Sonic the Hedgehog Appreciation Thread

[Louis_Cypher]

Like the Metroid thread, except with more blue spikes. In spite of how Sonic is possibly the most debased series in gaming, never survived the 2D to 3D transition, and I haven't really enjoyed a single 3D Sonic game; the series was once glorious and I remain a kinda lapsed fan. Sonic has now expanded into so many other media, including cartoons and comics, that he probably transcended his gaming origins into a generally popular cartoon character among kids.

The core experience:

• - Sonic the Hedgehog 1
• - Sonic the Hedgehog CD
  
• - Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  
• - Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
• - Sonic Mania

Some handheld titles:

• - Sonic & Tails 1 / Sonic Chaos
• - Sonic & Tails 2 / Sonic Triple Trouble
• - Tails Adventure

Salvage of the decline:

• - Sonic Adventure 1
• - Sonic Adventure 2
  
• - Sonic Advance 1
• - Sonic Advance 2
• - Sonic Advance 3
  
• - Sonic Colours
• - Sonic Generations

I'm not sure there is much worth playing from that 3D era honestly, even the handheld titles lacked the original aesthetic of the 16-bit games. Sonic Mania is the only good Sonic game since the Mega Drive. I think Sonic could probably make a good Metroidvania, if you ditch the concept of time limit stages, and just made a 2D side-scroller with exploration.

In Britain, the character formed the basis of the popular British 'Sonic the Comic', which at one point was the most popular comic in British publication, surpassing 2000 AD. They took the Sega of America outline of an alien planet occupied by Dr Robotnik and ran with it, turning the story into a guerilla war. People still hold it in high regard, but the Americans also had their own popular comic title which is more famous in the states.

Sonic, a hedgehog from Green Hill Zone on South Island, leader of the freedom fighters against Robotnik

Tails, a mutant two-tailed fox, who is Sonic's pilot and mechanic, who may hail from Emerald Hill Zone

Knuckles, the last of his echidna race, sole survivor of his ancient people's civilization on Angel Island

Dr Ivo Robotnik, absolute ruler and dictator of the planet Moebius, who's capital lie's in Metropolis Zone

Robotnik's ultimate superweapon; the Death Egg, an orbital battlestation armed with two superlasers

Something about Sonic seems to inspire loyalty. I think perhaps the art style played a part. In the earlier aesthetic, Sonic's planet Moebius had a weird 'ancient ruins reclaimed by nature' taken over by 'industrial dystopia' look. It seemed like there were no humans other than Robotnik, and the planet was inhabited by races of animal. Later, the Japanese lore started to supercede the Sega of America lore, so Sonic's planet started to feature human cities in the 3D era, and the old aesthetic was diluted.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Sonic Spinball was absolute shit.

 

[Ash]

Them's fightin words motherfucker! Sonic Spinball was badass...for a pinball game.

Not sure why we need a sonic thread. The glory was short-lived (3 years?) before it went to absolute shit. The first few games themselves were good (alright gameplay, nice art, very nice music), but nothing really special, even for early 90s which are the lesser years of the golden decade (though still produced tons of gud shit).

I loved the blue shittalker as a kid, probably more than most, but then I quickly moved on to better games. Not sure how creepy deranged fandoms of obsessed weirdos derived from this character many years later...

Anyhow, cool games but the obscene popularity was largely due to Sega's aggressive marketing push. I rate the series (in its glory days) and associated media (e.g TV show) 7/10. Charming and good for what it is.

the series was once glorious and I remain a kinda lapsed fan.

I value your honesty, at least.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Nothing special... I dunno. I think they were pretty important. Arguably Sonic was the best 'flagship character' game of the 16-bit generation. I liked Mario games too back then, so it's tough, pitting 'Super Mario World' against 'Sonic 3 & Knuckles', but I would rather play the latter personally; I think it's peak Sonic. It's not an inconsiderable achievement, being the best mascot game in a watershed era of gaming, and beating Nintendo at the height of their power. This poll has them tight:

The Greatest Platformer Video Games

1. Super Metroid

2. Super Mario World

3. Sonic 3

You are right that his popularity was probably tied into the cartoons, and the comics (also now the Jim Carrey movie). In terms of gamer opinion, the series has been hanging on by life support in the 3D era, trading off the massive fame he gained as Sega's mascot. Arguably stuff like that Saturday morning cartoon, or that later anime, despite being again a really different take on the material, kept interest alive while the games sucked, so that it guaranteed kids would buy the latest bad title:

Maybe Sega could adopt the 'Metroid Dread' approach to keeping 2D and 3D Sonic as different sub-series. Side-scrolling is a far more suitable format to a game involving rolling, and it might be a way for the series to satisfy the more discriminating gamers. Pump out a decent open-world or semi-open world game like Breath of the Wild, for the kids (someone still seems to buy these Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic and the Black Knight, or Sonic Lost World type titles), but continue the side-scrolling series separately as Sonic 5, Sonic 6, Sonic 7, etc, in their own universe as the core series of the franchise.

