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Vapourware Spire of Sorcery - turn-based RPG where you play a party of runaway mages - abandoned in Early Access

LESS T_T

Arcane
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Codex 2014
Actual Early Access is coming on October 21: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/637050/view/5458918080766673708

Spire of Sorcery enters Early Access on October 21!

After running development sprints for a year non-stop, the game is set to enter Early Access on October 21 – hurray! Champagne Strong coffee for everyone!

d2710a3a653ab630d5ccf2877e9b8c0323aa329a.jpg


We define Spire of Sorcery as a turn-based party RPG where you rely on spellcasting, alchemy and a bit of equipment to explore the original world of Rund – engaging with the realms of life, death, and chaos to help the sentient citadel mend the broken world.

We’re pretty sure that you haven’t seen a game with such spellcasting mechanics before!
  • Learn basic spells and unlock combos
  • Concoct curative potions and prepare explosive bombs
  • Combine alchemy, spells and equipment to prevail in encounters
  • Explore the original world of Rund to discover new resources and new recipes
  • Expand your base at the Spire with new rooms that open new mechanics
  • Find new party members and improve their stats
  • Taste any resource that you find, to modify the looks of your party
  • Collect, grow and cook food that may taste great, or may taste horrible
  • Break into ancient barrows, dispel cursed weepers and battle infection-ridden gigglers

The list goes on – and we’re just getting started!

186da195939f0cddc6c528e84fe86b3b9632a935.jpg


What’s in the current version of the game?

The game releases with 3 chapters that detail the escape of the mages from the vengeful Inquisition, their encounter with the terrifying Broodmother and their first contact with the mysterious tribe of Mushroom-eaters. Spellcasting, alchemy, equipment, cooking, stats and traits, discovery system and construction of rooms at the Spire are all in!

As to the world, we’ve got seasoned gigglers and rageful shadows, spitting demons and fearful blackpaws, mad weavers and cursed weepers, spike-shooting tree crawlers and deaf mushroom-eaters who populate barrows, haunts and villages across wetlands, forests and elderwood.

How will the game be updated?

More content is coming, and a plenty of new mechanics is in the works for the next updates!

We update the game every month with quality-of-life improvements, and once every two months with new chapters and new mechanics. In this way, you’ll regularly have new challenges to try and mechanics to sample – all the way towards the full release.

Campfires, travel magic, crafting, personal relationships – it’s all on the roadmap, as well as new creatures, new regions and new mechanics.

41e813d83452bd98b46579530623fdcab7d123a7.jpg


How long will the game remain in Early Access?

We’re looking to reach version 1.0 before the end of 2022.

We’re a fast-paced dev team that survived both the COVID-19 pandemics and the complete revision of this game’s concept, so we’re not going to just sit back and let the time go to waste – never! We're hell-bent on shipping new content and new mechanics as fast as we can, thanks to your support, and improving the balance and the interface – based on your feedback.

What about owners of the Limited Early Access version?

Every owner of Spire of Sorcery LEA gets the new Early Access app added to their Steam Library on the day of its release (as well as a little thank-you in the form of a Supporter DLC).

What now?

Wishlist the game – and Steam will notify you once it is available for download.

Thanks to everyone who supported us through the recent turbulent times and shared the news of this game with their friends!

Our team is committed to creating original games that combine all sorts of mechanics, and we hope to bring you lots of fun with Spire of Sorcery – as you will see it evolve and grow during the upcoming Early Access period!

Team Charlie Oscar
Vilnius, Lithuania
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Releasing later today:



Lead a party of runaway mages through the unexplored lands full of dangerous encounters! Combine spellcasting, alchemy and equipment to prevail over opponents. Unlock spells, discover recipes, find new party members and expand the Spire to forge your own path to mending the world!
 
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Johannes

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So it's not so much about managing a magic tower, like it was supposed to be originally, but rather mostly blobber combat? Is this a correct impression?
 

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
So it's not so much about managing a magic tower, like it was supposed to be originally, but rather mostly blobber combat? Is this a correct impression?

At the feet of the Blue Mountains, in the north of the Wild Lands, rests the Spire of Sorcery. For centuries this sentient citadel slumbered, yet now it is awakened by a dark threat coming from the east. The Spire sounds an ancient Call, summoning all mages to join its cause. Answering its bidding, dozens of mages attempt to reach the Spire, attracted by the promise of a new life with the citadel. But only three succeed in crossing the Great River…

Yes, it is completely scrapped. It is just another roguelike. Do shit, unlock stuff at the tower. Stuff like "heal party between stages". Wow, such depth.

