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SpellForce 3 Reforced + Soul Harvest & Fallen God standalone expansions

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
SF3 is mostly fine, but if I had ability to change something in SF3 (main game) these things would be on my list with high priority:
RPG aspect:
- More branching plot and dialogue choices.
- Ability trees and statistics more impactful on dialogue and world around your character (scaring city folk in Everlight by summoning undeads is funny, but probably will melt low end CPU in result).
-More content to help reach 50 lvl cap without boring grind. In Reforced version of the game you can choose 3 skill tree + leadership always with your character, yet I have reached end game 30 lvl and only few interesting skills from two trees were unlocked (in my case it was Brutality and leadership) Ofc there a possibility to grind, but I would have preferred some new maps and bunch of side quests.
This is all I can remember right now, but I am sure other people can add something to the list.
RTS aspect:
- More battles against non-human main factions. People complained about RTS aspect alot, but for me it would be cool to have more encounters against orcs/elves. Also helps to reach level cap in more interesting ways.
- Hell, I am ok if story would be changed a bit just to incorporate dwarfs/dark elves/trolls as playable/enemies into base game. Also helps to reach level cap, since this is means more maps and exp.
- More control over units on battlefield, for example formation options and patrol points. More dynamic way activate abilities of units (some dwarven abilities is pain in ass to use tbh).
- If my memory correct: in Spellforce 1 dwarven units was able to gather experience and level up with various bonuses. I would give this ability to all units with intellect (aka no golems or animals) or vehicles (if they driven by intelligent being) just to give additional motivation to preserve units (with different bonuses depending on faction)
- Raise max population capacity from 200 to number depending on faction.
-This one will raise brows of many codexers, but it would be cool if it was possible to transfer at least part of units and resources poduced on map to other missions. Yes, this OP as fuck, but I have a habit to mine every resource from map before leaving and it's sad to leave 10000 of wood behind.

Yes, I know that development on the game is finished and there not much in terms of modding community. Yes, there thing X that people wanted to change, but it's not the point.
My point is - there many thing that could be improved or fixed in many ways, but changing story to boring civil war (human vs human) without ability to incorporate different factions (orcs,elves and others didn't gave a single shit about Mage Wars) isn't solution to any problem, other than pleasing Lacrymas, I guess.
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
Also whats funny about Lacrymas's "muh misery and sadness" complaints, is that he earlier complained about guard not letting him out of city peacefully, despite agreeing to commit war crime ( or was it genocie?) in Liannon. I mean, bruh, you assisted in the spread of despire in Eo and blame everyone for being sad.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Soooo, I'm talking to Rohen now about the past and I'm convinced the mage wars would've been a better time to play in and perhaps been a more relevant story. Yeah, plagues are bad and we are living through one right now, but that's not interesting or exciting. Seeing a charismatic leader fighting for a divisive cause, pushing more and more extremes while his lieutenants have different opinions on the matter would've stoked a few embers in me. It would've also created more genuine RP moments for our PC and made them a more interesting character. Do you stand by your father until the end or scheme his downfall with Rohen, or something in-between, or something completely different? It's the Saint's War in PoE thing all over again.
I agree, the first half of the story is pretty nice exactly because you are treated like shit and nobody trusts you because of the Mage wars, I was really interested but the interest started dying as you shift from being a bastard that everyone hates to be the CHOSEN ONE CHAD COMMANDER that would help create the Circle. I think the problem is with the second half, the whole "Fanatic cult that is misguided." would be cool if the fantasy elements were tuned down, shit like mind control, old civilizations and magical plot convenient plagues arent interesting. As soon as I got to Mulandir, I got bored as I saw the game was shifting into a more traditional cliche fantasy story and I couldnt feel any emphaty for Lacaine that was twirling his moustache a bit too much on the second half with that whole mind control shit that robbed characters of agency and I could see a mile away how that Aonir shit would end and the end really just did exactly what I expected.

