a gameplay based thread, as a storyfag, it baffles me why people who like stories in their game rarely defend the fact that "in a realistic game world sense" boring automatic QTE fights are more in line with how sword fights work than intricate 1-6 men strategic battles.

Most people had little experience with realistic sword fights, so it's hard to opine either way unless you're an expert. Then there is the problem of witcher being much faster, stronger and more agile than an ordinary man.

I think it's safe to say that fights in witcher were lackluster for two reasons:

1. They lacked detail necessary for any "realistic game world sense" to even be applicable - you know, locational damage, locational armour, hits to vital spots, different attacks and parries, and so on.

2. They lacked fine control, since you clicked once and waited for lengthy, fixed sequence of attacks to play out.

On the bright side they sure were pretty and cool looking enough to not be boring despite low interactivity.

Sure, complex 6-men tactics may not be the thing most of the time (unless you try to go Commandos), but they try to work around lack of detail and lack of fine control, with quite a bit of success.

3. Why do people claim it's easier/more desiring to make better stories for adventure games?

Because writing a story for an adventure game isn't too different from writing a story for a non-interactive medium, while a story written for an RPG must at the very least accommodate variety of possible characters, which in turn bloom in even greater variety of possible motivations, means to achieve goals and other actions.

4. Speaking of this, why do many elitist who love stories claim things like Planescape Torment or insert almost any game mentioned here beyond one thread as having good stories?

At best, they have more original stories (though still not necessarily original). But are they good? They're typical CRPG muck. You're an all powerful being. One way or another despite your choices you're an all powerful being. If you're not an all powerful being at the beginning then by some fantasy cliche (despite all your choices) you're going to be an all powerful being. You're not going to be wiser. Your baby is just an icon. Your guns are hierarchily built and the only sandbox sense you have is that some areas are suicide spots without you're knowing but in the end, you're all going to become characters that could fit any of the level 1 classes in Diablo 2. (Not just in gameplay domination but plot sense)

It's one thing if the above is a rare opinion but it's not. It's a non-existant one. Some critics may have problems with games like Torment but they never go full storyfag. It's like a board of elitists fully pandering to the elitist crowds. Yes there are disagreements but I've yet to read a true storyfag disagreement in ANY of the major gaming forums I've chanced upon and I don't know the little known forums at all.

Because PS:T managed to deconstruct many of the cliches, while also being able to trigger some emotional involvement out of the player which combined with music, dialogue and often good art design created a memorable and atmospheric experience.

Actually my main problem with PS:T apart form gameplay related stuff like shit combat and art design related stuff, like higher class females looking far more like whores than whores did, was that due to special condition and rapid growth TNO, was distanced from the world and NPCs. At least we can say that PS:T's point wasn't being power fantasy, but technically it indeed ended up being one to a large extent. You ended up pretty much able to forge planes with your will. You had several attributes on far end of the divine portion of attribute scale. You had items and spells so epic that you could commit a moderate genocide by just flicking your fingers. Hell, from the very beginning you could resurrect people. Doing 'good' thing was never a dilemma for TNO, because he was fucking TNO.

But then, it's a problem in many other RPGs, although for purely gameplay, rather than story related reasons. The main problem here, is that RPGs tend to scale player's power too dramatically, possibly just because a system that isn't very detailed doesn't allow for much subtlety.

In a detailed system, there could be many ways to make player character powerful in the end, but still subject to commonsensical limitations, like having reason to actually lay down your arms when ordered to do so by several armed and armoured guards or run from a fucking dragon or merely a powerful, incorporeal undead.

Of course, there is also the option of simply not having any skill progression, apart from possibly several scripted upgrades, and rely on the diversity of initial builds instead, but the notion of RPG equalling level ups seems too deeply ingrained in the RPG players' mentality. Even here.

The Fallout stat system was original, unique and fun and it wrapped it all in one whole package and the post-apocalyptic setting is Geekfest at it best but that doesn't mean that it somehow made for a richer plot or richer world.

