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StarLife Game - Early development - Feedback is welcome

Do you like the concept of StarLife?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It looks okay.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It looks like gorilla crap!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know, who cares?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
To solve hard/soft limits, why not implement an attrition system? Keeping a large fleet at the ready would be taxing not only on the economy but on the ships themselves, especially in hostile territory. Just a random idea. Even the Enterprise has to refit every now and then.
 

tiagocc0

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Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
To solve hard/soft limits, why not implement an attrition system? Keeping a large fleet at the ready would be taxing not only on the economy but on the ships themselves, especially in hostile territory. Just a random idea. Even the Enterprise has to refit every now and then.

Great idea.

I've seen some games (RTS) that had this kind of attrition when on hostile territory, since most units if not all were expendable, it was a carnage just walking into enemy territory unprepared. Because of that they had a special unit that would allow them to remain into enemy territory for as long as that unit existed and as near them. One of the strategies to wipe an enemy attack was to kill those special units so the attrition would do the rest eventually.

I wouldn't go as far as the example above but we could tweak something like you have to pay maintenance, and you have to pay a higher maintenance if in enemy territory and if you fail to pay or choose not to pay then attrition would come in play.

And/or if you stay too far from your supply line for an amount of time you won't be able to pay for maintenance and attrition will happen regardless of how much resources you have.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
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Really like what I can see here! Grats for getting an own subforum aswell. ;)

As for that video - I like those small details you put in there, like those "grids" in background illuminating with mouse over etc. What I don't like are those fonts and colors, it looks a bit too cartoony for my taste. :/

The music fits, I like it.
 

tiagocc0

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Surf Solar said:
Really like what I can see here! Grats for getting an own subforum aswell. ;)

As for that video - I like those small details you put in there, like those "grids" in background illuminating with mouse over etc. What I don't like are those fonts and colors, it looks a bit too cartoony for my taste. :/

The music fits, I like it.

Thanks!

Noted about the font and colors, later in development I will address these aspects of the game.
If the majority voice over to a specific kind of style and if I'm able to deliver, then it will definitely happen.
 

tiagocc0

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Jack said:
It looks much better and cleaner! :thumbsup:

Great, thanks!



I've uploaded a screenshot of the Tactical Combat application I've been working this weekend for StarLife.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/purpleorangegames/5972157814/in/photostream

I've done some of the database.
Components and Ship Templates are ready.
The Tactical map is ready for tweaking.
I need to finish the database of the Ship builder.

Basically you add components and ship templates, then you choose one ship template and several components for that ship, then it's ready to be inserted in the tactical map for testing.
Ship Template -> Component Template -> Ship Builder -> Tactical Combat

The component template includes engine, energy generator, battery, weapon, shield and armor.
This will be what I will program first in the tactical combat.

I think in a week or two I can release a version for you guys to test, keep mind that this will be really simple. As soon as I release it I will start a new thread about this application.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
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Codex USB, 2014
I'm a conservative when it comes to colors in menu design so I'm not the biggest fan of purple/lilac, bright blue etc. But I do like the world size selection thingy, as well the whole function of the menus as seen in that video.
I also liked the hex-web thingy that followed the cursor.
Very excited to see some actual gameplay-stuff :D
 

tiagocc0

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Zed said:
I'm a conservative when it comes to colors in menu design so I'm not the biggest fan of purple/lilac, bright blue etc. But I do like the world size selection thingy, as well the whole function of the menus as seen in that video.
I also liked the hex-web thingy that followed the cursor.
Very excited to see some actual gameplay-stuff :D

I plan on making the game very moddable and as the game development advances I will probably make another skin for the game, I think I watched to many anime so I'm guilty as long as colors come into play, :oops:

Anyway, thanks! It's have been great posting here on the codex, the feedback is great.
 

Marobug

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So you never made a single game before but you want to make a full fledged 4x strategy game ? I don't think you have any idea the amount of work a project of this scale requires.
I've seen the same exact situation well over a dozen of times in my lifetime and I'm yet to see the final result of any of those cases.
Not saying you should give up but perhaps start off with something significantly smaller.
 

Grunker

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That or secure a team first. I will join the sceptic ones in saying that your very optimistic view and the scale of what you wish to make is a combination I've seen many times; and I don't think I've ever seen a product come out of it. Time will tell if AoD becomes the first one.

