Vapourware Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Remake from Saber Interactive

[Storyfag]

I could be mistaken, but I recall Persuade working in some cases when the Force Persuade would not.

True. But these aren't very common. By the way, they should have made Motta the Hutt immune to Force Persuade.

Force Persuade is not that useful in K1. I used to always take it but in my latest playthrough, I was roleplaying a Jedi who was loathe to use mind control and I found that if your persuade skill is high enough you can talk your way past anything anyway. Usually the dialogue tied to regular persuade is more varied and satisfying as well, not to mention the actual options for Force Persuade are few and far between. The two points to max it are better spent on other powers since the skill Persuade can only be invested in by the main character. There's never a playthrough where you wouldn't opt to take it. About the only real stand out thing that I can remember Force Persuade uniquely tying to is making Zaalbar kill Mission while on the dark side.

Can't agree, sorry. The options for Force Persuade are plentiful. Obviously a proper Jedi would indeed avoid them. Obviously this is not the kind of character I would play. And Force Persuade gives you fun comments from companions.

 

[Drop Duck]

Stormtroopers were also always clones and you can read articles from the OT period and long before the prequels came out stating this to be the case

Citation needed.

wahrk
Storyfag
Harthwain
karoliner
Agowen
Atlantico
Jiggy Boobles

Here is a magazine article from 1978 which is before Empire Strikes Back came out. Apologize to George Lucas now.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Stormtroopers were also always clones and you can read articles from the OT period and long before the prequels came out stating this to be the case

Citation needed.

wahrk
Storyfag
Harthwain
karoliner
Agowen
Atlantico
Jiggy Boobles

Here is a magazine article from 1978 which is before Empire Strikes Back came out. Apologize to George Lucas now.

This is a nice read, but this article doesn't list its sources. The pink box suggest this is all a speculation. We don't know if the person who wrote it had any access to George Lucas or not. The fact that it does not claim to have some inside knowledge coming from George makes it more probable to just be a speculation.

 

[Trippy]

I remain unconvinced that these games are masterpieces.

KotOR 2 is interesting, because it doesn't follow the simplistic "Blue - Good, Red - Evil" mindset of the Star Wars universe (which is shared by most games made by BioWare, to be honest). It still has to adhere to the Light and Dark Sides of the Force, but at least it tries to do something more with the premise.

Fair dues. Mine's an unfair take, and I mostly remember KOTOR2 because I did initially find it quite interesting. I'm just dreading the inevitable day when these fuckers start 'remaking' Dark Forces and Jedi Knight. I actually like those.

 

[Grimlorn]

They "fell" because that is the reality. There's no rejection. There's just the Force, in both of its aspects, one no less real than the other. And where one (the "evil" one) is produced by the other, supposedly "good" one.

You're arguing semantics with me. If you're implying they were corrupted because the Force exists and the Dark Side of it corrupts then yes, I agree.
There absolutely is rejection. Jedi who adhere to the code do not turn into Dark Jedi. They turn into Dark Jedi when they reject the truths therein.

The force seems to have a will of its own and encompasses both light and dark. I'm pretty sure it's referenced that the Dark side of the force began interfering with the Jedi's precognition skills during the prequels. Maybe it was Sidious, I don't know. It's hard to believe Sidious was the strongest when he didn't have the ability to live forever like his former master and because he had to sneak in while his master slept and slit his throat. It's also implied that the Jedi's hubris and arrogance led to their downfall. I don't know how much is canon but it appears that both the Jedi and Sith have been on the brink of extinction multiple times throughout history. If the force has a will of its own then it seems that it has a hand in the destruction of both sides, and neither side is the way the force wants it or perhaps conflict is the overall goal. Life cannot evolve without conflict and peace just make everyone weaker and more complacent anyway.

Really this just seems like bad storytelling in that the same stories are recycled endlessly for drama and there is no consistent meaning to what is going on due to all the different creators contradicting each other. Which is why there is no depth to the universe.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

no idea if they were originally intended to be clones, but most of the ones you see in the original trilogy are actually not clones lorewise now
would be a bit strange to attempt to avert a continuity error if they were originally intended to be clones

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

The force seems to have a will of its own and encompasses both light and dark. I'm pretty sure it's referenced that the Dark side of the force began interfering with the Jedi's precognition skills during the prequels. Maybe it was Sidious, I don't know. It's hard to believe Sidious was the strongest when he didn't have the ability to live forever like his former master and because he had to sneak in while his master slept and slit his throat. It's also implied that the Jedi's hubris and arrogance led to their downfall. I don't know how much is canon but it appears that both the Jedi and Sith have been on the brink of extinction multiple times throughout history. If the force has a will of its own then it seems that it has a hand in the destruction of both sides, and neither side is the way the force wants it or perhaps conflict is the overall goal. Life cannot evolve without conflict and peace just make everyone weaker and more complacent anyway.