 

[Ash]

Arguably Sonic was the best 'flagship character' game of the 16-bit generation.

Sure....but why is this important?

I liked Mario games too back then, so it's tough, pitting 'Super Mario World' against 'Sonic 3 & Knuckles', but I would rather play the latter personally; I think it's peak Sonic. It's not an inconsiderable achievement, being the best mascot game in a watershed era of gaming, and beating Nintendo at the height of their power.

Bro...

SMB3 >>>> SMW. 3 is ridiculously better than World. Much decline.

Sonic 1 or 2 >> 3 & Knuckles

 

[Falksi]

I was a SEGA fanboy as a kid and was hyped up for Sonic BIG time. The Megadrive was, and to me still is, THE greatest gaming console of all time, and I absolutely couldn't wait for Sonic to hit.

Some of the hype I was drawn in by as follows.......

"Think fast"
"He's the fastest critter the world has ever seen"
"He blazes his way through hilly pastures"
"Tricks gadgets and speed"
"Don't blink or you might just miss him"
"ZOOM through 6 worlds"
"Best game ever"

And what did I get? This.......



A ridiculously SLOW affair, which not only had levels designed to smash you in the face every time you actually got up to speed, but which also set an objective of keeping your rings to finish the game properly. Thus meaning a steady, considered approach rather than a fast chaotic one was not only encouraged, but essential. It was DULL.

And that wouldn't be so bad if Sonic himself controlled a bit better. But that initially sluggish inertia is fucking horrible, and again so slow.

So I detested the original Sonic so much that I went and bought a Super Famicom for Super Mario World, which gave me a WAY better platforming thrive. And it's actually the game that turned me from SEGA fanboy into a Nintendo fan & then PC gamer. I still loved the Megadrive, but Sonic was probably the most disappointing game I've ever played, and the game which taught me to ignore hype.

I borrowed Sonic 2 as a kid and found it to be much better, but still nowhere near the heady heights of the Mario games. I've played that and many of the others over the years and somewhere in the plethora of Sonic games are a few decent titles. But I'm yet to play a Sonic game which I'd call a classic. He's got the aesthetics and I loved his edgyness when he arrived, but the games themselves are ones that I never play despite owning them.

Iconic? Most definitely. But a great series of games? No. Pretty average at best.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Sonic 3 & Knuckles, for me personally, is my favorite. I love the sprites, the levels, the colours, the music, etc. I'm not an expert in game design, but I know some people say Sonic 2 is the tighter game from a technical perspective, and hold it as the peak of the franchise. You are both right that a lot of Sonic's popularity was marketing hype; but it's kinda like how He-Man was originally designed to sell Mattel toys, but became a popular little setting for some people, who built memories in it; I think self-aware fans probably accept the reality of some of the fandom being a product of a consumer campaign as part of the parcel. Pretty good character Sega of Japan designed at the end of the day. A lot of my friends at school were mega into the marketing hype train and I probably got into it from them, reading the British comics first.

 

[Falksi]

If SEGA had have stuck to what they were good at, namely hi octane in your face arcade experiences such as Afterburner, Streets of Rage, Thunderforce 3 etc. - then maybe they'd still be developing console's today. They were faggots for selling out and trying to copy the cutesy Nintendo model, and ultimately got bummed for it.

 

[Ash]

And what did I get? This.......

Dat music tho.

A large part of my fondness for sonic is the banging tunes. Mario wished he had those jams. And yeah Sonic 1 physics were pretty janky, but there was still plenty great to like about the gameplay. Spring Yard Zone comes to mind.

Mario had superior gameplay, but Sonic was still competent, and had great art and music. Ultimately Mario wins for me, mainly for SMB3. Solid.

The Megadrive was, and to me still is, THE greatest gaming console of all time

Meh. Quite a few decent games and I owned a lot, but it is one of the lesser gaming platforms to me for sure. But you rant and rave about golden axe of all things as if it is some amazing 10/10 stone cold classic, clearly we are just very different in what we expect from a game. To me it's just a flying kick simulator with cool music and art. Streets of Rage 1 or 3 is more my beat em up.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

Sonic 1 Japanese cover quote:

Don't just sit there and waste your
precious time. When you want to do something, do it right away.
Do it when you can. It's the only way to live a life without regrets.