The awesome mysterious old civilization trope is as interesting as the effort is placed into fleshing out the old civilization and making a good thematic bridge with the current affairs, so many stories take the shortcut of taking the awesome mysterious civilization trope, just turn it in some background Mcguffin for the good and bad guys to fight over like in this game, this is so boring. It is the "We must go epicz or the player lose interest.", this always bores me.

They wouldnt even need to make the story about the mage wars, just tune down the fantasy shit and go with a lower fantasy theme, instead of fighting over a boring ruined city mcguffin, you would have to take a side between two sides that are actually right in their own way, the church of Aonir are full of people that lost everything to mages and bitter to the bone willing to take the revenge and the mages being forced into a corner and willing to go to extremes for survival, you know, the focus of the story would be the very old human bullshit that is much more relatable with the fantasy stuff being just background noise. Again, developers go for epicz instead of interesting, same problem of PoE.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Does anyone remember where the locked chest in Everlight is? The one which requires a cipher. I have 4 notes now and I'll probably be able to unlock it, but I can't find it.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
So, has anyone actually played the RTS portion of this? As in PvP skirmish map like every other RTS has. I just did and oh, boy, do I feel opinions forming. The short version is that it's a passable RTS in the Blizzard style. However, it doesn't go far enough in emulating that style. The first and most important thing is that units don't have the clear mechanical roles they do in a Blizzard RTS. There isn't much of a difference between an infantryman, champion, and a keeper for example except in statistics. Different units need more active abilities, the stances don't really cut it. This, imo, is a symptom of my next point - there is too much macro. The devs probably cut out active abilities of units because there's so much to manage on a macro level. You have at least 5 resources per faction and you need to go out of your way to get sectors in which these specific resources are available, then upgrade the sector to have enough workers in it and then build the necessary building to get the resources you need. This makes the pace glacial at the beginning and pins your attention to the economy. The economy is a tad too involved for the style they are aiming for. The game is trying to combine Warcraft 3 and Age of Empires 2, but doesn't get the details of either right, so it feels like you are struggling with the mechanics in order to fight battles which are most times disappointing and one-note due to units having less character and purpose than in AoE2. There is a reason it didn't make it as an RTS on the big stage.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Does anyone remember where the locked chest in Everlight is? The one which requires a cipher. I have 4 notes now and I'll probably be able to unlock it, but I can't find it.

Cipher is for entrance to bandit base, in the east between the two godstones on the edge of the map. The three notes are for the chest in the area with the orc's quest.
 

Blutwurstritter

Learned
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
875
Location
Germany
Does someone know where the Dwarven Token/Coin is that is required along the Human Token, Elven Token and Orc Token for an item received at the Statue of King Ayelith on the Green Coast ? Some guides say its in Farlorn's Hope but I couldn't find it there.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
Does someone know where the Dwarven Token/Coin is that is required along the Human Token, Elven Token and Orc Token for an item received at the Statue of King Ayelith on the Green Coast ? Some guides say its in Farlorn's Hope but I couldn't find it there.

Moved in reforced, the Dwarven coin can be bought with Bartnering 3 from dwarven merchant in camp.
 

Blutwurstritter

Learned
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
875
Location
Germany
Does someone know where the Dwarven Token/Coin is that is required along the Human Token, Elven Token and Orc Token for an item received at the Statue of King Ayelith on the Green Coast ? Some guides say its in Farlorn's Hope but I couldn't find it there.

Moved in reforced, the Dwarven coin can be bought with Bartnering 3 from dwarven merchant in camp.
Thank you, that saves me from wasting more time on a fruitless search. A bit weird to place a part behind a skill while everything else can be found directly.
 

