Strategy games where the AI doesn't cheat?

[Zeus]

I'm looking for a strategy game where the AI doesn't get oodles of bonus resources and other cheat-y advantages just beacuse you crank the difficulty level above Normal.

I'm expecting to hear a lot of games with campaign modes where the odds are stacked against you (which is "fair", as opposed to just giving the CPU empires bonus 50% gold a turn or some other artificial advantage), but what I'd really like is a game where you start on even ground, and then the CPU whips you with skill. You know, kind of like Chess.

Edit: To clarify, strategy games aren't really my strong point, so my "whups you with skill" comment just meant a competent AI that can play the game without some sort of huge advantage (more starting resources or a per-turn resource bonus, etc.)

 

[DakaSha]

Do you want a challenge or just even ground?
edit: oops just saw whips you with skill

Good luck. You wont find one ^^

 

[DakaSha]

C-Evo is probably your best bet when it comes to anything more complex then chess

 

[attackfighter]

Alpha Centauri for sure and perhaps the early Civ games as well.

Edit: oops I just saw "whips you with skill" as well. The AI in AC is competent and can put up a fight, but it won't whip you.

 

[DakaSha]

He wants an even and fair game. It cheats in all of those but the easiest settings (maybe even then ) and isnt a challange

 

[attackfighter]

He wants an even and fair game. It cheats in all of those but the easiest settings (maybe even then ) and isnt a challange

No the AI in AC doesn't cheat.

 

[DakaSha]

Uhm higher settings in AC (which are the only ones that counts as far as challenge) increase drone count for the player.
How is that not cheating?

Im fairly sure that it cheats in other ways regardless of difficulty as well but i cant be assed to look it up

edit: I'm not saying it isn't decent as far as AI's go though.. It's pretty good comparably

 

[Overweight Manatee]

M.A.X.'s AI should be competent enough to school you for a long time before you need to go to the levels where it gets bonuses.

 

[DakaSha]

I was going to say: 'Somebody is going to list M.A.X. but take it with a grain of salt'

M.A.X. doesn't follow the same rules as the human as far as i can tell. For one thing it starts off knowing where you base is.
Play with 4 payers. You WILL get rushed. It's not coincidence either. If you cheat out FOW youll see it beeline for your base every game.
I'm not sure if thats the only thing.. If it is then it's pretty good. But when the game starts off with one cheat its hard to believe it doesnt cheat in other ways
Im just being pessimistic though. You should play M.A.X. regardless. It's a fucking kickass game

 

[Ulminati]

You could always play chess.

You're unlikely to find a mordern computer strategy game where the AI will whip you without cheating. The closest you will get is pre-programmed attack patterns which will seem clever until you realize that AIs have no creativity to work around obstacles they have not been specifically trained to anticipate. If you want a level playing field AND a decent challenge, you need to stick to board games where optimal solutions can be found via a bruteforce search between all possible moves.

 

[Zeus]

Strategy games aren't really my strong point, so my "whups you with skill" comment just meant a competent AI that can play the game without some sort of huge advantage, either much more starting resources or a per-turn resource bonus.

The AI in AC is competent and can put up a fight, but it won't whip you.

Nice. I've heard a lot of fine stuff about AC, and that's just another reason to play it.

C-Evo is probably your best bet when it comes to anything more complex then chess

Also heard that the C-Evo AI is great, so they're both on my list. Much thanks. I actually installed C-Evo last week but forgot about it.

M.A.X.'s AI should be competent enough to school you for a long time before you need to go to the levels where it gets bonuses.

What the heck is M.A.X.? I remember some cyberpunkish adventure game with a similar title, but that can't be right.

If you want a level playing field AND a decent challenge, you need to stick to board games where optimal solutions can be found via a bruteforce search between all possible moves.

This is a good point. Maybe I should look into some PC ports of various board games. I imagine the rules would be a lot simpler to compute, with a much smaller playfield and a limited number of units and whatnot. Maybe the PC port of that Samurai game made by Kzinski? Kinzi? Something like that. I hear he made them take it down. There aren't may PC ports of board games that I can think of. I've seen a bunch ported to Xbox Live. Catan, Carcassonne, Ticket to Ride... I'll have to check 'em out, see if I can find anything on the local/solo AI.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

M.A.X.'s AI should be competent enough to school you for a long time before you need to go to the levels where it gets bonuses.

What the heck is M.A.X.? I remember some cyberpunkish adventure game with a similar title, but that can't be right.

M.A.X: Mechanized Assault and Exploration.

