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Someone make a sequel for... type in yours

otsego

Cipher
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
211
Crusader: No Regret.

We almost had one named No Mercy:(
crusadernomercy.gif
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
2,621
Forgot about Jedi Knight. Would love a faithful sequel with good multiplayer, but never gonna happen.
I still don’t understand why this never happened. Outcast and Academy both sold really well, and it’s not as though it would need to dumb down the gameplay to make it work on consoles. Lucasarts just shrugged and left good money sitting on the table.

It probably has less to do with LucasArts and more to do with Raven doing Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and those X-Men Legends games between 2003 and 2006. Raven Software had been owned by Activision since the late '90s, they did a couple Star Wars game that LucasArts published, but after the release of Academy they're just doing games that Activision publishes themselves. Kind of lucky those two game even happened, because the days of a developer owned by Activision making games for another publisher are long past. LucasArt did try developing some Jedi games internally, that Obi-Wan game that started on PC (and was meant to have mouse controlled Lightsaber movement) that ended up on Xbox; (it's not good, and I'd imagine it's why they looked to an outside developer for Jedi Knight 2) then there's Force Unleashed, which started planning in 2004, (so the year after Jedi Academy game out) came out in 2008, and is one of the worst video games I've ever played.

Now what is kind of weird is that in the seven years between Jedi Academy and doing UI, DLC, and multiplayer stuff for CoD games they never made anything like Jedi Academy again. Like we never just got something like those, but with Hexen. Then again it's also weird we never essentially got them doing Soldier of Fortune 3 as a Call of Duty game. That would've been the preferred way of them doing CoD instead of what happened for about a decade.

It is however kind of weird LucasArts didn't get The Collective, who did Emperor's Tomb and Revenge of the Sith for them, to do some new Jedi game after Sith. Also too bad they never pulled in some little Japanese developer like PlatinumGames or FromSoftware to make some Jedi game. Seems they could've gotten the team from Midway that did that Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy to do some Dark Forces game or something; that game still has the most fun psychic powers in a game, so them doing that in some Star Wars Kyle Katarn game or something would have been great. LucasArts was however in a cool little interesting period there in the 2000s, (at least until the late 2000s) in the two years after Jedi Academy they put out: Gladius, Armed and Dangerous, Star Wars Battlefront, KotOR 2, Mercenaries, Republic Commando, and the whole Lego themed licensed game thing kicks off with Lego Star Wars.
 

hellbent

Augur
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
305
Yeah, I know some of these already technically have sequels. I'm talking about REAL sequels, not shovelware garbage.

Arx Fatalis
Incubation
Kohan / Ahriman's Gift (using a 2D engine instead of the shitty 3d conversion called Kohan II)
Battle Brothers
Nocturne (shame that all we got was the Blair Witch games)
VTM Bloodlines (a real sequel, not the currently vapourware shit)
Freedom Force 3
A new 2D turn based Gold Box game for the first time since Dark Queen of Krynn.
Arcanum (in the same universe but with a new combat engine)
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
2,621
I want sequels for: Jedi Knight, Croc, Quake, Heroes of Might&Magic, Revenant, MDK, isometric Fallout, Arcanum, Hidden & Dangerous, Jagged Alliance, MTG: Shandalar, Sid Meier's: Pirates!, Patrician, Tomb Raider, Ultima Underworld, Ultima, Z, Jazz Jackrabbit, Unreal, Half-Life, Settlers, Civilization, UFO: Enemy Unknown, X-COM: Apocalypse, Wolfenstein, Knights of the Chalice, Deus Ex, Soldier of Fortune, BloodRayne, proper Age of Wonders, Commandos, Dominions, W40k Dawn of War, Warcraft, Baldies, Worms, Evil Islands, Descent, Sky Fox, Conan, Evolva, Freedom Fighters, Halo, FTL, Grimoire, Hexplore, Ignition, Knights of Honor, NEO Scavenger, Overlord, Dungeon Keeper, Populous, Red Alert, Sacred, Shadowrun, Space Rangers, SW: KOTOR, Temple of Elemental Evil, proper Thief, Stronghold, UT, XIII, Zax, Warlords, Starcraft, Underrail, Age of Decadence, Freelancer, Celtic Kings, Armed and Dangerous, Lemmings, Brave Dwarves, Urtuk, Battle Brothers, Risk of Rain, Prince of Persia, Gothic, Elex, Cossacks, Shipwreckers / Overboard, isometric Syndicate, Dune, Cannon Fodder, Lost Vikings, Blackthorne.... and many more that I don't remember right now.