Blutwurstritter

Learned
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
875
Location
Germany
I have finished the main campaign in Reforced just now. The games strengths are the same as before and the rts part in the campaign doesn't feel noticeably improved, at least not when I compare it with my memories of it. I'd even go as far as saying that the normal version was slightly better. It had more units, more damage types and the missions were more closely interwoven with your progress as they unlocked some of the units that are now missing. You can still waltz through missions using your heroes mostly, so balance is still a joke, at least on normal. My main char could tank an army by himself with around 90-95% damage reduction and a 50% parry chance. The only difficulty is destroying buildings due to the insane repair speed. But that can also be covered using the undead summons on lvl 3. One of those skeletons comes with an earth quake like attack that deals ridiculous amounts of damage to buildings so destroying bases is trivial once you get them. Anyone with the slightest rts skills should have no hard time. Supporting your heroes by pumping basic units and attack move typically does the trick. And later on your heroes can do the job with minimal or no support. The same approach worked in the original, it just had more "flavor" due to more units and larger armies.

The campaign itself is still good however. Gorgeous locations and a good script. I didn't play skirmish or multiplayer so I can't judge if the changes bear any benefits there. I hope the invested work pays off for Grimlore Games even if it didn't change much for me. I enjoyed all of the recent Spellforce 3 games and do still recommend them but I don't think that the Reforced version will change your opinion if you didn't like it initially.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
This game, like so many others, is kinda pointless on anything below the hardest difficulty.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
This game, like so many others, is kinda pointless on anything below the hardest difficulty.

What do difficulty levels do in this game exactly? I play decent amount of RTS and can deal with hardest AI in stuff like AOE2 but if it is just going to statbloat enemies in an RTS (like TW:WH) while my units feel like cripples it is a bit offputting.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
What do difficulty levels do in this game exactly? I play decent amount of RTS and can deal with hardest AI in stuff like AOE2 but if it is just going to statbloat enemies in an RTS (like TW:WH) while my units feel like cripples it is a bit offputting.
I have no idea, really. The only really noticeable thing is the AI sends quite large armies to ruin your day in the RTS portions. Foot of Barga Gor is overtuned btw, so beware. I suck at RTSes btw, the second hardest difficulty in AoE2's campaigns gives me trouble and the hardest is borderline impossible for me unless I bang my head against the wall until it cracks (either the wall or my head). Having said that, I find the hardest AI in Spellforce 3 challenging enough and keeps my attention but it's not insurmountable by any means. If I were better at RTSes, it would be too easy probably. The RPG sections are a joke on any difficulty.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
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Messages
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Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Playing on hardest difficulty and this game reminds me why real time attack of opportunity is a good thing actually. Cycling around your low HP units back and forth for heals, cycling units around is degenerate and tiresome gameplay in low unit numbers. It is okay when you are actually in a RTS situation with frontlines and general mass but doing it when you have 4-6 units, and not being able to pin down an enemy is just silly. Also, this game is really fucking spammy with abilities. I assume white magic and black magic are OP, everything else is various kinds of useless from just a brief glance as well.

However there is a charm to it that brought me back to playing wc3 and BFME campaigns again. I actually didn't get that from spellforce 1. The whole not micromanaging the workers but simply assigning them to buildings to work is also a good way to do RTS base management. I also like the setting, as I like games where you are representative of some sort of institutional structure rather than just a murder hobo.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
White magic is mandatory on at least one character in the party, black magic is mediocre and imo the worst magic tree. Elementalism has AoE damage spells, so that wins out easily. For the martial trees Brutality > Defense ≈ Archery. Brutality has an AoE damage ability, so that alone is more useful than everything else combined.
 

Blutwurstritter

Learned
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
875
Location
Germany
Judging the skill trees at the beginning is a bit problematic, since some of the best skills only become available later on, once you have finished The Eye mission. You can select one of your skill trees and unlock another 3 advanced skills after that. I think Elementalism becomes alot better with those additional skills.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
Playing on hardest difficulty and this game reminds me why real time attack of opportunity is a good thing actually. Cycling around your low HP units back and forth for heals, cycling units around is degenerate and tiresome gameplay in low unit numbers. It is okay when you are actually in a RTS situation with frontlines and general mass but doing it when you have 4-6 units, and not being able to pin down an enemy is just silly. Also, this game is really fucking spammy with abilities. I assume white magic and black magic are OP, everything else is various kinds of useless from just a brief glance as well.