Depends. It certainly made for a more flexible story, and flexibility is the sole existing reason for making your story an interactive game, rather than non-interactive movie or novel.

My main problem with J(R)PG school of thought is that they don't try to be interactive medium. Instead of being games they try to be movies. Obviously, they fail when compared with actual movies.

It's better to try to be good at something you have potential for than trying to be good at something you'll inevitably end up being shit at.

I haven't addressed quite a few points, because I don't think I could understand what you were trying to say. I'd appreciate more clarity next time.

As for not discussing the stories in general, there is one caveat to discussing stories:
Every other element can be discussed freely without spoiling the game for those who haven't played it, discussing stories will inevitably diminish enjoyment of potential players, which is something you want to avoid if you think the game is awesome and can't wait for the "neophytes" to share their untainted impressions.

Another problem is that here, on the RPGCodex, we often discuss stuff we'd like to find wider application and thus try to come up with things that can be generalized and applied to many possible stories and settings, while a good story isn't really repeatable.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Remember when Alan Sokal trolled the academic journal Social Text by submitting "Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity", a paper that was designed to resemble a real academic paper, but was intentionally written so as to not make any sense whatsoever?

Retinue trying to do the same thing to the prestigious RPG Codex magazine.

Only difference is, he is really trolling himself as nobody is going to read an 8,700 word post.

 

[DraQ]

I think I understand what your problem is, and in some points (but only in some points and only a tiny little bit) I agree. You are not a storyfag. You are an immersionfag.

What you want from a game is coherent game-logic in story, setting and even gameplay. You don't give a shit about gameplay as much as you do about story, or let's call it "inner coherence". You don't care if the combat is awesome fun, as long as it feels realistic or authentic: this becomes clear as you prefer Witcher's combat (which I didn't think was bad, but definitely not perfect) to tactical turn based fights, and probably also to skill-requiring first person action combat, because it feels more realistic/more fitting to the setting. You don't want RPG-like character development because it makes no sense in any setting that someone goes from peasant to demigod in 5 weeks.

This means you're an immersionfag.

I can definitely sympathize.

This is not a bad thing in itself, but it can become bad if you give it a higher priority than gameplay. You see, games are, first and foremost, supposed to be games. You play them because of gameplay, and naturally, gameplay has to make some abstractions to be fun. Levelling up and raising skills is an integral part of RPGs, and therefore should never be removed. It is not a story-related "power fantasy", it is gameplay. Watching numbers go up and choosing what perk to pick on level up is fun. Being rewarded for solving quests by getting XP is fun. People play RPGs because of those things - which means you cannot simply remove XP and levelling from RPGs, even though it would make more "story sense".

I disagree here. I think you could make an RPG without skill development as long as it would feature meaningful character creation options.

Most games do just fine without XPs and level ups. The defining feature of RPGs is their adaptability, masturbation through incrementation is just something tacked on.

I'd love to see sensible skill improvement system, but static stats wouldn't be half bad.

Also, gameplay can, and should be changed to facilitate immersion, so being an all-out immersionfag isn't that bad.

"'storyfag' around here denotes somebody whose appreciation of the story in a game serves to help them forgive it its flaws as a game."

"You're looking for the sort of person for whom the story is the point of the games"

What's the difference between the two here?

Hardness.

The former would be soft storyfag, someone who just can get enthralled by story alone.

The latter would be hard storyfag, someone who would not just accept a great storyfag game, but be glad to sacrifice all the other elements if that would mean more games like it, even at the expense of other types of games.

The former meaning is generally not seen as derogatory (even though word storyfag is, although it's often used ironically), the latter is.

It's literally like 8700 words, what the fuck man.

I'd be more partial to reading those >9000 words if so many of them weren't busy making circles around individual console titles I have never played nor intend to play, because I don't plan ever buying console.

While I honestly do love walls of text, I'd prefer communications in this thread to be more concise and to the point.

half-trolling

Personally I like the kind where I post something highly controversial I nevertheless agree with, or just wrap it up in controversial wording and troll a whole bunch of people while also creating a decent start of a legitimate discussion.

