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Spoiler-Safe Pathfinder: Kingmaker Self-Help Thread (Now ruined by munchkin assholes)

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
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Feb 3, 2017
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In the early game, having 14 CON, or 10, makes literally 0 difference. You get one shotted anyway, especialy if sorcerer.

Later game, with items and what not, you will have a very respectable CON anyway, and you will regret not pumping the attacking stat or DEX if thats not the one.

I started with 10 and ended up with 24 CON (this is just with items and permanent stats booster) without investing a single ability point.

Anyway you were suggesting a monk build, and suddendly "think about sorcerer", so hmmm?

Care to explain Outflank and Seize the moment? How do they both stack on a melee char?

Pink Eye
 
Last edited:

Pink Eye

Monk
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I'm very into cock and ball torture
>In the early game, having 14 CON, or 10, makes literally 0 difference.
Okay. let's do an experiment.
Fighter with 17 CON:
(Unfair)
DMinwvR.jpg

As you can see, even with 17 CON the fighter still barely survived that hit. Here is what a sneak attack to the face looks like:
VESy7Wj.jpg

"Okay but that is unfair!" You say, okay, let's lower the difficulty down.
(Hard)
dYXiqQK.jpg

While that one was a critical, it still conveys my point. You're going to take damage, CON minimizes how much damage you're going to take. Now, I won't lower it to challenging, because health becomes trivial at the lower difficulties.

>Later game, with items and what not.
Yes. I never disagreed with you there. Developers made a stupid mistake by giving the player over powered items. Which are not necessary. It gives the player unnecessary power in an already bloated rule system. This is why low level DnD gameplay is superior than high level DnD. Unless your DM is retarded, he shouldn't be giving you power like it's candy.

>and you will regret not pumping the attacking stat or DEX if thats not the one.
Anything above 14 DEX is wasted on a heavy armor user. Monk is MAD and can't distribute all the points into attacking stat. Monk needs DEX, CON, STR, and WIS(CHA for Scaled fist.). A sorcerer needs decent CON, 10 CON won't cut it. Unless you do what Desiderius does, which is lower the difficulty in the prologue area. Then play the rest of the game on unfair. Or you have a pet that can tank for you, but I don't use pet classes. I don't like pets at all. They add unnecessary micromanagement. Attacking stat can only get up to 20, even then it's wasted. 18-19 into attacking stat will be sufficient. As you can then distribute the rest into other stats for survivability. Regardless you will still have some remaining points, where else are you going to invest those points, except into survivability.

>Care to explain Outflank and Seize the moment?
I don't keep old save files. I always delete them. So as a result I am a little foggy on the details and can't explain how they stack without looking at it myself. Last playthrough I had Jaethal with Seize the Moment and Outflank, and both were triggering just fine for her.
 

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
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Messages
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Uh, that's unfair (which doubles the dmg), the prologue, then a critical, and not even a monk.

And a 10 CON fighter would survive that critical having 11 HP, a 14 CON would have 13 HP anyway....

You are shifting the argument of the discussion.

My point which still stands is that your suggested monk build would be better with 19 str and 10 con.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
My point which still stands is that your suggested monk build would be better with 19 str and 10 con.

P:K does not give max dice rolls for HP values, you get more HP on lvl 1 but then some average is used. It makes CON bonus much more valuable, especially for lower-dice classes. I made a test Monk char with 10 CON and he had 25 HP on level 3, gets 7 HP/level with favorite class bonus - so no dps to talk about nor HP to take more than one crit and actually tank. I mostly play on Hard and sending such char into melee would be laughable.
 

kelkorkesis

Novice
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Dec 10, 2019
Messages
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Now, I won't lower it to challenging, because health becomes trivial at the lower difficulties.
I disagree with this statement. If there is on place HP shines it is lower difficulties. You can't realistically have frontline which uses HP as a defensive resource on unfair. It doesn't matter if you have 21 or 24 HP when enemy casually oneshots you.

On lower difficulties, with a bit of damage reduction you can make a perfectly fine HP tank. High CON Invulnerable Rager Barbarian will eat every hit on his face and won't give a damn about consequences in challenging. Compare this to unfair where - especially early game - everyone and their mother will oneshot your party.

I believe CON is rather irrelevant on unfair in early levels, but early levels are swingy even on normal. That is the nature of Pathfinder or 3.5 system. However in higher levels, even on unfair, you don't want to dump it because it can help you to survive
  • enemy crits
  • random encounters
  • touch AC targetting enemies (they are abundant in endgame and unless all your tanks are dex based dodge tanks HP is your only defense)
That's why I don't even dump CON on elf wizard. But I don't really pump CON on character creation. I am comfortable with 12 or 14.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
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2,930
this game is really fun, but I have to say it would be much better for my tastes without all the crazy stat boosting helmets and belts. Everyone has 20+ stats after awhile and reading the bonus to hit log is hilarious, its like a book for each attack (and its needed too to overcome the crazy high AC and defenses etc..). Its just way top over the top for my tastes. Its like where do you go from here? I guess they go to epic levels or whatever the next game features. Might as well put on capes. It becomes like a super hero game more than a classic D&D game. I wish they would tone it down a bit. But I suppose the target audience now likes that stuff.

I enjoy B2 keep on the borderlands type game play more than playing super heros. But still the game is fun. I am jsut not sure I will enjoy the next game as much if its going to be even more over the top.
 

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
7,587
P:K does not give max dice rolls for HP values, you get more HP on lvl 1 but then some average is used. It makes CON bonus much more valuable, especially for lower-dice classes. I made a test Monk char with 10 CON and he had 25 HP on level 3, gets 7 HP/level with favorite class bonus - so no dps to talk about nor HP to take more than one crit and actually tank. I mostly play on Hard and sending such char into melee would be laughable.

And with 14 CON what would be the HP on lvl3? Btw I just finished a playthrough on hard with a 10 CON melee char (non caster). I probably had to reload a couple of times more especialy in the Ancient Tomb fight. Nothing else.
 

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