Your idea sounds jaw-droppingly awesome, but then most game-ideas that sink before they reach alpha do.
 

tiagocc0

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Marobug said:
So you never made a single game before but you want to make a full fledged 4x strategy game ? I don't think you have any idea the amount of work a project of this scale requires.
I've seen the same exact situation well over a dozen of times in my lifetime and I'm yet to see the final result of any of those cases.
Not saying you should give up but perhaps start off with something significantly smaller.

The project will be divided in several small independent applications.

My idea is to find people interested in a game like this that can brainstorm ideas and hopefully test those applications as they become functional.

It will be like an open source project. The problem with open source projects is that is mainly for developers, if you're not a developer then you will depend on one to help the project, since open source projects have several developers they have to have a robust system to help them get organized so the code won't end up a mess, this system is great to get organized but it slows down the process.
Since it's a group every major decision about changing something needs to be revised and voted by the group.

Why are there so many great indie games out there nowadays?
Because of their flexibility, every decision they make is a fast one.
If something needs to be changed they change it.

This is of course just my 2 cents, I believe that this forum is an amazing opportunity to find people interested in a game like this, interested in helping out with ideas and mostly interested in testing the gameplay.

I can't thank enough all the help I got here, and the biggest help I got here is motivation, I really got motivated to do it.
I know it's a big path ahead, maybe I will move as slow as a turtle, but I will move and as long as is someone interested in this game I will work on it.
And if for some reason I have to stop developing I will release all the source code.

I hope you're now able to understand me better. :salute:


EDIT:
Grunker said:
That or secure a team first. I will join the sceptic ones in saying that your very optimistic view and the scale of what you wish to make is a combination I've seen many times; and I don't think I've ever seen a product come out of it. Time will tell if AoD becomes the first one.

Your idea sounds jaw-droppingly awesome, but then most game-ideas that sink before they reach alpha do.

I had some bad experience with trying to form a team before, I don't want to depend on anyone.
If while developing the game and exposing it here on the codex someone feels like forming a team with me then we could try. But I want someone to be interested and come forward so it's his/her decision and not me forcing them to enter the team.


EDIT2: Sorry forgot to add this, I live in a country where almost nobody believes in game development. All game development companies we have are focused on crap cell phone games. The last great game was released 11 years ago and it resembled Starcraft. (Outlive)
The only help I'm ever getting is from people outside Brazil, unfortunately.
 

Marobug

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Sep 2, 2010
Messages
566
Yes I understand what you mean, but I already understood what the project was about from your postings what I said previously still applies.

You say motivation is what drives you forward which is normal, but expect that motivation to wear out fairly quickly in a few weeks time specially if you work on it slowly. Your idea might be good, but that's not enough to keep you and the crowd motivated for long, solid progress must be made and as soon as you start facing real difficulties and realize the daunting task you have ahead motivation will surely not be the same it is right now.
You are only just beginning work on this project, if you didn't feel greatly motivated in this phase then it would mean something's wrong with you and/or your project.

Also unless you have something rather impressive to show or lots of $$$ don't expect decent programmers and artists to jump on your lap just like that.
And you can't rely on other people to finish a project, much less one of this dimension.
That's why it's important that you have some experience and at least have an idea of what you are doing and where you are going. Even if you think you do, I suspect you don't, but time will tell.

To answer your question, there are great indie games now not because of flexibility but because now developers have easy access to many resources, tools and even platforms you wouldn't dream of back then, and good lot of these tools and resources are free (udk, unity, construct). That lead many people to jump the boat of game development and those who were already in the business saw their lives get increasingly easier. Soon the mainstream press would start paying attention to indie developers and blabla... the story goes on.

I hope you don't misinterpret me, I'm not saying that you should give up. I'm just saying you should reconsider your plans and do something way more simple before and then step up from there.
Like Jesse Schell says, your first 20 games will suck so get them out quickly. :D
 

tiagocc0

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Marobug said:
To answer your question, there are great indie games now not because of flexibility but because now developers have easy access to many resources, tools and even platforms you wouldn't dream of back then, and good lot of these tools and resources are free (udk, unity, construct). That lead many people to jump the boat of game development and those who were already in the business saw their lives get increasingly easier. Soon the mainstream press would start paying attention to indie developers and blabla... the story goes on.

I agree with you, but great tools apart, to be able to compete against big companies, I still think flexibility is the key. You just can't have that in a big company.