I read the posts by one of our newest members and I have to applaud his ability to evolve out-of-the-box paradigms. It depressingly rare that I am able to witness posts that truly engage synergistic functionalities in such a way. Does Planescape: Torment truly synergize interactive deliverables? I mean, to be totally blunt, it hardly does architect world-class convergence, now does it? As a writer, you have to envisioneer turn-key users - even if your stories facilitate impactful niches, if they do not embrace compelling communities, they'll remain meaningless.

Lets have a look at The Witcher. Although I am not a writer, I think that the reductive quality of the spatial relationships seems very disturbing in light of the eloquence of these stories. With regard to the issue of content, the disjunctive perturbation of the negative space endangers the devious simplicity of the distinctive formal juxtapositions.

CDP Red's work investigates the nuances of vibrations through the use of slow motion and close-ups which emphasize the Artificial nature of digital media. explores abstract and gay scenery as motifs to describe the idea of infinite space. Using next-gen loops, non-linear narratives, and neo-fascist images as patterns, creates meditative environments which suggest the expansion of culture.

The mind creates, the chaos permeates. In the trans-gender space, art objects are reproductions of the creations of the mind -- a mind that uses the chaos as a machine to materialize ideas, patterns, and emotions. With the evolution of the electronic environment, the mind is reaching a point where it will be free from the chaos to share immersions into the parameters of the delphic space. Work of Anti-Art in the Age of Artificial Reproduction, Skyrim contains 10 minimal shockwave engines (also refered to as "voice actors") that enable the user to make majestic audio/visual compositions.

measuring chains, constructing realities
putting into place forms
a matrix of illusion and disillusion
a strange attracting force
so that a seduced reality will be able to spontaneously feed on it

*slap*

I tried reading your postings. I honestly did. Somewhere halfway on the second, the supposedly "more concise" reply I came to realize what utter waste of time writing a proper reply would be. You are prosper mark II. The first model at least had the decency to keep its drivel short and contained.

I think the difference here is that the OP seems to have some point, but has much more severe problems with collecting his runaway train of thought into a neat, tidy, interpersonally communicable package than I do, then ruins his attempt completely by relying on multiple console exclusive examples, most of the people here won't even hear of again, apart from few generally well known ones like Chrono Trigger.

I do hope he isn't trying to pull Sokal on us, for we are not whatever mushybrained postmodernist crap magazine he trolled is called.
He does have the language spot-on, though.

Prosper, OTOH is just a diseased mind.

hopw roewur ne

 

[Retinue]

DraQ,

We pretty much have the same experience. I would say I may be worse off which is why I look up to the Codex somewhat. It's not like I'm the one with superior knowledge coming in.

That's why it really caught me off guard. It's expected that there's always going to be a mainstream branch but as far as storyfags go, you see even someone here starts from a somewhat decent reply and then now goes full retard and goes into a thread basically saying "we" don't exist and I should leave the forum.

It's almost the opposite. You expect elitist board to be somewhat better but here you can have someone even read an implication that a RPG maker game I haven't played much to be something I love. Your dumbfucks are indeed really really special.

I think it's not about realistic sword fights though. It IS about what and who the Witcher is for a storyfag.

You say locational damage - In FCR especially, side and back leave you more vulnerable.

Locational armor - There's still a buy and sell system and an item system

Vital spots - This is replaced by stun killing as well as the special effects by the enemies. It is also made moot because the Witcher in FCR might as well hit the vital spots of the common human and the vital spots of the creatures according to their lore are the types of metals.

Different attacks and parries are found in the Witcher's style.

The thing however is that as a singularity this does not produce storyfag in storyfags. To do that you have to combine this with the world. Whether it's potential implication or as FCR showed, something more concrete that even if you cheat, the world stays the same. Most importantly however, we're now able to talk this because I, a storyfag, brought it up as an example.

Most storyfags it seems would just hint at some "gray moral" (of which they dare not spoil or discuss at least not often enough and not to the point of skinning the story) and even in the above aspects, storyfags are so silent that people that aren't storyfags don't know whether it's about realism or immersion.

