Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Starfield Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Red7

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 20, 2022
Messages
79
building your own ships and decking them with modded big titty followers

Bingo. That's really Bethesda's trump card. They know it, you know it, they know you know it, you know they know you know it.

But they'll never admit it. :)
Imagine if Starfield becomes a better Subverse than Subverse. :D
it already did if todd wont force u to be a kuk clown. i hate kukverse so much. dc stole millions they gave him to make tina armstrong gangbang with horse and all full lenght movie and he decided that even idiot like him can make games theses days or at least milk retards in perma dev state like kuk roberts.
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
building your own ships and decking them with modded big titty followers

Bingo. That's really Bethesda's trump card. They know it, you know it, they know you know it, you know they know you know it.

But they'll never admit it. :)
Imagine if Starfield becomes a better Subverse than Subverse. :D
it already did if todd wont force u to be a kuk clown. i hate kukverse so much. dc stole millions they gave him to make tina armstrong gangbang with horse and all full lenght movie and he decided that even idiot like him can make games theses days or at least milk retards in perma dev state like kuk roberts.

Pfbfbfbfbffbbb.. :lol:
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,437
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
This entire conversation started over a Codexer's inability to cope with the ability to create black people in a character creator.

No it didn't. As I said before, the problem wasn't that Black people is possible, the problem was that they chose not to show a single straight White guy (still their biggest buyers, or certainly an important segment) as a possibility. (It may actually be possible in the character creator for all we know, but it wasn't shown at all.)

That's a case of virtue signaling, and the subtext of why Bethesda thought it important to virtue signal that way (despite straight White guys still being big buyers of their product) speaks volumes.
 

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
397
But the intuition to make that call came rather from practical concerns. With no land vehicles - or atmospheric flight - having a huge seamless landmass would be just painful for the player. If you played NMS, you probably know what I mean. It does not even create an impression of a bigger world. It unintuitively makes it feel smaller - there's no frame of reference and it seems like travelling through nothingness. Beyond bases, you'll likely not see the same landscape twice, which makes it not even register as real or meaningful. I'm still going to be positively surprised if they did this the way you describe, because it's solid on technical level; and since they did not have to. Also on 4 main planets the capital settlement will be the point of reference .
I think the idea is the player will spend most of their time landing next to structures and other points of interest. My guess is they only simulated the entire surface because it made the rest of development that much easier. If a level designer wants to add a small settlement with its own questline on some random planet, they don't have to hardcode in a specific landing zone for that area. They just plonk it down with the knowledge that the landing mechanics are robust enough to accommodate wherever they decide to add the content. A peculiar trait of BGS that doesn't get enough mention (even though they themselves talk about it all time) is that their development process is basically creating a tool set so flexible and easy to work with that their developers can crank out a lot of content very quickly.

Incidentally, this way of doing things pairs really well with modding and procedural generation. Modders can create content anywhere rather easily rest assured that most of it will "just work" without the need to pour over hardcoded references and hack their way around rigid systems. And so long as you've created such a flexible system where devs and modders can plop down points of interest in any arbitrary location, you may as well write a procedural generation algorithm to do exactly that for some of the filler stuff like nondescript pirate outposts.
 

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
397
No it didn't. As I said before, the problem wasn't that Black people is possible, the problem was that they chose not to show a single straight White guy (still their biggest buyers, or certainly an important segment) as a possibility. (It may actually be possible in the character creator for all we know, but it wasn't shown at all.)
starfield-skills-best-550x309.jpg

intro-1655227426.jpg

image_2022_06_13_133414539.0.png
intro-1655397155.jpg

WHPj5DUhsjhfEnYDC5dAwJ-1200-80-780x470.jpg

You should know that literally every character shown in a Bethesda game is made using their character creator. You're freaking out over nothing.
That's a case of virtue signaling, and the subtext of why Bethesda thought it important to virtue signal that way speaks volumes.
Nah, this is a case of Bethesda advertising a feature that they and many other character creators have struggled with for a long ass time. It's literally a joke at this point that black characters don't have many options. You can't even create a convincing black-looking character in Elden Ring.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,437
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
You should know that literally every character shown in a Bethesda game is made using their character creator.