Sonic CD Japanese cover quote (back):

"Ask not what others can do for you, but what you can do for others." -Sonic

Sonic & Knuckles Japanese cover quote:

SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND RESTS.
DON'T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON'T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

 

[lightbane]

I feel sorry for Sonic, as the poor thing is not allowed to die, many of his newer games are utter shit, and his fanbase is completely and utterly deranged with no redemption possible.

 

[Falksi]

And what did I get? This.......

Dat music tho.

A large part of my fondness for sonic is the banging tunes. Mario wished he had those jams. And yeah Sonic 1 physics were pretty janky, but there was still plenty great to like about the gameplay. Spring Yard Zone comes to mind.

Mario had superior gameplay, but Sonic was still competent, and had great art and music. Ultimately Mario wins for me, mainly for SMB3. Solid.

The Megadrive was, and to me still is, THE greatest gaming console of all time

Meh. Quite a few decent games and I owned a lot, but it is one of the lesser gaming platforms to me for sure. But you rant and rave about golden axe of all things as if it is some amazing 10/10 stone cold classic, clearly we are just very different in what we expect from a game. To me it's just a flying kick simulator with cool music and art. Streets of Rage 1 or 3 is more my beat em up.

The music's hit and miss for me, but when it does hit yeah it hits excellently. And it hits more than it misses too.

But "competent" is as high a praise as I think Sonic 1 deserves. As an actual experience it's just dull IMO.

With the Megadrive it just nails that arcade experience. SOR it's definitely a better all round Beat 'em Up, but Golden Axe's gameplay is still brilliant IMO. Not only does it work the environments nicely so you can attack in different ways and do stuff like lure & knock enemies to their doom, but the placement of beasts which you can ride really add to the gameplay & sense of adventure. So it's pacing constantly keeps you on your toes. Something which, as ace as they are, SOR doesn't have.

And the sense of adventure in Golden Axe in general is fantastic. A village on the back of a giant turtle, flying on the back of a giant eagle, summoning dragons, earthquakes, lightening strikes etc. It just captures the fantasy vibe mint.

I get the criticism about the flying kick though. You definitely have to retrain yourself from abusing that to enjoy it. But that said the stun lock is the same for SOR1, on normal difficulty you can waltz your way through the game abusing that tactic, with only the odd enemy & boss forcing you to change it up.

Either way SOR & Golden Axe are to me both a great series of game. I agree SOR definitely the better.

 

[Beans00]

I picked up a sega genesis around 2001 at a discount electronics shop for like 5$, got sonic 2 for .25$. I got some other genesis games but they were all terrible except for sonic 2.
I had fun with it, never played another sonic.

 

[Falksi]

I picked up a sega genesis around 2001 at a discount electronics shop for like 5$, got sonic 2 for .25$. I got some other genesis games but they were all terrible except for sonic 2.
I had fun with it, never played another sonic.

That's like falling into a bucket full of tits, and coming out sucking your thumb.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

IIRC someone modded Sonic Generations to be able to play the Sonic Unleashed daytime levels and skipping the much-maligned night werehog ones.

 

[Ezekiel]

How I wish he still looked like this in all the games and shows. Instead of being the lanky, tall, long-haired, green-eyed punk he is now. It's like Sega forgot he was a toon for kids.

 

[Tavar]

My first game ever was Sonic 1 back in the day, so I love the original Sonics with all my heart. It is incredibly sad that Sega refuses to make decent Sonic games: Sonic Mania is a glorified fan game (but still leagues beyond anything which Sega did since Sonic & Knuckles) which was well received and sold well and because Sega hates money they refuse to make a sequel to it. No wonder they've become irrelevant if they're that retarded.

 

[Beans00]

I picked up a sega genesis around 2001 at a discount electronics shop for like 5$, got sonic 2 for .25$. I got some other genesis games but they were all terrible except for sonic 2.
I had fun with it, never played another sonic.

That's like falling into a bucket full of tits, and coming out sucking your thumb.

Are you so ass blasted over me calling morrowind shit that you're going to start quoting me with random autism now?

 

[Falksi]

I picked up a sega genesis around 2001 at a discount electronics shop for like 5$, got sonic 2 for .25$. I got some other genesis games but they were all terrible except for sonic 2.
I had fun with it, never played another sonic.

