Anime Steam curators

[Zorba the Hutt]

DA:O on this list reflects Codex taste and sensibilities for better or worse.

I thought the idea of having a group of "monocled gentlemen" curating the list was to ensure quality and as you said:

This is list is a public face of the codex. A "hey try these games if you like the other ones on the list".

It comes across as a bit of a grasp for mainstream popularity, like when Dark Souls was included 'because people who have that game will see our list and try proper RPGs'. What followed was multiple posts crowing about catching YOGS or whatever in popularity.

IMO it would be better to stick to the stated aim "RPGs, preferably of the old-school non-popamole variety" and edit out some of the mediocre stuff (incl some Vogel games).

my 2c.

 

[Infinitron]

All of the games on the list are included because I deem them Codexian enough. It's not about attracting newbies or accessibility and I don't know where you got that from.

The Witcher and Dragon Age are included with caveats (as you'll notice by reading their recommendation texts) which is also why I waited a long time before adding them.

And yes, one of the joys of adding Dragon Age is pissing off Witcher fans by equivocating the two games.

 

[tuluse]

I thought the idea of having a group of "monocled gentlemen" curating the list was to ensure quality and as you said:



It comes across as a bit of a grasp for mainstream popularity, like when Dark Souls was included 'because people who have that game will see our list and try proper RPGs'. What followed was multiple posts crowing about catching YOGS or whatever in popularity.

IMO it would be better to stick to the stated aim "RPGs, preferably of the old-school non-popamole variety" and edit out some of the mediocre stuff (incl some Vogel games).

my 2c.

I wish we could have multiple lists to be honest. Not only for 2 RPG lists (one "hall of fame" and one "pretty good"), but also so we could have an adventure game list.

 

[Jaesun]

Then I guess we need to start up a new site: AdventureDex™

 

[Metro]

^ Can't wait for the great recommendations there: Tales from the Borderlands, Walking Dead Seasons 1 and 2, Bird Fucker Simulator 9000!

 

[Jaesun]

If I'm in charge of it, it sure the fuck will not have any of that interactive movie shit in the list.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

It comes across as a bit of a grasp for mainstream popularity, like when Dark Souls was included 'because people who have that game will see our list and try proper RPGs'. What followed was multiple posts crowing about catching YOGS or whatever in popularity.

It's not about attracting newbies or accessibility and I don't know where you got that from.

Well, that was the impression I got from discussions in both this thread and the news one. Comments like this:

If the goal is to shine the spotlight on lesser known games that deserve attention, than including popular games is useful for that. People will look at the list and think hey I liked Dark Souls, I wonder else I might like on here.
If the entire list was Underrails and E:Cs, then someone might look at it and think I don't know what any of this is, skip.
Also, we show up on store pages of the popular games, so someone just looking at the Dark Souls store page would see our curator list.

(Sorry, couldn't resist leaving this here: )

Nah. I have decreed - no post-NWN Bioware stuff or post-Morrowind Bethesda stuff.
It's not that I necessarily think those games are the SPAWN OF SATAN, but I think ignoring them is part of our image.

 

[tuluse]

Are we recommending KOTOR? Jade Wossname? Don't see it. Perception of the list as codexian was the last thing it had going for it, since it's already a joke by any other measure (early access games...unreleased games...dark souls 2...a fucking graphic mod for nethack?), but hey, at least it looked hardcore, right?

Dragon Age is a significantly better RPG than KotOR and Jade Empire (and more "hardcore" [though I don't really care about hardcore-ness, neither Fallout nor PST are actually difficult and they're the most loved roofles]).

So I don't care about "looking" one way or another. I want to recommend good RPGs. What's good will always be contentious but by any reasonable measure, DA:O is on the good side of the line between good and bad.

Is the list sullied by having 6/10 and 7/10 games on it? Maybe, but this wasn't intended to be a super exclusive list.