MDK just kind of not being a thing after being kind of a big deal with the first game is one of those weird things. A lot of stuff, while its too bad they never kept going, you can at least see why they didn't keep going. But MDK is just one of those ones where it doesn't make any sense. Interplay just completely mismanagement Shiny, Messiah should've been on Xbox, there's so many early 2000s PC games that would've likely gone so much better if they weren't exclusive PC...basically the only PC developers that survived the 2000s jumped to XBOX.

Tomb Raider is another weird thing. The first is a pre Mario 64 3D platformer, yet the series never learned anything from Mario 64, and then they started doing shit Uncharted "platforming" with the second reboot. Combat wise it's like a John Woo movie, fighting Skater Boy looks like something out of The Matrix or Max Payne, yet they never got into all that wall running Matrix stuff and there never was a Tomb Raider that played like Max Payne. It's actually kind of weird thinking about it, but from the original all the way up to Underworld in 2008 they stayed with lock-on instead of moving onto the free aim of third person shooters. They also never got bigger on the melee side of things despite DMC coming out in 2001.
 

mediocrepoet

En français: poètemédiocre!
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
5,220
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Dragon's Dogma, goddammit.

Temple of Elemental Evil - this could've really gone places with different module adaptations, etc.
 

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
777
@Assisted Living Gozilla:
For me, Tomb Raider and Super Mario 64 are fundamentally different games. So saying, that the later Tomb Raider games "haven't learned anything from SM64" doesn't make any sense at all.


They are both 3D, but that is basically the only thing that they have in common.
Yes, SM64 is a 3D platformer, but the original Tomb Raider not really.

It is more of a 3D exploration game with some 3rd shooter sequences included. Basically - and I'm sure that the inspiration came from that game - it is Prince of Persia in 3D. Even many traps are similar.


The reason the later games of Core Design got a little bit of a decline was one hand too much pressure from the publisher (Eidos) and a too small developer team, which was also not experienced in big budget projects that were requested, when they released Angel of Darkness basically unfinished.


The inspiration between Tomb Raider and Prince of Persia was vice versa. The Sands of Time Trilogy got some inspiration from Tomb Raider and than the second Tomb Raider reboot got it's inspiration from the PoP Reboot - and not from Uncharted like you claimed, which was published one year after Legend.
(Probably Uncharted was more of a copycat of Tomb Raider Legend).


Also I don't agree with your evaluation that Shiny/Interplay should have pandered more to the X-Box to survive - but this is a minor point.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
2,621
They are and they aren't. They aren't in that they are both 3D platformers. They are in how they handle platforming; in the case of Tomb Raider it's handled very very stiffly. Now Tomb Raider is pre Mario 64, but the series could have learn something from that game, as far as how it feels to move and jump in a 3D space anyways.

Prince of Persia is a platformer, and the original Tomb Raider is very much a 3D platformer. It's what they sold it on back when it was new, and pushing that forward was something Tony Gard talked up when showing off that Galleon game that was in development for years.

I don't even know what pandering to the Xbox even means. I'm just simply saying they should have put their shit on the fucking system if they didn't want to die with all the other PC developers that didn't also put stuff on the Xbox in the 2000s. It's not like Messiah couldn't have worked on the Xbox; could have released the PC version when they did, and port it over for the 2001 system launch along with Max Payne. PC gaming was fuck dead as a door nail in the 2000s outside of like RollerCoaster Tycoon, Blizzard games, The Sims, and Half-Life 2; and it wouldn't come back as any kind of force in America outside a couple giant game here or there until like 2010 with the Steam store. Like only a few things really sold, most stuff failed, and World of Warcraft did so well it made the sales figures for the PC market look like it wasn't a total failure...and then Minecraft comes and is the next big PC success, and Steam makes the market viable for more than a handful of games in a decade. I'd have happily seen stuff like Messiah and Vampire: The Masauerade - Bloodlines also come to Xbox if there was at all a chance they'd do better than they did.
 

Unreal

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
1,570
Location
The Centre of the World
I don't like Tomb Raider, but the impression I got from what I played of it was that it was trying to be realistic (as much as an old game could) and was meant to played very deliberately. Mario 64 really is irrelevant.
 

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
777
The problem with game definitions like "3D platformer" is, that they change over the time.
For example, Sierra was marketing their first AGI adventures like Kings Quest as "3D Highres Adventures". I guess, today you wouldn't call that neither "Highres" nor "3D" anymore: ;)
331690-king-s-quest-amiga-screenshot-near-the-castle-doors.png


The term, with which the media describes Tomb Raider (old and new) today is Cinematic Action Adventure.
At the time, when Tomb Raider was released, Action Adventure was used for other types of games though, meaning a mixture of classic adventure games with action sequences. Examples are Outcast and Veil of Darkness.
So Tony Gard was using a different time at that time.