That's like falling into a bucket full of tits, and coming out sucking your thumb.

Are you so ass blasted over me calling morrowind shit that you're going to start quoting me with random autism now?

You called Morrowind shit?

 

[deama]

I never really liked any of the sonic games, even the 2D ones. The biggest issue for me was that the games just felt slow. Yeah you can sometimes run fast, but a lot of the time it forces you to go slow, especially in later levels.
The closest to what I think a sonic game should be, were the nu-gen sonic levels from sonic generations, but that's still not that good.

 

[lightbane]

How I wish he still looked like this in all the games and shows. Instead of being the lanky, tall, long-haired, green-eyed punk he is now. It's like Sega forgot he was a toon for kids.

Never forget:



Also, Shadow the Edgehog.

 

[NoSoup4you]

The first two were ok, but the most notable thing about Sonic to me is Sonichu.

 

[Louis_Cypher]

Speaking of how taxman made a better Sonic game than Sega with Sonic Mania, there is a festival called SAGE where people show some really nice looking fan games. Sega could throw them a bit of money and maybe pay off with another Mania or two.... Maybe with the Sonic movie being an unexpected success, the Hedgehog might finally get a little more care from Sega, you never know.

 

[Terra]

Loved Sonic the Comic as a kid, so that brought back memories; still remember that Death Egg panel all these years later. Sonic 1-3 & K were all fantastic. Things started to go awry with 3D; just really slow and nothing like the other games, but still fun to play through once. Spinball was bastard hard and I wasn't a huge fan in retrospect.

Finally got to experience Sonic Cd via emulation a few years back and I just felt like it was a bit of a disaster from a level design standpoint, there was no flow to a lot of the levels, some really oddly placed props that were just designed to kill speed, really didn't like it at all.

After that there was the succession of 3D entries, none of which I was particularly fond of, played Adventure 1 on the Gamecube, which was alright I guess. SEGA just entered the oh-so-familiar period of deciding that nobody wanted to play a 2D entry that was in the same vein of the originals and so we were plagued with 3D entries of dubious quality for years.

Sonic 4 rolled around and holy shit - talk about a profound misunderstanding of what made the originals great. Absolutely horrendous.

Generations finally earned back some goodwill, the Green Hill & Chemical Plant recreations 3D with 2D gameplay were excellent (great music remixes too) and the gameplay wasn't all that bad even in the 3D stages. Granted the game's strongest showing were the earlier levels, things tapered off a bit in later stages where they recreated levels from the various crappy 3D entries I hadn't played. Still, at least a little bit of effort was made towards bringing back the classic 2D gameplay, so there was some hope. I think then Sega followed this up with Forces (I think) so apparently lessons were not learned.

However, some 20+ years later, the stars apparently aligned and we got Sonic Mania. Holy shit, this was the real Sonic 4 I'd been waiting for all these years. Retaining the original gameplay and art aesthetic, it may be my favourite entry. Proof that in some rare instances, dedicated fans can do better than the original developers, I'd give a new Sonic game to the Mania devs in a heartbeat, truly stellar. Though, I hear there's no plans for more entries in the same vein. Sad if true.

Ultimately, someone at Sega has got a good head on their shoulders; they're giving us Sonic Mania, Streets of Rage 4, Yakuza, an increasing numbers of PC ports, Atlus games starting to come to PC; it's been a number of very impressive years for Sega in general and whoever if making these decisions is worthy of praise. The success of these titles should underline what fans want - nobody wants shitty 3D entries, Mania shows that. Clearly there is someone at Sega that is actually listening to what long time fans want as these are real stridess forward for the company in recent years - they just need to keep the ball rolling and deliver what people ask for.

Here's another free tip Sega - Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank churning out Fire Emblems while you've fucked up & squandered your own Shining Force series because somebody at Sega thinks fans want shitty ARPG Shining games. They don't. Reboot it in the same style of the classic games and the money is there for the taking.

Robotnik > Eggman.

 

[Ash]

Speaking of how taxman made a better Sonic game than Sega with Sonic Mania, there is a festival called SAGE where people show some really nice looking fan games. Sega could throw them a bit of money and maybe pay off with another Mania or two.... Maybe with the Sonic movie being an unexpected success, the Hedgehog might finally get a little more care from Sega, you never know.

Imagine caring this much about Sonic the Hedgehog, especially 30 years later lol. Cute. Are you a furry degenerate?

Still, I don't take issue with what you're saying. Seem like a nice fellow. Just busting your balls enjoy what you enjoy.

Cough Metroid series is overrated too