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Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Bruticis, Apr 23, 2015.

  1. Xathrodox86 Savant

    Xathrodox86
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    Damn right and that's why it is so outrageous. I understnad that this world is run by money, but this is just shameless. And dumb.
     
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  2. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    :necro:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-modders-absolutely-need-to-be-paid/

     
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  3. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

    Rahdulan
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    So basically, what they got from that whole Skyrim paid mods fiasco was that they simply chose the wrong game to start with and they'll get it right the second time because they'll make it less controversial? :retarded:
     
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  4. Hoaxmetal Arcane

    Hoaxmetal
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    Steam should offer/promote easy ways to donate to Steam workshop modders but pay-only mods should be verbotten.
     
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  5. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
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    Impossible, copyrights issues will stop that fast.

    If they really want to pay moders , give them cut from the 30% Valve take.What next ,early access buyer must be paid as they are testers?
     
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  6. racofer Thread Incliner

    racofer
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    I agree in the case of Bethesda games. Modders are the ones providing extended support for their titles after release, anyway.
     
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  7. Hoaxmetal Arcane

    Hoaxmetal
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    What copyright issues? If a game has steam workshop then the devs are fine with somewhat curated mods and linking to a patreon or steam gift option isn't directly tied with the mod itself. Anyway your whole post is retarded.
     
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  8. Alienman Arcane Patron

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    Let me guess. Their new games will feature pay-for-mods in some way.
     
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  9. Latelistener Cipher

    Latelistener
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    Valve and Bethesda should pay modders from their own pockets, if they think that they 'absolutely' need to be paid.

    They just want to parasite on someone else's work, while no one really needs them. If someone wants to pay for a mod, he'll go on Nexus, and either send creators some cash, or ask them what they want, and encourage them in some other way.
     
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  10. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
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    The simplest way would be to make it easier to buy them stuff on their wishlist. No money changes hands except from the buyer to Valve.
     
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  11. pippin Guest

    pippin
    Hey, it worked with the likes of Team Fortress et al.
     
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  12. Outlander Custom Tags Are For Fags. Patron

    Outlander
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    Such a surpise (not) These years Valve is all about getting a cut out of anything they can get their hands on (lol @ movies and metric tons of shit games on Steam) Of course they're looking for ways to monetize mods, even after that terrible Skyrim fiasco, and to facilitate the publishing of even more shitty games.

    And of course their new games are for VR, so they can push out the Vive headset. Inb4 Portal 3 is VR-only.
     
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  13. Khorne Arbiter

    Khorne
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    Maybe they do get it right this time.

    A $60 game with full featured editor where content mods are sold separately is OK for modders if the platform is secure and the game in question features mod support from the start.
    But I already suspect $60 game with editor which requires multiple $20 DLC and an external commercial tool like 3DMAX or PS will become the norm.
    The devs and publishers will make more, commercial tools will sell better, modders will get some scraps, but the end users are fucked because what used to be a $60 game now costs way more.

    It's about promoting the devs and the platform though, not about promoting the modders.
    When someone makes a good mod, the devs can just take it and claim they made it during office hours but it was somehow leaked.
    They can also repost a mod on workshop and attach countless positive reviews for it, because they have limitless amount of keys and reviews.
    So the actual modders are fucked too, they must invest time and money just like the devs, and still risk their work being stolen because the platform allows it.

    Only way I can see valve pulling this off is by forcing all modders to do their work in cloud based virtual systems hosted on the platform and assigning a set of encrypted keys to each and every one of them.
    Too bad the game publishers are often too cheap to set this up, and would rather just grab the profits but shift both the risk and the blame to end users.
     
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  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    I think the big problem with paid mods is that most mods aren't worth paying for, and most modders start out making mods that aren't worth paying for. There needs to be an incentive to release smaller mods for free, because a garbagefest of nickel-and-dime cosmetic crap is something that will turn people off.
     
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  15. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
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    One of the biggest problems with paid mods was evident almost immediately. There was bunch of mods uploaded to Steam workshop which contained assets stolen from other modders. This pissed off many modders who openly said that in case of monetizing mods they will cease modding Bethesda games.

    There are several other problems with getting paid mods for a game like Skyrim where mods are not only cosmetic but add functionality and expand the game itself.


    To create anything more complex then recoloring of armor or building something with in game assests you need third party utilities which are free since they are made by modders for modders. If mods get monetized expect those utilities to also get price tag, which would alienate a number of future modders.

    Complex mods need a lot of work and modding community helps with creating them both by releasing utilites to make modders life easier but also with advices, sharing assets and play testing. If mods are monetized few would be eager to help their competition.

    As mentioned fear of stealing assets would with above mentioned things cripple the community which in return would produce far less more complex quality mods.

    Bethesda would be hurt in the long run since mods expand shelf life of the game, the better the community the game will sell longer. Not to mention that many people who buy Bethesda games are well aware that their games are very flawed and few are eager to buy 60$ game, 40$ season pass and spend 100$ extra for unofficial patches, UI fixes and bunch of other mods that make their games actually playable.
     
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  16. Khorne Arbiter

    Khorne
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    Sure the 3rd party toolmakers need incentive, but I think valve (and not the end users) should compensate them, audit the tools before making them available, and curate the list of these tools.
    Best thing to do would be giving all modders remote access to a set of virtualized tools, rather than limit the platform to select few modders who can afford the tools license.
    As opposed to: If you want to mod, you must buy overpriced_garbage(tm) because overpriced_garbage(tm) was used to make the game, but we're not allowed to ship overpriced_garbage(tm) with it.

    My point is that mods would be better if everyone had access to same tools, and the ripping of assets couldn't be more obvious if the environment was completely under valve's control.
    Right now it's not at all under their control, if you want to mod certain titles you can choose between official crippled editor and a bunch of 3rd party tools many of which are malware.
    Not only that, but sometimes the devs ship the editor saying it's full, but is missing half the features used to make the game because they're closed source macros or some shit.
    Just saying, don't bother getting into it before they fix the workshop in some way that ensures the content is fully supported and actually original content and not a ripoff.
    When it becomes more than just a Hat shop and starts including remakes and retextures I might go and spend a few bucks. Until then I wouldn't recommend it, I'm not all that into hats.
     
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  17. Drax Arcane

    Drax
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    The current "model" of game modding is perfect as it is, the ONLY reason to change it is to milk even more money for AAA publishers and valve, let's not do the rationalizing for them.
     
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  18. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
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    You are implying Valve needs to monopolize modding scene and then control it as it sees fits. Which I find nothing but a scary prospect seeing how I doubt (despite Gaben words) that their primary objective is well being of modders and not them milking extra money for their own benefit.

    Now Im talking about Bethesda modding scene I dont know much about state of modding of other games, but the current Bethesda modding scene consist of huge number of modders who get quality fan made third party programs, advice, help, assets and cooperation of large friendly community. That sounds to me as a perfect modding enviroment that doesnt need to change and the proof of that is a huge number of quality mods that get many new releases and updates 6 years after game was released.

    The short period that Skyrim mods were monetized already saw many fractures in the community. Like some putting essential mods on sale, others refusing to monetize but saying they would no longer cooperate with those who sell their mods and calling them traitors and many just looking if anyone has used their assets in mods that were put on sale.

    In a short period of time a lot of bad blood was made and once united community was quickly falling apart, becuase of money.

    So I dont know how would monetizing mods work for some other games, but for Bethesda games I cant see anything but disaster.
     
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  19. Khorne Arbiter

    Khorne
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    Not really, all I'm saying is valve should provide tools and compensate tool authors if they want a cut from every mod created by these tools.
    I'd say the same thing if nexus or blizzard started selling mods, so don't twist my words.

    Last time they tried it couldn't have possibly work because:

    1. The modding community was already mature and healthy.
    2. The publisher was very very greedy and valve did not make it clear whether or not they take a cut only for hosting.
    3. They announced a huge cut they will take, but not a word on support, security and authenticity of these products they were selling.
    4. There was a legal problem with some of the tools/mods license.

    I already discussed this in another modding thread on this forum.
     
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  20. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
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    Its just silly to think Valve or anyone else would provide tools for free to modders or compensate authors for every mod created by those tools for every game on Steam. Not to mention that many modders would not share their tools intentionally, even for a price in order to remove competition. Again for Skyrim every single complex mod needs SKSE, imagine that team refusing to share that even for Valve money and only keeping it for themselves to produce paid mods that would be 1/10 of quality that a community would produce.

    Im not twisting your words, you talked only about Valve taking control on mods, if you talked only about Nexus then I would have implied the same thing only about them.



    Sure those are the reasons why it failed so quickly. But you keep missing my point, Im not saying you cant make a working system to monetize mods, Im saying that monetization of mods would be a negative thing for all parties involved.

    So let me repeat myself.

    Players would be hurt because many of them would refuse to pay for mods and/or refuse to buy the game itself since they know without mods they are not worth the time.

    Even if you make a perfect system without any flaws that make modders not afraid of anyone stealing their assets and getting a fair amount of money per sale, you would still have a problem of competition and of cooperation. The best Skyrim mods were made by large number of modders aka community working together. You can forget that when money becomes an issue.

    With the shortage of quality mods, word of mouth will dry up just like the shelf life of the game, decreasing publishers profits.



    So again the biggest problem of monetizing mods is not in creating a good platform for selling mods but the implications it would have on the modding community itself.
     
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  21. Khorne Arbiter

    Khorne
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    But valve already provides hammer. free tools for source engine, blizzard has given players the best map editor out there, and for example Xenonauts devs have shared the source code.
    I don't see a problem except the publisher greed, and braindead developers using Flash or some other obsolete tech with a prohibiting license.

    I disagree, you see the software community works together kind of the same way, there is git for example which is used by both commercial and non-commercial devs.
    Sometimes they do both at the same time, but only providing support and patches for the paid version.

    Well if the platform is bad nobody will buy or sell mods, so creating a good one is a logical step forward.
    And if the game is brand new and unheard of, then it lacks a community so it can't possibly be affected in any way.
     
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  22. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
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    Im not talking about mod tools that devs release for their own games. Im talking about third party utilities made by modders to expand limitations of offical tools and/or make modding easier. For each Bethesda game there are dozens of them and they are completely free for community to use and pretty essential if you want to do any serious modding. I dont believe Valve or Bethesda will, in case of monetization, buy the right to distribute every single utility to every modder for free.

    You can disagree becaue you dont know that community. Big complex mods are a product thats several years in making of huge number of modders providing free help in custom made utilities, assets, programming, scripting, advices and huge number of time spent testing. What Im talking about is not a theory or possibility but what actually happened. Let me repeat myself, for a short time that Skyrim mods were monetized there were massive cracks in the community that created bad blood between modders that lasts even today. The moment mods became monetized again you can forget seeing those people working together ever again.


    Creating a good platform is easier said then done. Lets say Valve does it, will they buy and provide all third party utilities needed for modding, will they provide quality control and protect assets, will they ask for a cut or do all that for free and how much will be a publisher cut. There are losts of things to be done in order to create a great platform for paid mods and in reality it is possible if the publisher and Valve would do it while having well being of modders and players as a main goal, which is just laughable.


    This is simply naive, same problems of the old community befalls new one. Lets ignore the fact that for Bethesda games its the same community that mods every single their game and will do so for every future game. Instead lets say a totally new game from a new developer comes with toolset and devs encourage players to create mods for money.

    You again have competition and lack of cooparation between modders as a main problem, not to mention constant fear of assets theft. You will still sometimes get a good complex mod but nowere near as good as many or as complex as the one where entire community works together for the community.[/QUOTE]
     
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  23. Gerrard Arcane

    Gerrard
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    Why are you autistically screeching about this again when they have been selling "mods" on the curated workshops for years now?
     
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  24. Khorne Arbiter

    Khorne
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    There's thousands of maps on hive workshop for a single game. Your point is?

    I'm not trying to be rude, but you wrote Bethesda 3 times in each post on this page, you're trying to earn a tag or something?
    If you had read the rest of the thread you'd realize I've no respect for them whatsoever, so excuse my utter disregard for their community.

    If I could go to workshop and buy a complete retexture for diablo2, or maybe a modern vulkan port of some older games, then I would go there and buy.
    It's in everyone's best interest that the Hat shop becomes a place where you can go and support the things you want, not a place where you get ripped off.

    Don't care if that divides some random community or not.
     
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  25. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
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    Im sorry my english is far from great but I thought I was quite clear about this. Im not talking here about mods but third party made utilities that are essential for complex modding. Here is what you said " all I'm saying is valve should provide tools and compensate tool authors if they want a cut from every mod created by these tools" for which I replied that there are low chance that Valve or anyone else would buy every single essential utility made for modding and just give it away to every single modders.

    Well you are trying to rude, but I dont mind. As I said before, again forgive my poor english since obviously its quite poor since I need to repeat myself every post. I said before that Im know about Bethesda modding community and I speak about my experience from that angle. I dont claim to speak for every modding community since every single one is different and you cant apply all same rules to every community and expect the same results.

    Well I have very little love for Bethesda but their modding community is one of the best if not the best in gaming. Treating them the same as the developer and openly showing contempt for them can hardly make you look objective in this discussion.

    Good for you.

    Was that ever in question?

    Well my impression was that ultiamte goal of modding was about fans creating quality content for games they love, not to earn a quick buck even if that ruins the said community.

    To each his own I guess.
     
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