TLDR: We are using the same names, but are probably meaning different things.


Whatever the definition, the basic gameplay of all the Tomb Raiders and SM64 is very different.
As Unreal said, Tomb Raider tried to be more "realistic". The stiffness is more a relic of its time and not present anymore in the newer games.

Also the story and the cinematic aspect were present from the very beginning of the series.
That combined with the (at that time) unique character of Lara Croft was a huge contribution to the success of that game.


The background story of Mario64 on the other hand, is almost non-existent and only shown in two or three text boxes at the beginning.



Regarding Shiny: The reason that Shiny disappeared, was simply that their last games like Messiah were simply not very good and had nothing to do with publishing on the X-Box.
The PC (apart maybe from adventure games) was not dead at all. I really don't know, how you got the idea. There were lots of different games from different genres that were successful. You already named a few like Half Life 2.
 
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
520
Location
The western road to Erromon.
The Battle for Middle Earth II - Bigger battles. A return to similar fortress structure from BFME I but with the customization of II. Silmarillion or Umbar/Harad campaign focus. Earlier in the timeline.

Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage - Focus on the Swallower of Worlds and the origins of Chaos. Balance enemy use of offensive spells. More quests, more dialog.

LA: Noire - San Francisco or Detroit setting, clarify the interrogation choices, open-world kept reasonable in scale but built vertically. Better gunplay.

Icewind Dale II - No shitty reused areas this time, maintain the primary focus on great combat scenarios like the Shaengarne but toss in some choice and consequence for us storyfags.

Thief: Deadly Shadows - More of the same.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Set in the First Crusade from the point of view of Fulcher of Chartres or someone close to him. Constantinople - Dorylaeum - Antioch - Jerusalem.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
6,583
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
(franchises)


BAT
arcatera
archimedean dynasty
dark earth
dreamweb
dragonsphere
fragile alliance
enemy infestation
malkari
MDK
pax imperia
rex nebular
terranova
Z
total annihilation
cutthroats
blade of darkness
nexus
riddick
mechcommander
 

Gandalf

Savant
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
681
Darkan, Summoner, Earthworm Jim, Commander Keen, Prehistoric, E.V.O., Chaos Engine, Black & White, Flashback, System Shock, SIN, Blood, Kingpin, Heavy Gear to add a couple more.
 

Chippy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
4,841
Baldur's Gate 1, TOTSC, 2, & TOB.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
2,621
I don't like Tomb Raider, but the impression I got from what I played of it was that it was trying to be realistic (as much as an old game could) and was meant to played very deliberately. Mario 64 really is irrelevant.

It's relevant in so far as how well it controls. You could still have that nice feeling within a more realistic feeling game. The realism part has more to do with jump heights, distances, animations, and whether or not you have control of moment in the air.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
2,621
The problem with game definitions like "3D platformer" is, that they change over the time.
For example, Sierra was marketing their first AGI adventures like Kings Quest as "3D Highres Adventures". I guess, today you wouldn't call that neither "Highres" nor "3D" anymore: ;)
331690-king-s-quest-amiga-screenshot-near-the-castle-doors.png


The term, with which the media describes Tomb Raider (old and new) today is Cinematic Action Adventure.
At the time, when Tomb Raider was released, Action Adventure was used for other types of games though, meaning a mixture of classic adventure games with action sequences. Examples are Outcast and Veil of Darkness.
So Tony Gard was using a different time at that time.

TLDR: We are using the same names, but are probably meaning different things.


Whatever the definition, the basic gameplay of all the Tomb Raiders and SM64 is very different.
As Unreal said, Tomb Raider tried to be more "realistic". The stiffness is more a relic of its time and not present anymore in the newer games.

Also the story and the cinematic aspect were present from the very beginning of the series.
That combined with the (at that time) unique character of Lara Croft was a huge contribution to the success of that game.


The background story of Mario64 on the other hand, is almost non-existent and only shown in two or three text boxes at the beginning.



Regarding Shiny: The reason that Shiny disappeared, was simply that their last games like Messiah were simply not very good and had nothing to do with publishing on the X-Box.
The PC (apart maybe from adventure games) was not dead at all. I really don't know, how you got the idea. There were lots of different games from different genres that were successful. You already named a few like Half Life 2.

No, this is fucking stupid, the original Tomb Raider game is a platformer game in 3D and has pretty pure platformimg in it. You could say it's controls are a relic of the time, but then Mario 64 came out the same year, and those controls were still there in sequels and remakes. New Tomb Raider isn't even the same kind of game as the originals.