It also isn't even really an RPG. Randomly generated party, no character development.
 

mondblut

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Damn. Fuck card games. Fuck them with a power of a thousand crazed niggers high on jenkem. And if I wanted to walk around a map with a party of dudes and trash random encounters, I've got a backlog reaching as far back as 1985, enough to last me a couple of lifetimes. Don't really need another one (unless Cleve makes it).

The original vision sounded like a fun game.
 

Dr Skeleton

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Messages
814
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So they completely scrapped the main character (the old wizard in the tower) and the strategy layer, and now it’s about the runaway mages wandering in the wilderness, fighting stuff. I might give it a chance if the combat looked good, but it doesn’t.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth


We're back to weekly development updates, and weekly videos. This video features the complete playthrough of Chapter 1, so if you have questions about completing the DEMO or the first part of the full game, this will be helpful.
 

Mortmal

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So they completely scrapped the main character (the old wizard in the tower) and the strategy layer, and now it’s about the runaway mages wandering in the wilderness, fighting stuff. I might give it a chance if the combat looked good, but it doesn’t.
I agree with the three guys above you too, it has nothing to do with a mage simulator anymore, just an overland roguelike with a party of three randomly generated guys with a random set of magic formula . Positives are the art direction and sound effects.

Combat is at least innovative and original but more like a puzzle game than a RPG.It plays like a classic turn based blobber ,each mage get 3 symbols on each turn and you can complete the formulas and eventually cast if lucky or spend more endurance and redraw the symbols till you get what you need. Cumulating endurance loss, wounds , poison, infection and such fills a bar , once the bar is filled you get a permanent inuries. At 3 injuries the character dies. So there's still some tactical depth into it, but only in the the initial phases and first few combats when you are figuring the system .Then you have alchemy you collect overland ressoruces, to make potions and cure all those status or make throwables.

Cant really recommend it either, althought it's not complete shit and some fun can be had , after playing it a few hours it's very shallow, repetitive, and lacking content . After all that time it's disapointing . The only question in mind is what the point developing this ?
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
New trailer:



Spire of Sorcery is a turn-based party RPG with deck mechanics. At the core of the game is a system of tokens that allows to combine spellcasting, alchemy and equipment and affect both opponents and environments.

The November update that adds Tutorial, Mulligan 2.0 and multiple other enhancements releases on November 24, 2021.
 

LESS T_T

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https://www.gamedeveloper.com/marketing/lessons-from-a-disappointing-game-launch-spire-of-sorcery

Lessons from a disappointing game launch: Spire Of Sorcery
Some honest feedback from the dev.

[The GameDiscoverCo game discovery newsletter is written by ‘how people find your game’ expert & GameDiscoverCo founder Simon Carless, and is a regular look at how people discover and buy video games in the 2020s.]

Salutations and felicitations, my kind subjects. Welcome back to the kingdom of ‘learning things about video game discovery in textual form’. And thanks for the feedback on the Project Zomboid success story piece - always nice to see local lads made good, etc.

We’re switching things up for this newsletter, because… it’s always good to see when things go well. But we also need continued honesty and transparency when things don’t go as great as we all hoped. And we have a special guest in to help us with that…

Spire Of Sorcery: analyzing a disappointing launch

So, we’ve been chatting to Sergei Klimov, head of studio at Charlie Oscar recently, since we’re planning to run something soon on their search for a publisher for Gremlins Inc. 2, the sequel to their popular multiplayer PC ‘digital strategy board game’ (>5,000 Steam reviews since 2015).

And we got to talking about Spire Of Sorcery, a ‘turn-based party RPG with deck mechanics’ which Charlie Oscar launched into Steam Early Access in October 2021, and.. really hasn’t gone as planned. Having 80,000 Steam wishlists on launch and then selling less than 1,500 copies in launch week, as Sergei notes below, is… no bueno.


In fact, in GameDiscoverCo Plus’ post-release charts for that month, Spire Of Sorcery was an outlier, ranking 71 out of 71 games (with >500 Hype points) for our ‘Hype To Reality’ ratio & ending up with a 0.01 score. (The HTR score calculates a game’s performance vs. pre-release expectations - median is roughly 0.15 for non-tiny games.)

