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KickStarter Spaceshock - Sci-Fi Turn Based Dungeon Crawl

zeitgeist

Magister
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
1,444
At the top funding goal this game won't be an ordinary Dungeon crawler anymore. There is no reason giving to the community dungeon crawler if we achieve the top funding goal. The players will get an RPG game like DA or ME for their money. Both existing prototypes are meant for base game at low funding goals.
This is a profoundly silly concept.
 

Jashiin

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,440
This is a really weird pitch then. It's like a band collection money for a rock album which might also be a disco album for those who prefer that..., but if they hit top funding they will burn their equipment and write and record a classical symphony..

If you have a dream of creating a me/da type of game then go for it no question. But you are now pitching 3 different concepts which will attract 3 different audiences and if you are really succesful you will alienate and dissapoint two thirds of your backers.
 

Jonsnovv

Ideas Unbound Studio
Developer
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This forum is the best with no doubt. You all are probably right. Space Shock will be dungeon crawler. We will add more content rather than change the game concept. The main question is TB or RT combat. Look forward to seeing more suggestions and comments related to combat system.
 

DeepOcean

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Nov 8, 2012
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this is only a concept of the Turn-based combat, nothing has been balanced (energy costs, damage...) and this is only from 1st person PoV, will be only used in the Base game at low funding goals (will be replaced by Dragon Age/Baldur's Gate style combat with tactical pause and 3rd person PoV).

I'm not sure I get it. So the current prototype is first person turn-based dungeon exploration and combat, but as a stretch goal you will turn it into... real-time with pause isometric exploration and combat? Not that I care a lot - do whatever kind of game you want to make - but doesn't that sound a bit weird?

At the top funding goal this game won't be an ordinary Dungeon crawler anymore. There is no reason giving to the community dungeon crawler if we achieve the top funding goal. The players will get an RPG game like DA or ME for their money. Both existing prototypes are meant for base game at low funding goals.
If you want to make a Baldurs gate 2/Dragon age game, fine, if it is what you really want but as Crooked bee said, people who pledged for a dungeon crawler are going to be pissed of when the game turn out to be a Baldurs gate style game and Infinity engine fans that don't like Dungeon crawling aren't going to pledge because they don't know if the game is going to be funded enough to become a Baldurs gate style game. If making a Dungeon Crawler is cheaper it means that you can make a bigger game, there is nothing stopping you from doing a full Dungeon Crawler game, you can even put some towns to explore, add some advanced RPG mechanics and NPC interactions without necessarily change all the base gameplay.
 

handup

Educated
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
91
These are 2 very different demographics you're aiming for with this game, and it might lead to the interesting predicament of people not pledging, despite wanting the game, for fear of it turning into a game they don't want. Which means that it will be impossible to sell the game based on the gameplay mechanics. And no offense, but I don't find your game interesting enough from an aesthetic or narrative point of view, to warrant a pledge.

So I have to ask, what kind of game are you selling exactly? Because the only consistent element I see is SPACE DUNGEONS!, which, frankly is not really all that original.

Nevermind.
 

Jashiin

Arcane
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I would suggest you find someone who can help you get a good idea of what it is you want to do. Make a plan and stick to it.
 

Crooked Bee

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I would suggest you find someone who can help you get a good idea of what it is you want to do. Make a plan and stick to it.

I agree. FOCUS your pitch. Decide what elements exactly you want the game to have - i.e., turn-based combat and space station dungeons, but also, for example, space 'hubs' with NPCs and dialogue interaction, etc. See what elements of other first-person games you would like to incorporate (and be sure to indicate it in your pitch!). Do a design document, basically.

EDIT. There should also be some name-throwing, but not too confusing. DO NOT mix together Wizardry and Baldur's Gate, for example; you want want to appeal to Wizardry or Gold Box fans, say you want to make a sci-fi spiritual successor to those games; if you want to appeal to Grimrock fans, it should reference Grimrock and Dungeon Master, etc. Be consistent and as clear as possible in your pitch.
 

Jaesun

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Every one here (for the most part) crave turn based combat. Because we are awash in a sea of shitty action games labeled as RPG's.

BUT just having turn-based combat is only a start. Then there is tactics, skills, stats that a good system will compliment it.
 

mondblut

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RT in blobbers sure sucks, but watching the butthurt of FPS fans bawwing there is a grid makes it almost tolerable.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Jonsnovv
Personally, on a purely commercial level, I think making "Grimrock IN SPACE!" is a solid idea for a first project. People will definitely pay for that. It's a tested, proven formula. Other people here will give you a hard time for not making it turn-based, of course, but screw them.

You'd probably want to do something to address Grimrock's shortcomings ("the combat mambo") though.

That could be one of your selling points, actually. "Like Grimrock, only better! Less twitchy, more tactical!"
 

Crooked Bee

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^ Yes, building on the success of Grimrock is definitely a sound idea - just be sure to add more variety to the mix, and preferably a more complex RPG system with a wider room for different tactics (not just dancing around the enemy). Even if you make it real-time like Grimrock, you may still want to have a look at Wizardry 6-7 for the way they handle classes and at modern dungeon crawlers like Etrian Odyssey for the way they handle skills and skill trees. Speed should be a statistic, imho, and factor into combat. Evasion should be more meaningful than in Grimrock. Different types of magic and non-magic resistances also wouldn't hurt. Etc. Complexity is your friend, especially if it leads to different ways to build your party as well as different ways to handle combats.

(Although of course personally I would prefer a Wizardry-like not a Dungeon Master-like. :P)
 

Jonsnovv

Ideas Unbound Studio
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We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we need to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!
 

Indranys

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We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we needed to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!
:thumbsup: and :hero:

Amen bro.
Now make the damn game! (With TB combat of course :smug: )
 

Crooked Bee

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We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we needed to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!

Just FYI, you can always run your pitch by us here before it goes live. If you don't feel like making it public before the start of the campaign, feel free to PM it to me or other staff members - we'll give it a look and maybe give you some advice (which might or might not be useful :P). Feedback can be a very good thing.
 

Jonsnovv

Ideas Unbound Studio
Developer
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We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we needed to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!

Just FYI, you can always run your pitch by us here before it goes live. If you don't feel like making it public before the start of the campaign, feel free to PM it to me or other staff members - we'll give it a look and maybe give you some advice (which might or might not be useful :P). Feedback can be a very good thing.

Your offer is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
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We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we need to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!

Just some more advice. Before you leave your jobs, make sure you have a good demo to showcase the game (such as perhaps 1 combat encounter, exploration ect.). People are a bit more cautious now when backing Kickstarter projects especially from unknown developers. But if you have a solid demo along with a good pitch you should be OK. And how much you are going to ask for money wise will also be a factor.

And DO YOUR HOMEWORK and study and observe the various successful and un-successful Kickstarter projects to learn what they did right. As well as good stretch goals.

You have a lot of work ahead of you if you wan't to do this right. Good luck. :salute:
 
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That turn-based demo looks nice!

I think you should definitely go this route. You do need some more tactical depth though. Being able to control party formation (although with only 3 chars it's a bit meh), having aggresive/defensive stance, etc.

@Jnnsnovv: As Jaesun said, you have a lot of work in front of you. Make sure you do make a game you would like to play, and while you should listen to the community (especially the codex), don't cave in to any and all whines and demands. I'm sure that some tard will want a romanceable robot...
 

DarKPenguiN

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Oct 6, 2012
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1,323
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Inside the Hollow Earth
We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we need to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!

Just some more advice. Before you leave your jobs, make sure you have a good demo to showcase the game (such as perhaps 1 combat encounter, exploration ect.). People are a bit more cautious now when backing Kickstarter projects especially from unknown developers. But if you have a solid demo along with a good pitch you should be OK. And how much you are going to ask for money wise will also be a factor.