Well, that was the impression I got from discussions in both this thread and the news one. Comments like this:



(Sorry, couldn't resist leaving this here: )

Different people will have different ideas about what the list is for and how we should use it. I do think outreach is goal with the list and I will personally argue for inclusion of games that meet a minimum criteria of "good" to be included for that purpose.

I also disagreed with that last quite by Infinitron right from the beginning.

I also also am a more junior member of codex contributors so I just make my case and defer to Infintron, Jaesun and CB.

 

[Scroo]

Are we recommending KOTOR? Jade Wossname? Don't see it. Perception of the list as codexian was the last thing it had going for it, since it's already a joke by any other measure (early access games...unreleased games...dark souls 2...a fucking graphic mod for nethack?), but hey, at least it looked hardcore, right?

Dragon Age is a significantly better RPG than KotOR and Jade Empire (and more "hardcore" [though I don't really care about hardcore-ness, neither Fallout nor PST are actually difficult and they're the most loved roofles]).

So I don't care about "looking" one way or another. I want to recommend good RPGs. What's good will always be contentious but by any reasonable measure, DA:O is on the good side of the line between good and bad.

Is the list sullied by having 6/10 and 7/10 games on it? Maybe, but this wasn't intended to be a super exclusive list.

I dunno but aren't RPGs still measured by their level of fun? And imho both KotOR and JE are waaay more fun than DA:O's endless level-scaling filler combats. Of course this is just my opinion but I don't see how DA:O is objectively so much better than the other two games. Thinking about these dwarven dungeons in DA:O triggers me badly!

 

[Infinitron]

KOTOR and JE are too consolized, but I did let in KOTOR2 for its MCA-ness.

I don't know, I guess there's an entire legion of folks out there who didn't notice that DA:O has an overhead view and are just thinking of it as a generic fantasy KOTOR? Don't really understand what people are so shocked at otherwise, as if we were recommending a cover-based shooter or something. It's a party-based RPG with some C&C and Bioware companions. *shrug*

And yeah Zorba the Hutt, I changed my mind. It happens. I mostly just wanted to lay down some limits for the beginning of the list, when there were still more important things to do with it than argue endlessly about Dragon Age, Witcher, etc. There still are games I'd like added, but it looks like I might have to play them myself to get a definite impression.

 

[Black]

See, I was dead srs all the times when I said "ban Infinitron".
But you didn't listen and here we are.

 

[tuluse]

I dunno but aren't RPGs still measured by their level of fun?

Only if you want to sink to BSN/Bethesda forum levels. You have to explain why something is fun.

And imho both KotOR and JE are waaay more fun than DA:O's endless level-scaling filler combats. Of course this is just my opinion but I don't see how DA:O is objectively so much better than the other two games. Thinking about these dwarven dungeons in DA:O triggers me badly!

I never played JE, so I can't speak to it, but KotOR combat becomes mindless as soon as you are a Jedi. Just use force speed and get 10 billion attacks per round and never look back. DA:O also has better C&C and 1 additional party member!

Anways, KotOR comes in about 10 spots lower than DA:O on our top 70 list and I don't think Jade Empire shows up at all. So the voting public made it clear they found DA:O more fun than KotOR. If you want to make an argument that KotOR should be included, I'm all ears.

Edit:

Bioware companions.

I believe you have a choice of companions and can murder then in DA:O as well. So they're not forced like ME companions are. I haven't played the game in years, so I don't recall fully though.

 

[Jaesun]

If you want to make an argument that KotOR should be included, I'm all ears.

It was the first "classic" RPG, duh!

 

[Scroo]

I never played JE, so I can't speak to it, but KotOR combat becomes mindless as soon as you are a Jedi. Just use force speed and get 10 billion attacks per round and never look back. DA:O also has better C&C and 1 additional party member!