In contrast, even though CRPGs are diverse, people get when you say Fallout 3 is not as good like Fallout for so on and so forth because the very same defenders can elaborate. Stretch this towards a more general CRPG populace, you still get the seed that stem that "Bioware sucks" trolls because before those were a meme people didn't hold back. It's the same with the zipper criticisms of FF. Before it was a in-community statement of obviousness, people talked about the graphics in so mundane a way that the fruits were details before the trolls and retards adopted them.

The closest storyfags have is not even their own. It's always something the hardcore praises or the mainstream praises. It's like whatever's convenient to talk about without being attacked. It goes against the definition of a vocal storyfag. If they love talking about it, there shouldn't really be something that's preventing them...or is there? I'm not talking about one person but their lack of severity of vocalism across all boards. The closest thing I've seen are story speculators and they are good only within a sub-niche of a sub-niche.

Another myth is fine control. I've never played a game with fine control. But as fine control is an ok term with gameplayers, the wording is not only clear but fine.

It's like storyfags have to deal with both the myths of gameplayers as well as the myths of stories.

For example, the above is still opinionated discussions but it would baffle me if any FCR player of any difficulty even with cheats besides god mode says you clicked once in Witcher FCR in combat. First enemy you do that to that isn't human besides the chapter 1 beginning forced fight you die.

You would just plain and simply die. But maybe you interpret this as Witcher vanilla only. it would still be a myth to a storyfag.

If more vocal storyfags talked, we wouldn't need to regurgitate this myth that Witcher is "click once" as the storyfags are not seeing the combat alone but the combination of combats with the world and it's potential. An uberstoryfag which I'm not may even go so far as mimic the FCR mod even if the mod lacks anything. Certainly there are many games where even if I have god mode, I act upon as if I don't have it. God mode simply dissolves the concept of unlimited potions and redundant inn rests concept for a JRPG storyfag. For a CRPG storyfag, it's more about dissecting the ramifications of the choices.

Either way the silence of the vocal storyfags ends up hurting everyone including them. If they were vocal, there wouldn't be a need to bring up the Witcher in a non-Witcher thread and have it be misinterpreted as non-FCR or what the implications of FCR brought to the forefront when it comes to storyfags.

As far as the adventure bit, that was linked to the above thread. Yes, skin deep or maybe slight writing, your opinion may be right but have you seen the modern adventure games and the modern rpgs?

From a storyfag perspective, even the classic ones, were about tanks, mages and physical users.

The classic adventure games had things like traps, cutscenes, weapons.

Both are difficult in their own way. The point here however is not to "discuss" this "right now" but as to present once again, the myths that storyfags have to work with. The idea that a story captures your attention so much that you forgave a gameplay mechanic entails that what additional difficulty another subset of gamer may have is no excuse for a storyfag especially a vocal one as they are wrapped within a story.

It's like saying comic book fags believing comic book stories being more difficult than novels because it's a graphic medium. No, whatever reality there may be for that, a hardcore comic book fan if they love stories can not only name but discuss the intricacies of stories going so much as the full retards building up VS. threads based on scans. It's never been this much of a problem for anyone but vocal storyfags to express their love.

And it's not like I'm saying, why do "official" writers believe adventure games to be easier to write but rather why storyfags continue to help promote this myth?

Take for example that myth in that other thread about videogame movies, how do you kill that myth? It was a basic copy paste of:


Escape From Butcher Bay had a positive reception from critics.[57][58][55][56] Certain reviewers preferred the game over its film counterpart, and considered it an exception to the general mediocrity of film tie-in games.
If you don't know about Escape from Butcher Bay, then someone who knows can easily kill the myth. In time, enough people bring that up, the myth pretty much has little power.
It's the same with the vocal storyfags. Compare and mention and analyze enough underrated story aspects especially of both genres then you kill the retards who attempt to promote a myth.
...but we are the only ones who's vocal subset is the most silent and irrelevant speaking. We are the only ones who seem to get bothered if someone says we make no sense or we're fags.
I'm not saying it shouldn't bother us. I don't make these topics primarily because it bothers me. It doesn't help that I'm a horrible communicator but that's not every storyfag. That's not vocal storyfags at all.
Because PS:T managed to deconstruct many of the cliches, while also being able to trigger some emotional involvement out of the player which combined with music, dialogue and often good art design created a memorable and atmospheric experience.