I hope you don't misinterpret me, I'm not saying that you should give up. I'm just saying you should reconsider your plans and do something way more simple before and then step up from there.
Like Jesse Schell says, your first 20 games will suck so get them out quickly. :D

No, it's okay, I totally understand your point, I just wanted to point where I stand but it seems you already knew, so no worries.

Maybe I think this project isn't as big as it sounds because I don't have to worry with a story, I don't need to fill tons of tile maps or create enormous scenarios, neither I have to fill a world with npcs or have multiple ending stories.

I just need to make the right mechanics in the right place, then a great random map generator and the game will be playable.
The most difficult part will be the AI, but I can deal with it after the game mechanics ready or almost ready.
All the text I'm gonna have is for descriptions of technologies, weapons, ships, buildings.

But I'm may be entirely wrong, if I am please point it out for me.
 

Destroid

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May 9, 2007
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Grunker said:
That or secure a team first. I will join the sceptic ones in saying that your very optimistic view and the scale of what you wish to make is a combination I've seen many times; and I don't think I've ever seen a product come out of it. Time will tell if AoD becomes the first one.

Your idea sounds jaw-droppingly awesome, but then most game-ideas that sink before they reach alpha do.

Dwarf Fortress man. It might not be a 'product', but it is better than most games that are.
 

Marobug

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Messages
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tiagocc0 said:
I agree with you, but great tools apart, to be able to compete against big companies, I still think flexibility is the key. You just can't have that in a big company.
Thing is, except for very few cases, indie games can't compete with the big guns and even in those cases flexibility had little to nothing to do with their success. And I can also assure you can have flexibility in a big company. In fact, the production process in a big company is generally much more organized than the average indie developer, I can guarantee you that.
No, it's okay, I totally understand your point, I just wanted to point where I stand but it seems you already knew, so no worries.

Maybe I think this project isn't as big as it sounds because I don't have to worry with a story, I don't need to fill tons of tile maps or create enormous scenarios, neither I have to fill a world with npcs or have multiple ending stories.

I just need to make the right mechanics in the right place, then a great random map generator and the game will be playable.
The most difficult part will be the AI, but I can deal with it after the game mechanics ready or almost ready.
All the text I'm gonna have is for descriptions of technologies, weapons, ships, buildings.

But I'm may be entirely wrong, if I am please point it out for me.

There is a lot more to it than that, but you are not exactly wrong, making a game like this does sound simple in theory. That's also what everyone else before you thought and was most likely what led them to start their own 4x game. Sadly though things are not quite that simple when it comes to actually doing it, specially when you're inexperienced.

Designing a strategy game is much more than just smashing ideas together, and when it comes to make it come alive you will probably face several problems with non-working ideas, lack of balance, etc and you'll be forced to dumb down or just give up on specific ideas altogether; Code-wise, you'll face bugs and challenges you didn't expect; You'll feel demotivated because things aren't coming out the way you expected, even if you are only halfway through development; real life is going to get in the way; etc...

Going through this and much more several times is what makes a developer experienced. He's used to that and has the solutions and work methods to get around those problems or at least most of them.
Not saying you never encountered some of these challenges on your day job, and I'm taking that into consideration, but game development is an entirely different ball game.
 

Valloy

Novice
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
5
Destroid said:
On the more encouraging side, MoO had three programmers and MoO2 had five.

That is crazy. MOO is the best game I have ever played.
So simply yet so many ways to win. And I am not sure if we have another "wargame" where you can win without complete eliminating the opponents. You can just humiliate them.
 

tiagocc0

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Marobug said:
Thing is, except for very few cases, indie games can't compete with the big guns and even in those cases flexibility had little to nothing to do with their success. And I can also assure you can have flexibility in a big company. In fact, the production process in a big company is generally much more organized than the average indie developer, I can guarantee you that.

What I mean by flexibility is that you're not be tied to a general plan that was brainstormed earlier and it probably didn't involve you. You're not tied to lead developer that is tied to lead designer that is tied to the executive producer that is tied to the publisher that is tied to the investors. Again, that's what I've seen so far, I know there big companies that this must be not the case. I would say they are just a few.


There is a lot more to it than that, but you are not exactly wrong, making a game like this does sound simple in theory. That's also what everyone else before you thought and was most likely what led them to start their own 4x game. Sadly though things are not quite that simple when it comes to actually doing it, specially when you're inexperienced.