Really this just seems like bad storytelling in that the same stories are recycled endlessly for drama and there is no consistent meaning to what is going on due to all the different creators contradicting each other. Which is why there is no depth to the universe.

It was a clouding caused by Sidious. Whether we believe Sidious was the most powerful or not is irrelevant, it was stated to be the case by G-canon material. In regard to killing Plagueis though, there is no evidence that he lacked the ability to just kill him outright rather than simply opting for the added pleasure of exploiting the position of trust he was in to torture his old master to death. Either way, Palpatine was the superior Sith because he won. Victory trumps all other considerations in Maslo's hierarchy of Sith needs, except freedom™.

The Jedi had only been on the brink of extinction twice that I know of. Even if we're charitable and doubled that estimation, four times in ~25,000 years is nothing. Lastly, I'll restate what I said a few posts ago, the existence of dark side practitioners is not a prerequisite to conflict existing in the galaxy.

 

[Storyfag]

perhaps conflict is the overall goal. Life cannot evolve without conflict and peace just make everyone weaker and more complacent anyway.

There is no peace, there is only passion...

 

[Zibniyat]

by G-canon material

On the one hand Star Wars was always shallow, for children thing, so all these discussions are really pathetic. On the other, "g-canon" sounds extremely cringe, trust me 99% of people who watch or care to watch Star Wars don't care one bit about what is or is not "canon", especially if it's tied to that dumbfuck George Lucas. Yes, he was the creator (or one of creators, who knows what occurred behind the scenes), but anyone can decline and Lucas went full retard.

"g-canon" is a cringe and cope, and I don't mean to insult here, really.

Chris Avellone salvaged what could have been salvaged from Star Wars. The rest? Whatever.

 

[Harthwain]

[...] George Lucas. Yes, he was the creator (or one of creators, who knows what occurred behind the scenes) [...]

Actually, a bit of what happened is known. Luke was originally meant to be an old [Jedi] general, for example. This role was filled in by Obi-Wan Kenobi later and Luke got turned into a youth.

Here is an article depicting some of this stuff: https://www.biography.com/news/george-lucas-star-wars-facts

It is obvious what made Star Wars great was it being a collaboration between various people, rather than all of it being done by one man (George Lucas). He was important - because he came up with the idea and started making movies based on that idea - but it needed a lot of refinement to turn it into what it became in the end.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Lucas's strengths have mostly always lain with "big picture" ideas stuff ("The Hidden Fortress in Space", "Harrison Ford fights nazis while looking for the Ark", etc.). When he turns his attention to minutiae he tends to trip over himself, at least narratively.

I'm honestly not a big fan of Lucas and I think that the best stuff in SW tends to be stuff that doesn't have his fingerprints on it (Disney excepted of course), but one thing I rarely see addressed is what a really outstanding FX guy he is. The Death Star assault from the original is one of the most thrilling space-battles ever put on film, and it was primarily conceived, executed, and filmed by Lucas. It's absolutely stunning practical-effects work that has arguably never been topped, and it was done in 1977! Even once he largely embraced CGI in the prequels, the space battles were mostly excellently choreographed, and honestly some of the only watchable moments.

 

[Cosmic]

I might play it if it's a good role-playing game and that would be that. My hype and interest for that universe died out when Disney drastically altered it to fit their washed-out vision for Star Wars. EA butchered an otherwise widely popular videogame series by releasing a lot of shitty games, from Battefront's remakes to Galaxy of Whales Heroes. Even if KOTOR's remake ends up being an outstanding game and story, it still wouldn't be enough to revive my ethusiasm for that universe.

 

[deuxhero]

Stormtroopers were also always clones and you can read articles from the OT period and long before the prequels came out stating this to be the case

Citation needed.

wahrk
Storyfag
Harthwain
karoliner
Agowen
Atlantico
Jiggy Boobles

Here is a magazine article from 1978 which is before Empire Strikes Back came out. Apologize to George Lucas now.