PS:T is not only an old game but what it deconstructed does not match with what storyfag considers deconstructions.

They are cliches by non-storyfags. If the vocal storyfags had not backed down in their views, then we'd get true deconstruction.

Instead this is primarily one of the bad things about storyfags.

If you are one, this is unhelpful. Not saying you are.

Just that if you are one, it's like a bunch of people saying PS:T deconstructed many of the cliches.

Then again: (in some slight word changes) PS:T deconstructed many of the cliches

What specific cliches?

What emotional involvement?

Hopefully you don't interpret this as direct questions. Of course every fan or gamer may have an answer but can they provide the storyfag answer and can they replicate true storyfag argument so that it's now more specific where PS:T is not a cliche from where it is a cliche?

To simplify this question, can any group now create a specific retelling of what elements of PS:T makes one a storyfag from what elements of it doesn't and which of those elements are good or bad plot-wise/design-wise/etc?

They can't. Because the vocal storyfags for some reason are silent.

In contrast, if I don't know what makes Fallout 1/2 better than Fallout 3 to a Fallout lover despite playing the game, I can find it in much easier manner.

The same can be said of almost all gameplays and where graphics are harder, it's easier to spot where people flock. No Skittle will say there are no ubergraphicwhores here go away or there are no Bethesda lovers here go away. Only us gets to be shunned away by the very same hardcore.

Even if you just say that's just one person or that's just one dumbfuck, this topic draws as much butthurt as a bad troll thread even if it's just a minor thread. This topic creates the illusion that what I wrote is a tl;dr for a storyfag. This topic creates the illusion that what I gave was a "detailed" reference. All because the myth is storyfags are giving of less because that's what the vocal ones did and continue to do.

"In a detailed system, there could be many ways to make player character powerful in the end, but still subject to commonsensical limitations, like having reason to actually lay down your arms when ordered to do so by several armed and armoured guards or run from a fucking dragon or merely a powerful, incorporeal undead.

Of course, there is also the option of simply not having any skill progression, apart from possibly several scripted upgrades, and rely on the diversity of initial builds instead, but the notion of RPG equalling level ups seems too deeply ingrained in the RPG players' mentality. Even here."

True and this is one example where the storyfag perspective can help best. Assuming equal understanding.

Gameplayers, GMs, Graphic Whores, unless they plan to make a game - these details don't hold as much stake to them as they do to storyfags.

Not because we're superior but just the design, it's one of our salvations to a better storyfag game if we could answer this. It's like if enough gameplayers can say hey! this game IS the better gameplay. Even if no one pays attention except for the minority eventually you're going to snag a modmaker that reads less of the myths and more of the hardcore demand.

My main problem with J(R)PG school of thought is that they don't try to be interactive medium. Instead of being games they try to be movies. Obviously, they fail when compared with actual movies.

Again this is a myth that if more vocal storyfags talked about can easily die. Ideally JRPG fans could debunk this just the same but they are not as invested towards these. The hardcore JRPG fan is closer to a mainstream JRPG fan. Chrono Trigger was not an unknown gem like Planescape Torment or Fallout 2 and it fits closer to FF.

The real story is that many JRPGs are dungeon crawlers primarily because they try to mix CRPG. The most famous of this is the backstory of:

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/saga/saga.htm

Even if you knew this already, just vocal storyfags bridging this realm of CRPG and JRPG and not caring about what alphabets they are and looking at their "story" and them bringing this into light where they are vocal would have saved us from talking about this in a non-JRPG vs. CRPG thread.

Every other element can be discussed freely without spoiling the game for those who haven't played it, discussing stories will inevitably diminish enjoyment of potential players, which is something you want to avoid if you think the game is awesome and can't wait for the "neophytes" to share their untainted impressions.