I was going to say: 'Somebody is going to list M.A.X. but take it with a grain of salt' Razz

M.A.X. doesn't follow the same rules as the human as far as i can tell. For one thing it starts off knowing where you base is.
Play with 4 payers. You WILL get rushed. It's not coincidence either. If you cheat out FOW youll see it beeline for your base every game.
I'm not sure if thats the only thing.. If it is then it's pretty good. But when the game starts off with one cheat its hard to believe it doesnt cheat in other ways
Im just being pessimistic though. You should play M.A.X. regardless. It's a fucking kickass game

Alright, I'll accept that it may cheat a bit. But honestly, I think every strategy game is going to be cutting some kind of corners. I don't think the AI's cheats extend to actually knowing where each of your individual units are either, it may just be your general start position.

If you want a level playing field AND a decent challenge, you need to stick to board games where optimal solutions can be found via a bruteforce search between all possible moves.

This is a good point. Maybe I should look into some PC ports of various board games. I imagine the rules would be a lot simpler to compute, with a much smaller playfield and a limited number of units and whatnot. Maybe the PC port of that Samurai game made by Kzinski? Kinzi? Something like that. I hear he made them take it down. There aren't may PC ports of board games that I can think of. I've seen a bunch ported to Xbox Live. Catan, Carcassonne, Ticket to Ride... I'll have to check 'em out, see if I can find anything on the local/solo AI.

Simply being a boardgame really has nothing to do with it. We have no hope of being able to bruteforce chess still, not by several orders of magnitude in computer ability. Good AI actually requires smart people programming it that know the ins and outs of the game. Chess is highly advantaged in this since its so popular. PC games are not that fortunate, sans hackers screwing around with Starcraft.

 

[oscar]

Alpha Centauri AI is pretty good, but doesn't take much advantage of (slightly OP) airpower, doesn't use supply crawlers or try and get "booms" going. That said it is alot more fun to fight then most other AI's as the different faction leaders actually have personalities and base their strategies on them.

 

[DakaSha]

Uhm and dont forget Kyrubs AI patch ^^

 

[DakaSha]

http://www.keldon.net/rftg/

Play that. you will lose HARD. And it does not cheat. Not one bit

 

[Zeus]

http://www.keldon.net/rftg/

Play that. you will lose HARD. And it does not cheat. Not one bit

Will do!

That reminds me of Microprose's Magic: The Gathering. Sid Meier worked on it, Richard Garriott said the AI could actually beat him at the game (and he's the one who invented M:TG). Every time Wizards of the Coast releases a new videogame, it's funny how much it pales in comparison to the Microprose classic. I guess you could say the AI "cheated" in that they had better decks, different life totals, yadda yadda. It was the way the AI used its cards, the combos and advanced strategies, that really made the game shine. And this was in Magic's murkier days, predating concepts like The Stack, back when clones had seven lines of text instead of one.

 

[Destroid]

Race for the Galaxy is a bit like competitive solitaire...

 

[KalosKagathos]

Civ 1 AI definitely cheats. I heard it gets a random chance of instantly building a wonder every freaking turn.

 

[Malakal]

All AIs in civ games are pathetic when not cheating and that includes Alpha Centauri. Kyrub fights the good fight here but done expect wonders.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:19 am

I'm playing Shadow Magic for the first time (having only played AoW1 previously), and I love it.

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:34 am

I'm looking for a strategy game

 

[good little toastboy]

I might remember it wrong (it's been more than ten years) but I think in the RTS 'Z' the AI doesn't cheat. Apart from probably being better at multitasking than you.

 

[DakaSha]

Race for the Galaxy is a bit like competitive solitaire...

Yes it is. And im not saying everybody will like it. However when it comes to AI you cant beat it.
I did have fun with it. Its hard as fuck to learn though (for a card game)

 

[DakaSha]

I might remember it wrong (it's been more than ten years) but I think in the RTS 'Z' the AI doesn't cheat. Apart from probably being better at multitasking than you.

IIRC they started in better positions

 

[Malakal]

Race for the Galaxy is a bit like competitive solitaire...

Yes it is. And im not saying everybody will like it. However when it comes to AI you cant beat it.
I did have fun with it. Its hard as fuck to learn though (for a card game)

I downloaded the opensource version and dont know what is going on. Is there a manual somewhere?

 

[DakaSha]

That reminds me of Microprose's Magic: The Gathering. Sid Meier worked on it, Richard Garriott said the AI could actually beat him at the game (and he's the one who invented M:TG).

It wasnt Richard Garriott xD close though.