Designing a strategy game is much more than just smashing ideas together, and when it comes to make it come alive you will probably face several problems with non-working ideas, lack of balance, etc and you'll be forced to dumb down or just give up on specific ideas altogether; Code-wise, you'll face bugs and challenges you didn't expect; You'll feel demotivated because things aren't coming out the way you expected, even if you are only halfway through development; real life is going to get in the way; etc...

Going through this and much more several times is what makes a developer experienced. He's used to that and has the solutions and work methods to get around those problems or at least most of them.
Not saying you never encountered some of these challenges on your day job, and I'm taking that into consideration, but game development is an entirely different ball game.

It really is not as simple as I've sounded it to, but it really is not as complex as many other types of games. Anyway I greatly appreciate you taking your time to tell me this.

Balancing is as hard as hell, most big company games are not well balanced, but I again talk about flexibility, if they spent 3 months doing a module of the game that in the end is not balanced, unless it's a very good big company that really understands gamers, this is module is never going to be cut out.
While in an indie game company if it is really stressed out by the gamers, the developer will go out of his way to try to correct this.

Dang, most big companies does not even have a communication channel, we just can't reach them. Am I wrong? How are they flexible if they just put their hands in their ears and keep singing lalaland.


Destroid said:
On the more encouraging side, MoO had three programmers and MoO2 had five.

Thanks Destroid, it really is encouraging, thanks for letting me know. :thumbsup:
 

Marobug

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What I mean by flexibility is that you're not be tied to a general plan that was brainstormed earlier and it probably didn't involve you. You're not tied to lead developer that is tied to lead designer that is tied to the executive producer that is tied to the publisher that is tied to the investors. Again, that's what I've seen so far, I know there big companies that this must be not the case. I would say they are just a few.
We're talking about completely different things then. Big companies work this way for a reason, and I can guarantee you most medium to larger sized indie studios work this way too. Except for single developers and open source projects this "flexibility" you speak of isn't a good thing, at all.

Balancing is as hard as hell, most big company games are not well balanced, but I again talk about flexibility, if they spent 3 months doing a module of the game that in the end is not balanced, unless it's a very good big company that really understands gamers, this is module is never going to be cut out.
While in an indie game company if it is really stressed out by the gamers, the developer will go out of his way to try to correct this.
Dang, most big companies does not even have a communication channel, we just can't reach them. Am I wrong? How are they flexible if they just put their hands in their ears and keep singing lalaland.

Firstly, why do you say that most big company games aren't well balanced ? Generally they come out way more polished than indie game titles.
Secondly like I said previously, there is flexibility in big companies. There is a QA board, internal and beta testers, there is press articles, etc... big companies do listen to feedback either internal or external, probably more so than indie developers.
Thirdly you seem to have a common misconception on how big companies work. Right now I can't think of any big developer who doesn't have a communication channel of some sort.
Continuous support (in the form of patches) is usually given until a year or so after the game is released, I don't know of many indie developers who do that.
Big companies might not listen to you but that's not because they lack "flexibility", but rather because they have way too many customers to listen to and you can't expect them to pick each and every suggestion/opinion/bug report and do something about it. Indie developers, if put in a similar situation, wouldn't be any different.
 

tiagocc0

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Marobug said:
We're talking about completely different things then. Big companies work this way for a reason, and I can guarantee you most medium to larger sized indie studios work this way too. Except for single developers and open source projects this "flexibility" you speak of isn't a good thing, at all.

This is true, big companies must work this way, even medium to larger size indie studios. If not they collapse.
Want I want to say is that this method of working has it's flaws, it's not perfect, and I won't have to live with this flaws as a single developer.
The bigger a company is, the slower their decisions get.
I know because I worked for a company inside Johnson & Johnson.
Most of the people I worked with were from J&J, this is one of the most successful companies in the world, but the it's IT was a complete mess.
They had all these rules, all these method of work, they tried so hard to make us comply with it yet most of their own employees would bypass of all that, would make things the wrong way, and most of my work I had improvise because they didn't gave the right tools to work with.

I know game companies are not the same as a big corporation like J&J, but it's not the exactly opposite.
My point is as a single developer I have advantages that big companies don't, not because they are wrong or because they suck, it's because they are big companies. As well as big companies have advantages that I don't.


Firstly, why do you say that most big company games aren't well balanced ? Generally they come out way more polished than indie game titles.

Most polished than most indie games, those few great indie games are way more polished than the average.