But they didn't choose to show that the player could do that in their proud showing of the character creator. Why?

Again, it seems like a bit of a gaping hole in their proud showing, in view of the fact that a large chunk of the buyers of their game will be plain old White guys.

Nah, this is a case of Bethesda advertising a feature that they and many other character creators have struggled with for a long ass time.

They have trouble making any sort of decent-looking characters, so that cancels out.

IOW, I could complain just as much about being able to make only janky-looking White characters. But you have to make some kind of janky-ass looking character - but they're not showing the possibility of making janky-ass White looking characters. Again, why?
 

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
397
IOW, I could complain just as much about being able to make only janky-looking White characters. But you have to make some kind of janky-ass looking character - but they're not showing the possibility of making janky-ass White looking characters. Again, why?
So now that we've clearly demonstrated that you will indeed be able to create a plain white guy in Starfield, your concern has now shifted to the much less important question of why they chose not to advertise that. So first of all, it bears mentioning that marketing has the most say over what is shown not the developers so your real contention is with the marketing not necessarily the game itself. It should come as no shock that marketing wants to broaden appeal. Even development teams may prefer that as broader appeal secures larger budgets to make more ambitious games.

But secondly, you're insinuating that not only is this a worse than neutral decision, i.e. "bad", but that it is bad enough to warrant specific mention. That opinion seems to only makes sense if you perceive reverse racism as a greater risk than the old fashioned kind. I find that notion to be asinine and I think anyone who believe it is probably projecting personal hardships onto society as a whole.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,010
The game isn't even out and Bethseda is already shilling out dosh for influencers to promote the game.

That's how promotion usually works, you promote the thing before it's out.
No it didn't. As I said before, the problem wasn't that Black people is possible, the problem was that they chose not to show a single straight White guy (still their biggest buyers, or certainly an important segment) as a possibility. (It may actually be possible in the character creator for all we know, but it wasn't shown at all.)
starfield-skills-best-550x309.jpg

intro-1655227426.jpg

image_2022_06_13_133414539.0.png
intro-1655397155.jpg

WHPj5DUhsjhfEnYDC5dAwJ-1200-80-780x470.jpg

You should know that literally every character shown in a Bethesda game is made using their character creator. You're freaking out over nothing.
That's a case of virtue signaling, and the subtext of why Bethesda thought it important to virtue signal that way speaks volumes.
Nah, this is a case of Bethesda advertising a feature that they and many other character creators have struggled with for a long ass time. It's literally a joke at this point that black characters don't have many options. You can't even create a convincing black-looking character in Elden Ring.

It turns out they're all gay.
 

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
5,682
Location
Swedex
>Refuse to stop using the creation engine.
If the choice is the outdated creation engine that's easily moddable and a new engine that's better looking, more stable, offers more options to the developer but it's hard to mod I would still choose creation engine since I believe Bethesda no matter the tools can't make a good game. That way at least you have hope that modders will fix it.
I don't fucking understand you people who fully recognize the awful aspects of Bethesda's modern games and yet you keep playing their games BUT modded. As if downloading a few mods will completely transcend those games into something worth spending dozens upon dozens (or even hundreds) of hours on.

The only Bethesda games I can stomach playing modded are Daggerfall and Morrowind. But that's because I like those games even unmodded. Not for a second have I ever been tempted to spend countless hours on finding/downloading/testing/tweaking tons of modes for a game I can't stand in it's vanilla form.

So basically, what a hell is wrong with some of you people? Or are you just pretending to think games like Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout 4 are shit?
 
Last edited:

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,523
>Refuse to stop using the creation engine.
If the choice is the outdated creation engine that's easily moddable and a new engine that's better looking, more stable, offers more options to the developer but it's hard to mod I would still choose creation engine since I believe Bethesda no matter the tools can't make a good game. That way at least you have hope that modders will fix it.
I don't fucking understand you people who fully recognize the awful aspects of Bethesda's modern games and yet you keep playing their games BUT modded. As if downloading a few mods will completely trandscend those games into something worth spending dozens upon dozens of hours on.