But to his credit, the very practical and honest Sergei has worked through the Kubler-Ross model about this turn of events. And he’s written up for us what his team believes went wrong, with lots of specific takeaways for all. So… take it away, Sergei:

Intro: Gremlins Inc. & the itch to do something else
“We shipped Gremlins, Inc. in 2015 in Steam Early Access, a full release in 2016 and intensive development throughout 2016 and 2017. By the end of 2017, everyone was tired of steampunk and multiplayer, and we had an itch to make our next game something very different.

We know a lot of dev teams who did the same thing, and on reflection it seems like a Bad Idea. Following a successful multiplayer-centric board game, we went for a single-player indirect control strategy. That was pretty stupid in a number of ways:

  • different genre
  • different profile
  • a much longer dev process
Our advice to others would be to compound on the success of your existing game, making what’s strong even stronger. Ideally you will bring in an external advisor/someone who can think as an investor. And we bet they would say “hey, use your advantages to get more successful!” rather than “oh sure, change the platform, format and genre, it will be fun!!”.
The success bias & (lack of) prototype
We spent a good year with the paper prototype of Gremlins, Inc. before we went into production, but we completely forgot about it.

When we started the production of Spire of Sorcery, we felt we had “the touch” - we just needed to produce the game and ship it. Prototyping is for people who couldn’t make their first game work! That success bias alone cost us 2 years of development.

Our basic advice to avoid this would be to talk to other developers… but the thing is, we did that. It’s just that when you’re successful with one game, you tend to ignore all the comments that you don’t like, even if you get the good ones.

So a more solid advice would be to – regardless of whether you need it or not – pitch the second game to a publisher/investor. These people, being asked to give money, will ask all the same questions, but you won’t be able to wave them off!

Essentially, if you’d have asked me in 2018 about the gameplay of Spire of Sorcery, I would only give you either a description of the world, or a list of features, but not the actual core loop and flow. And anyone giving me money would have stopped right there and demanded a properly structured vertical slice or GDD.

A paid Beta on Steam?

By the end of 2019, we wanted to get the game into the hands of our players. The advice from Subset Games to engage your players as early as you can is truly great!

However, Steam didn’t have the current “keyless play test” feature back then. So we considered either a) sending out keys (like on Gremlins, Inc.) – but only 50% of recipients activated them, and only 10% provided meaningful feedback – or b) releasing as a paid Beta in Early Access as an unlisted page, which is what some studios did at that time. (You cannot find the game on Steam, but if you have the URL, it shows up and you can buy it.)

The latter is what we ended up doing. And looking back, our advice to others is not to do this. On the good side, we got 2.000 very engaged players who paid €20 to access the beta. It was a very valuable audience, filtered by preference and validated by purchase!

On the bad side, you may run into problems during beta, and may need to change the game significantly. And if you do this… some of the early adopters will get very angry with you.

No amount of disclosures (“this game may change”, “please refund if you’re trying to buy a finished product”, etc.) will help here. Just don’t risk, because if you will need to change core features, you’ll be ‘between two apps’.

So, about ‘between two apps’?
We still have to meet someone who succeeded in transitioning between two apps that are different versions of the same game.

There’s enough cases, actually, once you start looking, of games that didn’t work in EA, and got canned, with the developer opening a new version of the game as a new app. In all of these cases, there’s a bit of an angry mob coming at the team “BUT YOU PROMISED US ANOTHER GAAAAAAAAME!!!”

Generally, we think you should take money only when the game is set on its course. Early, sure. Super early, sure. But if your core loop is still evolving… or might need to change… God save you from running two apps.

Some memories are short…
Time is a subjective matter, and that’s evident when you talk to some players. We all, I’m sure, know games that were announced in 2019, where players say “they’ve been in development for 10 years!!”

After our unlisted beta on Steam at the end of 2019, we announced that we changed the concept in 2020, and then spent the whole of 2021 building the new version. To us, it was a super-intensive sprint for 12 months, with weekly builds and weekly dev updates.

This did not prevent some people in the community saying “this is unexpected” (despite detailed explanations), “this is surprising” (despite 30 dev diaries) and, the best, writing in 2021 that “I played a different game just a couple of months ago” – referring to the build from 2 years (!) earlier.

Our advice here is same as the advice from many other studios: only announce the sequels, because there early exposure provides feedback via detailed expectations. But for an experimental game, each year that you develop it in public is 3x years in the minds of some of the players. So when you ship after, say, 2 years, they would think “ah, this is a game that was baked for 6 years, must be HUGE!!”.

Releasing without an interactive tutorial!
We did this with Gremlins, Inc. and we took some harsh criticism, and built the interactive tutorial post-release, back in 2015.

We forgot about it by 2021 (same dev team! 1:1!) and shipped Spire of Sorcery also without an interactive tutorial, and again we took harsh criticism, and added it with the first big update.

Advice: do not, I repeat, DO NOT ship games in Early Access without an interactive tutorial.

Early Access launch with tech bugs?
We kept developing the launch build of Spire Of Sorcery until 12 hours before release. As it happens, we shipped the game with some tech bugs. Even though we fixed them in 48 hours, we caught a number of refunds and bad reviews just based on that (“cannot complete the game”).

Advice: if you can afford it… take a week to fix game-breaking bugs before you ship. Though in some cases, this advice is like “eat well” to a person who only has yesterday’s sad sandwich at their disposal.

Two games, one release…

We reached Early Access on Spire Of Sorcery with 80.000 wishlists, on the back of pretty huge demand for the unlisted beta back in 2019. You see, in 2018-2019, we ran weekly dev diaries, and commanded quite a lot of attention. In our minds, we were still there. And thus we also shipped at €20, without any discounts.

The reality, though, was that we ‘only’ had 24.000 wishlists from the year of 2021, when the game already had its current concept, and that previous result was for a different concept.

We also didn’t have the time for regular dev communication in the months up to EA release. So when shipping an under-promoted game with 24K wishlists, we actually thought that we were shipping an 80K wishlist highly desirable product. We thought we will sell “at least 10% of wishlists” in Week 1. Our actual sales during launch week: less than 1,500 copies.

Basically, we had “Spire of Sorcery” (2017-2019) and, let’s call it, “The Wild Mages” (2020-2021) games, which were publicly conflated as one game, Spire of Sorcery, which complicated matters on every goddamn level in communication. Should we actually have renamed the game? We don’t have an answer for that, so cannot advise anything to others.

Unbundling the situation
Examining things post-EA release, we ended up with badly mixed reviews (50-60% positive) that were made of 2 groups:

  • positives from people who discovered the game in 2021 – and who tried the demo before purchasing
  • negatives from *some* people who bought another concept in 2017-2019, and were Very Unhappy with the change of the core mechanics.
At one point we wanted to see if the owners of unlisted beta were the ones who wrote negative reviews, but it wasn’t the case. Some people wishlisted in 2018, bought the game without checking in 2021, and were very unhappy. And some bought the game in 2019, attached us change the concept, and actually really enjoyed the 2021 edition.

Our action plan: monthly updates addressing the most impactful items, as per community discussions, combined with discount sales that trigger wishlists. We released a big update in November, and another in December. The next one is coming at the end of January.

We added a feedback form to the demo, asking about what people like and what they dislike, to get actual, clear feedback from the source - and it helps a lot. We see that the people who like the concept love the original mechanics. And the people who hate the concept, hate pretty much everything – from UI to art direction and the core flow. And so we’re focusing on making happy players even happier.

With each update, our sales are picking up. And our Steam announcement news posts went from 50 to 100+ thumbs up, which is pretty great when compared to the (still not high) sales.

We think the Mixed review rating impairs the sales, of course, but also works as a sort of a filter: you only buy a 65% rated game when you’ve tried the demo, and liked it, so we’re selling to the audience that is much more likely to enjoy what we produce.

Conclusion: going forward, and our takeaway
We’re currently set to finish the game and ship full release in about 4 to 6 months. As we develop and ship monthly updates, we’re also talking to publishers to see if we can sign up with a partner and access a big bigger budget, plus get an experienced producer to take a look at the game and help us align the priorities.

We think we have a pretty awesome original mechanics on our hands, and a setting and theme (spellcasting) that makes people excited, so we’re on the right path. How soon we reach full release and how much content we can throw in there, right now depends on a bunch of external factors.

Our takeaway for others would be:
  • try to avoid success bias, by keeping in mind that a lot of dev teams crash with their 2nd game after seeing the 1st succeed.
  • get someone external, wearing an investor/publisher hat (real or imaginary), to review your new game and ask the hard questions
  • do not announce your game before your core loop is complete and you enjoy it and are willing to “marry it”.
  • do not run paid Betas as unlisted apps - use keyless playtest instead. This will save your reviews big-time.
  • weekly dev diaries work really well, especially in multiple languages; use this tool to build your audience
Generally, if you have a good game in X genre, build what’s strong to become even stronger. AND if so you desire… invent Y in the background, treating it like a new startup, rather than as a guaranteed success.