Combat aspect regarding KotOR might be true but how is it worse than level scaled enemies that eat the same amount of fireballs at lvl 20 as they did at lvl 3? While still being the EXACT SAME ENEMIES. And just because it has better C&C (did DA:O really have much C&C to begin with? Wasn't it pretty superficial and typical biowarian stuff? I think my brain all suppressed it to protect me from permanent damage so my memories are a bit clouded.) I'm not sure it makes DA:O instantly a "good" RPG. It might have been good for 2009 because there simply wasn't anything else but 6 years later... I dunno. I still fail to see how it is objectively a good rpg.

And honestly while it's true that there are other questionable entries on that list that also doesn't justify adding other questionable entries or else we'll end up as the watch

Also I don't need KotOR included. Or JE. I just do not understand why the mediocre DA:O gets included under somewhat shady arguments while these two other more or less mediocre RPGs that are definitely less known nowadays than DA don't. The "one game of this kind is enough" argument won't count either, else we wouldn't need every single Vogel game in existence on that list. It seems a bit random but then again it's your decision of course *shrug*

 

[tuluse]

Combat aspect regarding KotOR might be true but how is it worse than level scaled enemies that eat the same amount of fireballs at lvl 20 as they did at lvl 3? While still being the EXACT SAME ENEMIES.

Having to think is better than not having to think. Level scaling is annoying and a brute force way to do this, but it can accomplish this goal.

And just because it has better C&C (did DA:O really have much C&C to begin with? Wasn't it pretty superficial and typical biowarian stuff?

Nope, it had some real honest to goodness c&c. You should read the VD review.

I think my brain all suppressed it to protect me from permanent damage so my memories are a bit clouded.) I'm not sure it makes DA:O instantly a "good" RPG. It might have been good for 2009 because there simply wasn't anything else but 6 years later... I dunno. I still fail to see how it is objectively a good rpg.

Well the bar to reach for "good" in the land of RPGs is pretty low in my opinion. I think DA:O is a 6-7/10 (probably closer to 7). That's above 5, so I call it "good".

And honestly while it's true that there are other questionable entries on that list that also doesn't justify adding other questionable entries or else we'll end up as the watch

A fair point. I do wish we could have 2 lists as I said before.

Also I don't need KotOR included. Or JE. I just do not understand why the mediocre DA:O gets included under somewhat shady arguments while these two other more or less mediocre RPGs that are definitely less known nowadays than DA don't. The "one game of this kind is enough" argument won't count either, else we wouldn't need every single Vogel game in existence on that list. It seems a bit random but then again it's your decision of course *shrug*

Like I said, I believe (and I think my fellow curators do as well), that DA:O is (at least) one step above the games you mentioned.

I also think it marks an interesting symbolic point to break with Bioware. Though this seems to have more people wanting to use the symbolism to not have it on the list, I think it's a bigger statement to have it there. This latter argument is much weaker though, so I'll still with "I think it was a good RPG and should be recommended to people to play, and I think people that liked it will likely find our other recommended RPGs interesting which might lead some souls down the path of incline".

 

[Darth Roxor]

10/10 it's okay - RPG Codex

 

[Absalom]

10/10 Good for what it is - RPG Codex

FTFY

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

We have won against the Russians!

 

[Black]

That DA:O recommendation must've brought a lot of true gamers, cool victory, faggots.

 

[A user named cat]

 

[MRY]

@WWSGames Primordia is now on the @RPGWatch Steam Curation list: http://store.steampowered.com/curator/4973374-RPGWatch… - a great point-and-click adventure!

Guess I know who my real friends are.

 

[MicoSelva]

Good news is we are on page #3 with over 22 000 watchers, way above Angry Joe's pathetic 19 000. :D

Even more good news is RPGWatch is on page #2 with 32 000 watchers, which makes sense as their list is objectively better (because they recommend Primordia).

 

[Black]

Maybe they should add a few more popamoles like DA to jump through rpgwatch. It's not like quality is the issue here.

 

[Abelian]

Even more good news is RPGWatch is on page #2 with 32 000 watchers, which makes sense as their list is objectively better at targeting the lowest common denominator

Fixed

 

[Jaesun]