But I think you're wrong to say that big companies have polished games, usually they run on a tight schedule, they almost always release before it's ready, I've seen lots of companies releasing a game and then having a week full of patches just so the game reaches the standard it should have had at launch. When they care to patch it.
I've seen many bugs that were identified at launch that were addressed months later.
Most games are visually polished, they are not bad, but they could use a lot more balancing.

I've seen way too many games with unofficial patches or with mods to address their issues, and most of these issues are balancing issues, I was horrified at how many flaws Victoria 2 had, I loved the game but the bugs turned me off.

The real question here is that a lot of companies don't see balancing as an issue. They see it more as a question of taste, some want a more realistic game, some don't. And if it's a question of taste we can't patch it. That's what I've seen, and I've seen it too many times.

Secondly like I said previously, there is flexibility in big companies. There is a QA board, internal and beta testers, there is press articles, etc... big companies do listen to feedback either internal or external, probably more so than indie developers.

They listen to whom they decide to listen, if big companies really listened they wouldn't DRM their games, take spore for example, do you think they listened?
People were screaming that the second part of the game didn't feel right.
How could they have released a game like that with all the beta testing they probably had.
Look dark spore, it went down the same road.

There were people that still liked them, it sold as hell, EA made big money with it.
But the game is still not balanced, it still sucks and it's a horrible game.


Thirdly you seem to have a common misconception on how big companies work. Right now I can't think of any big developer who doesn't have a communication channel of some sort.
Continuous support (in the form of patches) is usually given until a year or so after the game is released, I don't know of many indie developers who do that.
Big companies might not listen to you but that's not because they lack "flexibility", but rather because they have way too many customers to listen to and you can't expect them to pick each and every suggestion/opinion/bug report and do something about it. Indie developers, if put in a similar situation, wouldn't be any different.

Most of indie games I've played and liked were given constant patches. But I like just a few of them.

Having too many customers is a lack of flexibility if you don't have a way to listen to them all, if you can't handle all the input then it's lacking something, even if there's no possible way to address them all, it's still a problem.

But I'm not saying that they didn't made a forum or that they didn't put an email for you to send or something like that. I mean that however I try to contact them I fail.
I look and see forums full of people complaining and they still doesn't address the issue.
I look and see people launching unofficial patches, I see people reverse engineering games and they still don't address the issue.

Why can't they do it? Their boss don't let them, the publisher didn't authorize (I actually got this one as an answer once), they don't have the budget to allocate someone to address it.
It doesn't matter, the issue isn't being addressed.

There are lots of indie developers that act the same way as big companies, just because there are so many lazy people in the world.

But being an indie developer, it means that I don't depend on a publisher or allocating resources or having to ask my boss if he allows it. Being a indie developer allows me to address the issue faster. It doesn't matter if indie developers do it or not.

Big companies have trouble filtering all the information they get from their customers, but good big companies manage to filter, manage to address them, manage to deliver a great game.

As well a good indie developers.

But being a big company makes it difficult to handle these issues.


Now I'm confused, I think I wrote too much I don't remember what was my point exactly. :D
EDIT: Sorry about my English.

EDIT2: Hi Marobug, could you please take a look at this thread: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=62372
 

Marobug

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Messages
566
Man you managed to completely twist the entire discussion, first we talk about balancing in big companies now you're talking about how they usually ship games with bugs, then you mix the DRM issue with not listening to customers, you compare how things work in a baby shampoo company in your country with how big game companies work etc..
I think this particular discussion derailed completely and I don't feel like answering to that wall of text so let's focus on what matters, your project. :lol:
I'll check out that thread and let you know what I think. :)
 

tiagocc0

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Messages
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Location
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Marobug said:
Man you managed to completely twist the entire discussion, first we talk about balancing in big companies now you're talking about how they usually ship games with bugs, then you mix the DRM issue with not listening to customers, you compare how things work in a baby shampoo company in your country with how big game companies work etc..
I think this particular discussion derailed completely and I don't feel like answering to that wall of text so let's focus on what matters, your project. :lol:
I'll check out that thread and let you know what I think. :)

Ok. :D

Just a side note about my job at J&J: "The corporation includes some 250 subsidiary companies with operations in over 57 countries. Its products are sold in over 175 countries."
I had to deal with J&J employees from Germany, Italy, France, England, USA, Japan, India, Mexico and a few more countries.
It was rare having to deal with actual Brazilian employees.
 

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