We think this story will end well, with the game getting its release and all the recent wishlists converting (people play the demo, like demo, and our wishlists keep growing). But the price we paid, and are paying, is so steep that we do not wish this onto anyone else. Having said that, if you showed this article to me in 2018, I’d probably ignore most of the advice. So let me try to focus on just 1 thing:

Treat your new game as if you were invited to invest in it.

What if you handed over the whole concept to another dev team? Would your description, concept and business plan still satisfy your needs to secure your investment? If yes, then probably you’re on the right track!”
 
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Dr Skeleton

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Basically, we had “Spire of Sorcery” (2017-2019) and, let’s call it, “The Wild Mages” (2020-2021) games, which were publicly conflated as one game, Spire of Sorcery, which complicated matters on every goddamn level in communication. Should we actually have renamed the game? We don’t have an answer for that, so cannot advise anything to others.
Maybe? If the game Spire of Sorcery had very different gameplay to The Wild Mages, but The Wild Mages is sold as Spire of Sorcery, then yeah, it might confuse people buying Spire of Sorcery to play Spire of Sorcery. They were not “conflated” as one game, as far as Steam is concerned, it’s still the same game that people put on their wishlist in 2018. I didn’t buy the game, I knew they changed it to something different and it would likely be a mess on release, but people generally don't follow the development of every game on their wishlist. You should check what you’re buying before buying it, but in the end it’s the devs who will get negative reviews and refunds from it, so it’s on them to handle it.

Still, the core problem isn’t “we communicated it poorly" or "we forgot to put in a tutorial", it’s “we spent 3 years making a game, then scrapped it and reused the parts to hastily make a different game". Even if the new game is good, it was rushed and released out of nowhere, if there was any buzz around it mostly was negative (from the people who were pissed that the original game was scrapped) or confusion (what is this/this isn’t what I expected). I think 50-60% positive reviews isn’t as bad as they think for this scenario, though 1,5k sales probably is for a game that was developed since 2017.
 
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Grunker

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This looks terrible. Superficial puzzle combat and shallow roguelite exploration mechanics?
 
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While I liked the premise and art direction, I wasn't particularly positive on the gameplay from the earlier versions (from what I'd seen) so given that they apparently changed it substantially I'll take another look at it and see if it's now more appealing.
 

Dickie

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Decided to go look in on this game to see if it's gonna be finished after getting a message from Steam telling me it's on sale. Nope. It's over.

WHAT HAPPENS TO SPIRE OF SORCERY?

We do not plan to develop any more content for Spire of Sorcery.

If you liked the game and wanted to see more, we’re sorry to disappoint you. We tried our best. Unfortunately, not every game project ends as a success, and here we must bow and accept our failure – with a hope that this experience allows us to deliver a better product next.

Right now, we’re closing in on the playable demo of that new game, Sister of a Dragon, and plan to release the demo on Steam around the summer of 2024.
"No refunds. Go ahead and buy our next game in Early Access, though!"

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/637050/view/6915906760367921655
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
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GO WOKE GO BROKE, as Socrates would say :smug:

The moment shitskin and LGBT mages started to appear, art and game style changed for worse and everything went to shit. Must be some correlation & causation going on... Nah!
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
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Decided to go look in on this game to see if it's gonna be finished after getting a message from Steam telling me it's on sale. Nope. It's over.

WHAT HAPPENS TO SPIRE OF SORCERY?

We do not plan to develop any more content for Spire of Sorcery.

If you liked the game and wanted to see more, we’re sorry to disappoint you. We tried our best. Unfortunately, not every game project ends as a success, and here we must bow and accept our failure – with a hope that this experience allows us to deliver a better product next.

Right now, we’re closing in on the playable demo of that new game, Sister of a Dragon, and plan to release the demo on Steam around the summer of 2024.
"No refunds. Go ahead and buy our next game in Early Access, though!"

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/637050/view/6915906760367921655

This is a mistake. Leaving a project in blatantly unfinished Early Access will haunt them forever. There will be a constant hatedom that will hound the devs as long the game remains available for sale. We've seen this before in other studios.

They should either remove the game from steam or just finish it before moving onto another project.

Holy mother of bad ideas.
 

thesecret1

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Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,787
Isn't it an outright scam? I was under the impression that if you put a game into early access, you're promising that unless you go out of bussiness, you will actually finish it (even if "finishing it" just means slapping a "1.0" on the tin).
 

Berekän

A life wasted
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Messages
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I completely forgot about this game, but I remember being excited about the first iteration.

I wonder how they arrived at the conclusion that saying "yeah we burnt out a year ago and stopped working on the game completely, please buy our next one" would work well for them.
 

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