However there is a charm to it that brought me back to playing wc3 and BFME campaigns again. I actually didn't get that from spellforce 1. The whole not micromanaging the workers but simply assigning them to buildings to work is also a good way to do RTS base management. I also like the setting, as I like games where you are representative of some sort of institutional structure rather than just a murder hobo.
It is how RTS games work. Best players can do that shit even with big armies (look at Starcraft/Starcraft 2 pro players).
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
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Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
It is how RTS games work. Best players can do that shit even with big armies (look at Starcraft/Starcraft 2 pro players).

I know, I play RTS. If I didn't know how it works I wouldn't be able to do it would I? The problem is when this is applied to 4-6 people party based RPG, which is neither difficult nor engaging as moving parts of your army.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
It is how RTS games work. Best players can do that shit even with big armies (look at Starcraft/Starcraft 2 pro players).

I know, I play RTS. If I didn't know how it works I wouldn't be able to do it would I? The problem is when this is applied to 4-6 people party based RPG, which is neither difficult nor engaging as moving parts of your army.
I don't find it a problem. If it didn't have this, it would be like Supreme Commander and such games where whole gameplay is around outproducing armies you are sending to their death and over time you grind down you enemy. Such RTSs are a bore.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
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Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
I don't find it a problem. If it didn't have this, it would be like Supreme Commander and such games where whole gameplay is around outproducing armies you are sending to their death and over time you grind down you enemy. Such RTSs are a bore.

It's not about the RTS part, it is about the RPG part when you only have your party that becomes a kite fest.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
I don't find it a problem. If it didn't have this, it would be like Supreme Commander and such games where whole gameplay is around outproducing armies you are sending to their death and over time you grind down you enemy. Such RTSs are a bore.

It's not about the RTS part, it is about the RPG part when you only have your party that becomes a kite fest.
That is also RTS part but with hero units. This is how hero combat worked in WC3 as well. It is how it works in SC2 in missions with heroes only.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
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That is also RTS part but with hero units. This is how hero combat worked in WC3 as well. It is how it works in SC2 in missions with heroes only.

What the hell, even the most lean parts of wc3 campaign have plenty of units not just heroes. In fact only a few maps, rather short, ever have only heroes if I remember correctly. Moreover in WC3 the heroes have rather limited mana & abilities and combat is much more slow so shuffling around units even in lower numbers is a lot more coherent.

It also doesn't matter how it's in this or that game, the fact is when you reduce RTS gameplay to only hero units with spammable abilities it is like playing league of legends against the AI or some shit. I haven't play much of SC2 campaign so I don't know about that but I can imagine it being terrible if that's the case.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,432
I don't find it a problem. If it didn't have this, it would be like Supreme Commander and such games where whole gameplay is around outproducing armies you are sending to their death and over time you grind down you enemy. Such RTSs are a bore.

It's not about the RTS part, it is about the RPG part when you only have your party that becomes a kite fest.

Maybe in the beginning on Circle Mage, later on you can deal with them in other ways. Also harder to run away.

Only encounter where kiting really pops to mind are the trolls on Farlorn Hope.

What do difficulty levels do in this game exactly? I play decent amount of RTS and can deal with hardest AI in stuff like AOE2 but if it is just going to statbloat enemies in an RTS (like TW:WH) while my units feel like cripples it is a bit offputting.
I have no idea, really. The only really noticeable thing is the AI sends quite large armies to ruin your day in the RTS portions. Foot of Barga Gor is overtuned btw, so beware. I suck at RTSes btw, the second hardest difficulty in AoE2's campaigns gives me trouble and the hardest is borderline impossible for me unless I bang my head against the wall until it cracks (either the wall or my head). Having said that, I find the hardest AI in Spellforce 3 challenging enough and keeps my attention but it's not insurmountable by any means. If I were better at RTSes, it would be too easy probably. The RPG sections are a joke on any difficulty.

While most sections are really easy, on Circle Mage there are lots of attacks in both RTS/RPG that will instakill your PCs, so it takes just a few seconds without focus to lose the mission.
 
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