This is a nice read, but this article doesn't list its sources. The pink box suggest this is all a speculation. We don't know if the person who wrote it had any access to George Lucas or not. The fact that it does not claim to have some inside knowledge coming from George makes it more probable to just be a speculation.

Really the biggest problem with Stormtroopers being clones is the films themselves. There's plenty of group shots of them and absolutely zero effort is made to make them look even remotely like they have the same height. Other problems like Lucas apparently telling early EU writers that there were female stormtroopers elsewhere also undermine it. Also the only thing to ever reference this article again is "Sochi" appearing on a big map with zero explanation as to what it was and the various times (including at least once in something that's explicitly part of Disney's shit canon) it was reprinted.

 

[Storyfag]

Really the biggest problem with Stormtroopers being clones is the films themselves. There's plenty of group shots of them and absolutely zero effort is made to make them look even remotely like they have the same height.

In the old Expanded Universe the Empire used 4 main clone lines (including the Fett clones), several experimental clone lines AS WELL as recruits for its Stormtrooper Corps.

 

[deuxhero]

I know. I have no problem with some being clones, but having them all be clones is dumb.

 

[Rusty Eyes]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

The source is completely irrelevant. Incoherent stories are not satisfying

 

[Rusty Eyes]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

The source is completely irrelevant. Incoherent stories are not satisfying

So ignore them. Instead you give them free attention by throwing a tantrum, like a little child. Apathy is the death knell for any product. If you think that Maggs was hired for her talents, and not at least in part to cause a shit storm and garner widespread attention, you're dumber than your comment indicates.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

No, the concept of canon came from the Church but it's a far more ancient idea than that. To even have a conversation or an argument people have to fundamentally agree upon what happened and what is. Who decides? In the Bible's case a series of synods of ancient fathers. In the case of Star Wars as it was, the creator and owner of the universe.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

So ignore them. Instead you give them free attention by throwing a tantrum, like a little child. Apathy is the death knell for any product. If you think that Maggs was hired for her talents, and not at least in part to cause a shit storm and garner widespread attention, you're dumber than your comment indicates.

I'm not throwing a fit over anything. I just like stories to make sense within their established universes. But please, by all means, write an email to Games Workshop about how important female marines are because it's only fair. Doesn't matter that it's literally impossible within that fiction, right?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Because the author should get the final say in what the real story is.
It has nothing to do with IP(I oppose all IP rights), in fact, it does the opposite -- people would care more about work from the original author over a random person in a world without IP laws because they place more emphasis on what the original author has to say.

 

[Rusty Eyes]

So ignore them. Instead you give them free attention by throwing a tantrum, like a little child. Apathy is the death knell for any product. If you think that Maggs was hired for her talents, and not at least in part to cause a shit storm and garner widespread attention, you're dumber than your comment indicates.

I'm not throwing a fit over anything. I just like stories to make sense within their established universes. But please, by all means, write an email to Games Workshop about how important female marines are because it's only fair. Doesn't matter that it's literally impossible within that fiction, right?

It's funny how you had to jump to a completely irrelevant tangent about a different setting, since you lacked any actual counter-arguments. You must really love the taste of straw.

 

[Rusty Eyes]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Because the author should get the final say in what the real story is.
It has nothing to do with IP(I oppose all IP rights), in fact, it does the opposite -- people would care more about work from the original author over a random person in a world without IP laws because they place more emphasis on what the original author has to say.

So you must DESPISE Christopher Tolkien?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Why do people care so much about "canon"? The concept itself was invented by the Arthur Conan Doyle Estate, once they realised Sherlock Holmes would enter Public Domain, for purely marketing purposes. The idea didn't grow out naturally, nor does it carry any meaning outside of purely IP purposes. Think about it - by bitching about what is and isn't "canon", you are quite literally adopting the language of the most vile element of civilised society sans the government itself - corporate interest. Canon exists, definitely. But it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Because the author should get the final say in what the real story is.
It has nothing to do with IP(I oppose all IP rights), in fact, it does the opposite -- people would care more about work from the original author over a random person in a world without IP laws because they place more emphasis on what the original author has to say.

So you must DESPISE Christopher Tolkien?

To what extent?
His father effectively passed on the authorship of the works to Christopher, and his word was as valuable as the good Professor himself.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

It's funny how you had to jump to a completely irrelevant tangent about a different setting, since you lacked any actual counter-arguments. You must really love the taste of straw.

You made the subject canon. Within our conversation it's perfectly relevent.

free attention

Because Star Wars is really struggling. Great point