There are still spoiler threads though. There are still story speculation threads.

No one died when people found out about Revan or Aeris.

Comic book fans, gameplay fans (who spoil the balance), graphic fans (who spoil the location names or looks or descriptions), these has always existed across the internet.

Even fanfiction fags talk about fanfiction.

Only storyfags do not meet the standards of their definitions when in fact a vocal branch should be the one that elevates this.

Another problem is that here, on the RPGCodex, we often discuss stuff we'd like to find wider application and thus try to come up with things that can be generalized and applied to many possible stories and settings, while a good story isn't really repeatable.

Written by a non-storyfag maybe. Considering one of the complaints about games is their lack of maturity when it comes to writing, it actually proves that so many stories today can be the most generalized.

You can't plagiarize popular graphics.

You can't exactly copy popular gameplay without being accused of being a clone.

Hollywood of all things, copies stories. Stories have the widest application especially if the vocal storyfags took their time presenting it. I don't. But I'm talking primarily to storyfags and it's not like it's one post that sends a culture. It takes two to tango and a group to create culture.

 

[Retinue]

"Hardness.

The former would be soft storyfag, someone who just can get enthralled by story alone.

The latter would be hard storyfag, someone who would not just accept a great storyfag game, but be glad to sacrifice all the other elements if that would mean more games like it, even at the expense of other types of games.

The former meaning is generally not seen as derogatory (even though word storyfag is, although it's often used ironically), the latter is."

The problem with this is that there's no such thing as hard or soft. Stories are not challenge levels or fashion aspects.

Storyfags all have to make compromises. Without that compromise, they can be teleported to forgiving a game mechanic.

Soft enough, a person would love a story but they can't produce the behavioural definition of storyfags.

Hard enough, a person would need to be almost a narcissistic self-game developer in order to even finish a game. (Believe me it's already hard enough to finish a game as a storyfag because you're constantly reviewing the optimal cheat and then reviewing the optimal blind play vs. walkthrough play and where min-maxing for gameplay lovers is a title screen, storyfags often have to restart at the middle after they figure out the context of the designs.)

completely by relying on multiple console exclusive examples, most of the people here won't even hear of again, apart from few generally well known ones like Chrono Trigger.

It's not about console exclusives. It's about event exclusives.

Just go and read a review of Wild Arms XP for example. Skim it, not even console lovers would say they would get what the gameplay means.

There's even a PC one in Sunset over Imdahl.

If Crpgs have that one major event to reference that I know of or can communicate the experience, it was FCR as a total package especially when cheating in the way I described.

 

[Jasede]

The thing is, I am not afraid of reading long posts or anything. But these days I just don't have enough time anymore to read everything that looks interesting, so I just go by what the comments or reviews say. It's not perfect, but it works reasonably well for me.

A brief glance at two posts above this one makes me think "alt" - and once again wonder, why bother with the effort? I wish I had that kind of time.

 

[EG]

I stand by interpretation of your posts, Retinue.

Just tell me this: How goes your efforts to be unbanned?

 

[laclongquan]

ITT epic battles of wallotext rage!

 

[Retinue]

I stand by interpretation of your posts, Retinue.

Just tell me this: How goes your efforts to be unbanned?

Actually since this forum imported my personal Twitter avatar (probably from gmail). An avatar that one can easily search for to link me to almost all my online activity that uses this avatar. An avatar that's pseudo-exclusive as it was given to me from Mixx, an avatar that if you were to accuse me of trolling, would be more beneficial to spot the photoedits made by other external forum posters rather than match with any past pattern of fail trolling alt accusations, my question is more like how goes the tinfoil of all the dumbfucks in this thread but alas that will be pointless. Still you got your answer so shoo. You had your time in making me laugh, now I'm waiting for some serious posters. If they aren't here or if Draq and the others ends up eating their stfu pie after they received actual replies when they thought I wouldn't or couldn't point out the details of their post - then this thread can just die but now I'm just reading other Codex topics and waiting.