The only Berhesda games I can stomach playing modded are Daggerfall and Morrowind. But that's because I like those games even unmodded. Not for a second have I ever been tempted to spend countless hours on finding/downloading/testing/tweaking tons of modes for a game I can't stand in it's vanilla form.

So basically, what a hell is wrong with some of you people? Or are you just pretending to think games like Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout 4 are shit?
People want Bethesda-style games that are good. Almost nobody besides Bethesda even makes this type of game, so modding the shitty ones becomes an enticing option. It is folly though; there are too many baked-in problems that you can't fix with mods.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,437
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
IOW, I could complain just as much about being able to make only janky-looking White characters. But you have to make some kind of janky-ass looking character - but they're not showing the possibility of making janky-ass White looking characters. Again, why?
So now that we've clearly demonstrated that you will indeed be able to create a plain white guy in Starfield, your concern has now shifted to the much less important question of why they chose not to advertise that.

The first thing I said in this conversation: "the problem wasn't that Black people is possible, the problem was that they chose not to show a single straight White guy"

So first of all, it bears mentioning that marketing has the most say over what is shown not the developers so your real contention is with the marketing not necessarily the game itself. It should come as no shock that marketing wants to broaden appeal. Even development teams may prefer that as broader appeal secures larger budgets to make more ambitious games.

But secondly, you're insinuating that not only is this a worse than neutral decision, i.e. "bad", but that it is bad enough to warrant specific mention. That opinion seems to only makes sense if you perceive reverse racism as a greater risk than the old fashioned kind. I find that notion to be asinine and I think anyone who believe it is probably projecting personal hardships onto society as a whole.

Why does "broadening the appeal" mean you have to not show a White guy?

If the old-fashioned kind of racism was a problem, none of this shit would be happening ;)
 

markec

Twitterbot
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
45,668
Location
Croatia
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
>Refuse to stop using the creation engine.
If the choice is the outdated creation engine that's easily moddable and a new engine that's better looking, more stable, offers more options to the developer but it's hard to mod I would still choose creation engine since I believe Bethesda no matter the tools can't make a good game. That way at least you have hope that modders will fix it.
I don't fucking understand you people who fully recognize the awful aspects of Bethesda's modern games and yet you keep playing their games BUT modded. As if downloading a few mods will completely trandscend those games into something worth spending dozens upon dozens (or even hundreds) of hours on.

The only Bethesda games I can stomach playing modded are Daggerfall and Morrowind. But that's because I like those games even unmodded. Not for a second have I ever been tempted to spend countless hours on finding/downloading/testing/tweaking tons of modes for a game I can't stand in it's vanilla form.

So basically, what a hell is wrong with some of you people? Or are you just pretending to think games like Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout 4 are shit?

I like first person, open world, sandbox rpg genre thats unfortunately unique to Bethesda games with very few exception. I already spent countless hours playing Daggerfull, Morrowind and New Vegas, and while I return to those games every once in a while I do get urge to play something like that but different.

Fallout 3 and Oblivion are beyond salvation no matter the mods. Fallout 4 is barely playable modded and not really worth it. Skyrim I personally find that with certain mods like Requiem turns into a decent game, not great but a decent 7/10 game. And to me who love this genre and have little options is a good enough choice.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Todd has 10 points in luck as pretty much all his potential competition is moving into the virtual cassino business otherwise, some more competent company would have a good version of Skyrim by now.
 

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,466
Location
Lair of Despair
Todd has 10 points in luck as pretty much all his potential competition is moving into the virtual cassino business otherwise, some more competent company would have a good version of Skyrim by now.
And his other competitor self-destroyed by making Cyberpunk 2077 a legendary failure. It's insane how lucky Bethesda is. Even Bioware no longer delivers anything servicable. Who's even left now? Sony with its another Horizon type game?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom