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Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,514
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game. If I see that fucking teapot one more time... Well I don't play it anymore so I won't but you see my point.
The problem is that the "hand-crafted" stuff is also entirely RNG so whatever story you get is usually hodgepodge of random events that do not connect into anything of substance.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,783
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,357
Location
Itaca
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

This a 4X game, procedural generation of the world is almost a must in the genre. Another thing is that I agree that story driven and procedural generation do not mix well and that is probably the originall flaw in Stellaris design from the beginning. Anyway I never played it for the anomalies or the excavations, what I like about it is the Empire Design and enjoying the fantasy that it's going to actually matter. Sometimes it actually works for a time.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,485
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

But the reason the handcrafted world works and is popular is because it is based on history. There's a reason they never make a game about a boring or poorly documented part of history. Plus you can blame history for bad stuff. Stellaris is a sci fi game. There's virtually no sci fi grand strategy games comparable to Paradox historical games.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,216
Location
Space Hell
Unyielding is weak as fuck, only good reason to get it as a Tradition, is if you've started next-door to Genocidals.
Yeah, so weak it can give 125k str starbases. This thing is almost mandatory both early game and end-game. We'll see how things will change with relays as bases was the main source of delaying enemy fleet to get your to chokepoint in time.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,783
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

But the reason the handcrafted world works and is popular is because it is based on history.

Wrong, see Anbennar.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,151
Unyielding is weak as fuck, only good reason to get it as a Tradition, is if you've started next-door to Genocidals.
Yeah, so weak it can give 125k str starbases. This thing is almost mandatory both early game and end-game. We'll see how things will change with relays as bases was the main source of delaying enemy fleet to get your to chokepoint in time.

Unfortunately a 125k str starbase is probably worth more like ~80k in fleet power and grand admiral AIs can get that around 80ish years in. And if you're fighting any kind of crisis or fallen/awoken empire its nothing on any difficulty.

Also, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,216
Location
Space Hell
lso, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
Tradition:
−50%
Starbase Upgrade Cost
And plus rare techs that you will get by that time to get another -25% cost reduction and +50% build speed.
Crisis often move in fleets of either 125k or 36-55k - and starbases successfully fend off that small fleets, preventing incrusons into your territory.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,357
Location
Itaca
I think people are mixing two things that are related but they are different: Space Bases and Weapon Platforms:

Military Space bases are incredibly cost effective for what they provide, in many situations they won't be enough to stop the enemy on their own but will provide huge support to a defending fleet via extra firepower and soaking damage.
Economic Star Bases provide extra stuff without having to invest POPULATION: food, energy, trade and fleet capacity, even some minerals and science as some ethics attraction that will result in higher happiness on planet -> stability -> planetary production.
Weapon Platforms, are almost guaranteed casualties in any serious battle this is why they are considered very expensive, it's not that they actually are but that compared to a fleet that will be mostly recovered even after a defeat losing all weapon platforms is a huge blow to accumulated alloy production.

That said, Unyielding is one of the top tradition now, because it doesn't just make for better and cheaper bases/weapon platforms but provides other very useful bonuses as well, like less War Exhaustion, Fire Rate in defensive War, extra base capacity which can be converted into energy, food and ship capacity almost for free. Most other traditions have nerfed so badly that this one is very easily one of the best available now if not the absolute best.
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,650
Concerning vanilla game: Indeed, I haven't played unmodded stellaris for so long, I shouldn't have said anything about vanilla traditions.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,151
lso, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
Tradition:
−50%
Starbase Upgrade Cost
And plus rare techs that you will get by that time to get another -25% cost reduction and +50% build speed.
Crisis often move in fleets of either 125k or 36-55k - and starbases successfully fend off that small fleets, preventing incrusons into your territory.
Starbase upgrade cost doesn't apply to defensive platforms. Or, if it does, then the 2k alloys per ion cannon was after the discount.
A starbase without unyielding will still have ~90k fleet power and will perform exactly the same against a 125k (totally destroyed) and a 36-55k fleet (easy win.

That said, Unyielding is one of the top tradition now, because it doesn't just make for better and cheaper bases/weapon platforms but provides other very useful bonuses as well, like less War Exhaustion, Fire Rate in defensive War, extra base capacity which can be converted into energy, food and ship capacity almost for free. Most other traditions have nerfed so badly that this one is very easily one of the best available now if not the absolute best.