I don't have the time to waste if even a poster like Jasede (who assumes a more old Codex forum poster role) can't put two and two together and figure out that maybe this isn't a troll thread. Maybe the effort is fueled by an actual desire to discuss. The thread has done more than enough to prove that I don't belong. Now I will once again request for all you irrelevant dumbfucks to go away. You'd have your field day. No more need to bump this thread if you will all just keep continuing the same old tired cliches I've encountered in other forums of other threads and keep proving that you are more retarded than those people.

 

[EG]

I am not Prosper.

Fuck you all; You're irrelevant.

See how difficult it is to be clear?

 

[Retinue]

Well that's it. I've read most of the Codex threads I want to read. I don't know how moderating works here but if this topic can be closed, please close it.

There's zero chance I would be coming back to post in it and there's little chance it would draw anyone but more retards.

Also, since alt trolling appears to be extra-popular in this forum, all I can say to the mods is that if they have doubt of my account's legitimacy and they feel the technical aspects of detection or account creation blocking is easily bypassable, all they have to do is quick ban any account that pretends to be my alt.

Even in the rare chance that I do come back, it will always be with this account. This avatar holds a special link to me and sometimes it even gets me in trouble because I can argue elsewhere that despite using a pseudonym this avatar holds special links to my main general internet activity and it truly caught me off guard that it imported it into this account and for a while I was even tempted to edit it but now that this is done - again - as lame as it sounds, I'm almost connected to this green question avatar in a form of honor and where this green avatar has appeared in any forum account, I have not only registered only once but in the chance that I have gotten banned with this avatar, even if I want to, it compels me to never remake an account again. Call it silly or whatever but you could say this is just another external-from-game quirk that certain storyfags possess.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The thread has done more than enough to prove that I don't belong. Now I will once again request for all you irrelevant dumbfucks to go away.

You don't belong, yet we go away ? o_O

you will all just keep continuing the same old tired cliches I've encountered in other forums of other threads

That's a flat-out lie. No clichés were used in this thread, just pure vintage Codex derp.


EDIT :

Actually since this forum imported my personal Twitter avatar (probably from gmail). An avatar that one can easily search for to link me to almost all my online activity that uses this avatar. An avatar that's pseudo-exclusive as it was given to me from Mixx, an avatar that if you were to accuse me of trolling, would be more beneficial to spot the photoedits made by other external forum posters rather than match with any past pattern of fail trolling alt accusations, my question is more like how goes the tinfoil of all the dumbfucks in this thread but alas that will be pointless.

This avatar holds a special link to me and sometimes it even gets me in trouble because I can argue elsewhere that despite using a pseudonym this avatar holds special links to my main general internet activity and it truly caught me off guard that it imported it into this account and for a while I was even tempted to edit it but now that this is done - again - as lame as it sounds, I'm almost connected to this green question avatar in a form of honor and where this green avatar has appeared in any forum account, I have not only registered only once but in the chance that I have gotten banned with this avatar, even if I want to, it compels me to never remake an account again. Call it silly or whatever but you could say this is just another external-from-game quirk that certain storyfags possess.

You sure love your avatar.

 

[crufty]

collabarative narratives in games are more interesting to me

also retinue perhaps consider typing everything in a sep document, then summing it up in three sentences. one could craft a blog post, place the entirety there, then post your three line summary here, w/a link to the blog.

edit: i see he has departed. ah well.

 

[EG]

Run away, little man. There is nothing for you here.

Why even initiate this conversation and spend all this time on your musings if someone as tame as myself can drive you away?

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Why even initiate this conversation and spend all this time on your musings if someone as tame as myself can drive you away?

Qwinn

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Retinue said:

As for what I want? I want a discussion with storyfags. I could elaborate but I already elaborated. I'm a storyfag who has a problem with the vocal storyfags holding back and thus creating a community where the voices of the storyfag are either unheard or less so heard that people end up thinking different wordings of storyfag with the same definition sounds like they possess different meanings. The consequence being less storyfag threads that actually matter. Again, take Rarrr... said a bunch of words to clear up his/her thoughts. Good! Then what does she do? She deprives the reader of knowing what's lacking about the psychology of modern games.