The more you talk the more I think you haven't even played the original Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider and Outcast are not similar games. And Tomb Raider is a platformer...a example of platforming in Tomb Raider:



If someone told you they liked the old Tomb Raider games, and asked for something similar, and you recommend Outcast, and they played it on that recommendation; well, I can only guess after playing it they'd wonder if you understood the question. That is unless they were like: I like Tomb Raider, but I wish it was all flat and there wasn't any platforming at all.

Yes, the basic gameplay of Tomb Raider and Mario 64 was very different, but only in so far as Mario 64 cracked the code on how to make a 3D platformer actually feel good to control. The story and cinematic aspect don't have jack shit to do with anything I'm even talking about, which is purely about gameplay in relation to how it feels to move around.

The PC was dead in the 2000s. And no, there were not lots of different games from different genres that were successful at the time, at least not in North America. I didn't just name a few, I basically named them all, which is very little in the way of success for a span of ten years, or even a span of two years. This isn't to say there weren't good games on PC at the time, but there was very little that did really well until Steam came around and actually became a shop. Reporting on the PC market was pretty doom and gloom at a certain point in the 2000s because nothing besides World of Warcraft and The Sims was really selling in America, and until World of Warcraft the PC market didn't make up much of video games sales. Now the market wasn't dead over in Korea, where games like Lineage did extremely well, and where Blizzard games did even better and would get tie-in promotions on chips and pop.
 

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
777
Dude, you clearly haven't read or understood anything I wrote!


I never said, that Tomb Raider or Outcast are the same games - quite completely the contrary!

What I wrote is, that the term "Action Adventure" is now used to describes games like Tomb Raider whereas 25 years it was used to describe completely different games like Outcast.
I already described the difference of use of this term here:
At the time, when Tomb Raider was released, Action Adventure was used for other types of games though, meaning a mixture of classic adventure games with action sequences. Examples are Outcast and Veil of Darkness.
The point is, if Toby Gard used the term "3D platformer" 25 years ago that doesn't mean he is talking about the same type of game it describes today!

I even put a TLDR for you there (which you obviously didn't read or didn't get):
TLDR: We are using the same names, but are probably meaning different things.


So with this, the rest of your post and "arguments" goes completely down the drain.... ;)


To say, that Mario64 and Tomb Raider were similar games, is utterly retarded!
I already listed enough points of differences. Here is another one: I missed the scenes were Mario is shooting enemies with his weapon arsenal - like at the end of the video you posted.
And where are the pushing block puzzles in Mario?

So your own video proves you wrong! ;)


Fact is: All of the different Tomb Raider games from the different reboots and all of the Uncharted games have much more in common with each other than any of these games have with Mario64!
They are different games with different gameplay for different target audiences. And that is totally OK.

This should be pretty obvious for anyone who has played any of these games.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
2,849
Location
デゼニランド
Chaos Overlords -- actually, a remaster/remake with QoL features will do just fine. Adding the ability to send orders to all idle units and give them long-term plans would be nice, since micro-managing dozens of gangs per turn can get pretty tiring if there's not much going on. Fortunately, sequel appears to be on the way since the dev found his original contract and means to deal with a copyright troll who halted the progress about six years ago.

Droiyan, but in the vein of the original (commercial) game -- turn-based tactics with a tiny team maneuvering on the map while fighting hordes of enemies. The sequel moved to a cyberpunk setting (incline) but also became a crappy Diablo clone (massive decline). Take the setting of the sequel and gimme battles from the original and I'll open my wallet.

Cholo -- given the modern tech and bigger possibilities, I'd like to see a similar game with more robot types and more things to do, possibly adding the ability to give orders to idle player-controlled robots on the map to create RTS-like scenarios as you play, or just making it easier to move several units from point A to point B.
 

Nifft Batuff

Cipher
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
2,274
Cholo -- given the modern tech and bigger possibilities, I'd like to see a similar game with more robot types and more things to do, possibly adding the ability to give orders to idle player-controlled robots on the map to create RTS-like scenarios as you play, or just making it easier to move several units from point A to point B.
maybe not what you are looking for, but It had already a (free) remake in 2005.
https://www.ovine.net/games
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
2,849
Location
デゼニランド
Cholo -- given the modern tech and bigger possibilities, I'd like to see a similar game with more robot types and more things to do, possibly adding the ability to give orders to idle player-controlled robots on the map to create RTS-like scenarios as you play, or just making it easier to move several units from point A to point B.
maybe not what you are looking for, but It had already a (free) remake in 2005.
https://www.ovine.net/games
I've played it. It's pretty good, but I can't help but think there's potential to do more with this concept.
 
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