Less war exhaustion generally doesn't matter because you should just win.
Fire rate in defensive wars is so rarely used as to not matter.
Extra base capacity for food is pretty weak. It's 10 per platform. Energy is great (honestly kind of broken) for hiveminds and machines, but normal empires don't get it. Running out of ship capacity is really rare if all your starbases but 1 or 2 at chokepoints are upgraded to full energy production.

Also note that supremacy's effects apply to starbases.
 
Last edited:
Unwanted

Don Salieri

Unwanted
Zionist Agent
Joined
May 5, 2022
Messages
78
They removed Caucasians from the game. Now the UNE Humans are either a pajeet, a chink, or a nigger.
It's paracuck, what do you expect? In the leaked Victoria 3 beta you can see how they remove Europeans after management talk to the artists. Suddenly there's niggers leading European revolutions and people have their race changed to fulfill Martin Anward's cuckold fetish or something, or maybe the company moneykike demanded it.

vf7vfHX.jpg


You think you have it bad? Oh you ain't seen nothing, pal. Even if there were real humans in Stellaris it would still be piece of shit game not worth playing. Some guy who posts here made a remake of Master of Orion, carbon copy down to minute mechanics, impossible to fuck it up if you clone it right. Except the humans are the encyclopedia picture you get in the section on dysgenics. Look at this shit, makes you think those ugly brown monkeys the kikes jam into everything aren't so bad anymore. A poster child of racial hygiene, I don't care what race you are, nobody wants their kids to look that fucked up.

GE4mqyR.jpg
 

Kruno

Arcane
Patron
Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
11,478
They removed Caucasians from the game. Now the UNE Humans are either a pajeet, a chink, or a nigger.

I was looking at their forums, the original files are still there.

Surprise surprise, Paradox bugged up
it is a marketing trick
if it backfires they can just say it was a bug
this was intentional to see if they could drum up more sales by being woke
 

Kruno

Arcane
Patron
Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
11,478
lso, you're spamming Ion Cannons to get that which are 2k alloys apiece. That's ~16000 alloys per star base and those ion cannons will be destroyed even if the starbase wins.
Tradition:
−50%
Starbase Upgrade Cost
And plus rare techs that you will get by that time to get another -25% cost reduction and +50% build speed.
Crisis often move in fleets of either 125k or 36-55k - and starbases successfully fend off that small fleets, preventing incrusons into your territory.
They changed the AI and how fleets separate. I wonder if what you said still holds.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,151
Vassals are busted. All you need is to get them to like you through bribes/trust + have a decent navy and rather than invade people you just give them the most lenient vassalage agreement and they'll just accept. Then you get them to support you in wars and later on you get them to give you 75% of their research/resources, which includes the busted higher difficulty bonuses now. Fanatic Xenophile is probably the best build in the game now but I was able to do this with a hugs and kisses machine empire, my first 4 vassals just accepted the agreement without a fight despite them being massively stronger than me.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,783
No the opposite, just don't try to add stupid hand-crafted events in a procgen game.

Overall procgen worlds suck. Procedural generation can be a useful tool to speed up work or add minor variation to an overall handcrafted world (think Diablo 2 - procedural generation adds level variation but the overall Acts and general areas where dungeons are located are fixed) but having the world be entirely procedurally generated yields a world that is soulless and which feels artificial, because it is. That is the reason why 4X games are nowhere near as good as grand strategy games, and it is why making Stellaris a 4X instead of a GS was a mistake.

This a 4X game.

Yes, hence I said that making it a 4X was a mistake. They should have made it a grand strategy game.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,485
Vassals are busted. All you need is to get them to like you through bribes/trust + have a decent navy and rather than invade people you just give them the most lenient vassalage agreement and they'll just accept. Then you get them to support you in wars and later on you get them to give you 75% of their research/resources, which includes the busted higher difficulty bonuses now. Fanatic Xenophile is probably the best build in the game now but I was able to do this with a hugs and kisses machine empire, my first 4 vassals just accepted the agreement without a fight despite them being massively stronger than me.

I saw some absolute idiot praising the game because a military society accepted to be their Bulwark but wouldn't accept other vassal types. "Haha Paradox such good game design". Like bro the AI is dumb as shit they all accept being any vassal type with like 5 seconds of work.
 

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