Maybe it was obvious. Maybe it was simplistic. But 90% of the other fags are outspoken with gameplay, graphics, etc. etc. Vocal storyfags don't. It's as if they are afraid that what I am accused of now would happen to them. Yet they have the right to say they love games for their stories so much that they can act forgiving of the other aspects of the game? How?! Unless you read a different post by Rarrr for example you wouldn't know from their post here what exactly they want to achieve by posting that. Just stating some genre is lacking psychology does not suddenly make it "is". Every other vocal fag actually says something but storyfags don't.

I think this is the closest you've come to your point for this thread. Anyways, I guess I'm a storyfag as I like to talk about characters, motivations, allusions to other literature/ real life, and all sort of stuff. So, start off with ONE character from an RPG (-esque) game and tell specifically what they do in the game (only physical actions and quotes). Then in list form using dashes (-) for bullets ask some specific questions using 100 characters (including spaces) or less for each dash. You then can get some serious discussion and we'll go from there.

I hope this helps us understand each other better and helps us learn a little more about RPGs.

 

[NewFag]

After a differential diagnosis, I'm not so certain Retinue is a troll in the pure sense. He puts in way too much effort. Its not that I don't want to have a storyfag discussion, I really do, its just I wished your posts were available in bite sized pieces. Or split into chapters. With headings. Makes it easier on the eyes.

 

[EG]

After a differential diagnosis, I'm not so certain Retinue is a troll in the pure sense. He puts in way too much effort. Its not that I don't want to have a storyfag discussion, I really do, its just I wished your posts were available in bite sized pieces. Or split into chapters. With headings. Makes it easier on the eyes.

Or had the Crazy removed.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

After a differential diagnosis, I'm not so certain Retinue is a troll in the pure sense. He puts in way too much effort.

I don't think he is a troll either. He just doesn't make sense and sure takes his sweet time about it. You can somehow feel some intention of having a discussion about... something. But it's extremely vague. That's why I first posted this :

"I sense a soul in search of answers".

 

[Excommunicator]

I might pretend to be a storyfag just to get involved in this discussion, but I can't pick up what it's really about from skimming his posts and you really need to earn the right to have your walls of text read. He hasn't.

The fact that he left before he got the results/answers he wanted is basically the proof you need to know the "topic" probably never had a chance to begin with.

Some random thoughts about where the topic should (?) be at:

I like stories in games, and I think a [complex] game (as opposed to a simple game like Tetris or bubble shooter) is always stronger when some effort is made to explain why things are happening in it, but not so if it means "rolling back" game mechanics to suit the narrative that the writer had in mind. Story to me is really just about the resulting interactions between interesting characters, a setting with an internal logic and the game events that occur in a believable/conceivable way within that setting.
Whether it is a hand written story or emerges as part of the mechanics is not really relevant to the end result. As it is, few writers are talented enough to be able to subject an interactive product to their linear narratives without damaging it, so they'll be disappointed to hear that most people, including me, would rather they just not put the effort in, just do a bare-bones kind of thing and let the game develop the rest on its own, organically, assuming the game is any good to begin with. On the other hand, sometimes writer narrative can be done really well - IMO, especially if the characters are really well done - but it still needs the writer to hold themselves back in order to appreciate the power of the player's agency. Stick to the "less is more" adage, and people will appreciate it. (Oh, look, it's almost as if this post is allegorically relevant to Retinue's posting habits)

 

[NewFag]

Emergent Narrative

He's improving. So it's best not to brush off his apparent insanity as a troll attempt so quickly.

Edit: Seems it's an older post, before he announced his intent to depart from our (un)holy grounds. Interesting yet quirky poster. Won't be missed.

 

[DwarvenFood]

hey DraQ good to see you back, missed you for a while since the forum got upgraded (or just missed the threads you post in).

 

[EG]

Stories are good, mkay?

Everything in balance.