And DO YOUR HOMEWORK and study and observe the various successful and un-successful Kickstarter projects to learn what they did right. As well as good stretch goals.

You have a lot of work ahead of you if you wan't to do this right. Good luck. :salute:

You have given some stellar advice in this thread- I pretty much think everything you said is spot on...Nothing more to add really except, TB please....
 

LeJosh

Savant
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
434
Location
Edinburgh
this is only a concept of the Turn-based combat, nothing has been balanced (energy costs, damage...) and this is only from 1st person PoV, will be only used in the Base game at low funding goals (will be replaced by Dragon Age/Baldur's Gate style combat with tactical pause and 3rd person PoV).

I'm not sure I get it. So the current prototype is first person turn-based dungeon exploration and combat, but as a stretch goal you will turn it into... real-time with pause isometric exploration and combat? Not that I care a lot - do whatever kind of game you want to make - but doesn't that sound a bit weird?

At the top funding goal this game won't be an ordinary Dungeon crawler anymore. There is no reason giving to the community dungeon crawler if we achieve the top funding goal. The players will get an RPG game like DA or ME for their money. Both existing prototypes are meant for base game at low funding goals.

Personally, I think there is every reason to give the community a dungeon crawler, as that is what they've pledged towards. Choose one or the other, don't shift it just because you happen to have the funds. Incredibly strange idea.

Edit - looks like I've chimed in far too late. Oh well. :)
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
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Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Generally I would say 'fuck the haters' re: Grimrock's real-time but looking at the new video your game does indeed seem better suited to turn-based given the depth of tactical choices. I might have missed it on an earlier page but I'd find another name as 'Space Shock' is a bit too much of a play on System Shock. Otherwise this looks amazing and has great potential -- better than 99% of other forthcoming titles.

Also you should put a link to your website/forum on that latest youtube video.
 
Joined
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I wonder if simultaneous turns wouldn't be a better idea. You make a move, enemy makes a move but otherwise, the game is suspended, unless you hit some button to wait out a turn.

Also, let's not forget interrupts and opportunity moves. Eg. enemy shoots at you. You do a passive evasion roll. If you succeed, you can move or attack during enemy's turn. Though I'm not sure if there are rolls in the game.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
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We can not fail with all of you here around! We are working hard every day on the content, now it is the right time to leave our jobs and focus our time on pitch document for upcomming Kicksktarter campaign. Now we know what we need to know from people. You have helped us very very much. Thank you!

Just some more advice. Before you leave your jobs, make sure you have a good demo to showcase the game (such as perhaps 1 combat encounter, exploration ect.). People are a bit more cautious now when backing Kickstarter projects especially from unknown developers. But if you have a solid demo along with a good pitch you should be OK. And how much you are going to ask for money wise will also be a factor.

And DO YOUR HOMEWORK and study and observe the various successful and un-successful Kickstarter projects to learn what they did right. As well as good stretch goals.

You have a lot of work ahead of you if you wan't to do this right. Good luck. :salute:

As an addendum to what jaesun & bee said, you need to pay a lot of attention to your backer tiers. Don't promise the world - especially in physical goodies - for the early tiers. Plenty of projects nearly bankrupted themselves on printing t-shirts when the money should have gone towards making the game. My $0.02 would be don't offer physical product for the sub-$100 backers. Digital copies, high-res soundtracks, beta access and a thank you in the credits don't cost you anything and is equally enticing.

And I'll echo bees offer to read through your pitch along with the rest of the codex staff if you want us to. It's not endorsement, we just really like being anal-retentive and pointing out things we disagree with around here. :P

The turn-based looks pretty sweet. If I were at the head of the project, I'd be shooting for a turn-based dungeon crawler with puzzles and really difficult combat where you had to think about what resources to expend to survive. But I'm not at the head of the project and the most important thing is that you as a group figure out exactly what game it is you want to make and stay true to your idea. Don't implement things that will never work just to please a vocal minority.
 

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