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SureAI's new project: Enderal - The Shards of Order

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
What’s the situation with how magic is handled in this, are new spells magically available at vendors when you reach 25/50/75/100 in a school?

In OG Skyrim this always struck me as cheap, devaluing +magic skill gear (bc vendors only offered the next tier of spells based on your inherent skill level).

I think this and Skyrim will ultimately be DOA for me, I’m spoiled by Gothic, KCD and Daggerfall. But if Enderal is really getting away from the Skyrim formula, maybe they fixed the stupid game-y magic spell vendor gating system.
 

monilloman

Novice
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Messages
53
1542BFB170BC5EB970D48E85257487C176D19769
13BEB0B8C78AE46907451C04316E99D541E6B447


I was called a retard by someone with a monocle... clearly the devs are codexers
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Sad Loser
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
23,684
If you love being sad and depressed as much as I do this is the best thing that can possibly happen to you. Every song in this "mod" screams depression. I love it so much.

I'm always reminded of this old remix when playing this.



If you can tolerate Skyrim even a little bit this is a glorious mod/game. Every dungeon is fun to explore, every story feels tragic. I really like the gloomy hopelessness that pervades everything in this game.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
23,917
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
If you love being sad and depressed as much as I do this is the best thing that can possibly happen to you. Every song in this "mod" screams depression. I love it so much.

I'm always reminded of this old remix when playing this.



If you can tolerate Skyrim even a little bit this is a glorious mod/game. Every dungeon is fun to explore, every story feels tragic. I really like the gloomy hopelessness that pervades everything in this game.

Oh man talk about a german overload
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,705
I liked Nehrim for similar reasons but it fell apart once i realized the world is pretty empty with only a few fleshed out npcs. Also combat sucked ass of course. Is Enderal better in this regard?
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Sad Loser
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
23,684
I don't know Nehrim. The world is well fleshed out and there are plenty of memorable NPCs (though also some faceless filler.)

However, there's one thing that may or may not bother you: pretty much everyone you meet outside of cities is hostile. Exceptions to this are insanely rare.

It does make sense though because the world is going to shit so nobody sane would travel outside towns.
 

Sharpedge

Cipher
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,042
Every song in this "mod" screams depression. I love it so much.
Yeah, the soundtrack is great. In my opinion, the ones that capture the feel of the game best are.

1. Our Mark on this World.

2. Fleshless.

3. Fallen Angel

4. Shattered Dreams.

5. Black Waltz.
 

V17

Literate
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Messages
26
I liked Nehrim for similar reasons but it fell apart once i realized the world is pretty empty with only a few fleshed out npcs. Also combat sucked ass of course. Is Enderal better in this regard?

The overall quality of pretty much everything in Enderal is a significant step up from Nehrim imo. I found it overall more polished, more detailed and more balanced. As for combat, it's better than Skyrim, but it's still the same engine. It's more balanced and varied, there are actual different character builds that you can try, but the basic level of bethesda jank stays on a similar level.
 

KateMicucci

Magister
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,208
What’s the situation with how magic is handled in this, are new spells magically available at vendors when you reach 25/50/75/100 in a school?

In OG Skyrim this always struck me as cheap, devaluing +magic skill gear (bc vendors only offered the next tier of spells based on your inherent skill level).

I think this and Skyrim will ultimately be DOA for me, I’m spoiled by Gothic, KCD and Daggerfall. But if Enderal is really getting away from the Skyrim formula, maybe they fixed the stupid game-y magic spell vendor gating system.
Magic is better in Enderal than Skyrim. Mages are more powerful than non-mages. You are encouraged to play a magic user for story purposes. The magic variety is a little bit better, though I wish for a lot more. Skyrim did not allow damage upgrades on magic. In Enderal you buy Fireball III to upgrade over Fireball II. Spells available at shops seems to depend on your level, not skill. Even though shops are levelled the monsters in the world mostly aren't.
 
Last edited:

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Sad Loser
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
23,684
After 107.2 hours I have beaten Enderal and seen all the endings. I played a single character, a stealth archer, on the highest difficulty.

It was a tremendous journey. I do not think it was the best game I ever played but it was very good and I recommend it to anyone who likes RPGs, especially those in the Gothic style of exploration and leveling.

When I started Enderal, I was depressed, about to be homeless (I had not paid my rent in 6 months and been jobless due to depression for 2 years.) There was no way I could afford Elden Ring, which I had few hopes about, but it seemed to be the only game I might like.
When I finished Enderal I had landed a well-paying developer position, had found a place to live, had begun a healthy habit of three daily walks and prayer and meditation and am still depressed. And I did not buy Elden Ring because I do not feel like playing another game for a good long time. This experience completed me for a while.

I recommend this game experience to anyone, but especially the depressed, the melancholy and the bitter. It is a good use of your time.
Thank you.
 
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Angelo85

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
1,564
Location
Deutschland
Starting playing this last week and it's pretty fun.
Usually I go for melee builds in this type of games, but I rolled a mage (Elementalism, Entropy, Heavy Armor) this time. Do you guys recommend going full Mana with level ups or should I increase HP from time to time as well?
I use Entropy mainly for summoning a tanky creature, not to summon weapons and melee myself - I use elementalism spells for dealing damage. Mana becomes an issue in some fights, but so does health. A couple hits and I'm down. Against Melee enemies backpedaling works, archers I can dodge. But mages or elementals are an obstacle that I fear in higher levels might fuck me if I misspend my level up points.

What's your experience with playing a mage? Go for Mana only, or go for Health too?
 

Phos

mask aficionado
Patron
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
486
Grab the Codex by the pussy
the plot to enderal is literally just mass effect except fantasy
:hmmm:

There's a thread about it on reddit where the project lead of SureAI tries to explain that he didn't plagiarize
Mass Effect's
plot (lol):

https://old.reddit.com/r/enderal/co..._out_about_this_standalone_expansion/e5pxnrw/
(link courtesy of Sharpedge)

Project Lead SureAI SureAINicolas 11 points 3 years ago

1.) The first concepts of the story were written by Johannes/Metanoite even before the release of Skyrim. Check the dates here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9rbfu5g4gioo5r/Forunm.JPG?dl=0

No, the story certainly wasn't finished by the time Mass Effect came out, but a very detailed outline was.


4.) In all honesty? Because I thought there's enough in the story that sets it apart. The focus on the player's psyche (dreams), the fact that the High Ones are immaterial and never actively influence the world (only through dreams and visions), the general tone of the writing. Enderal's story is a metaphor - the High Ones are our inner demons, the Beacon is our means of ending humanity's cycle of violence (our ability to fight and struggle in the first place), and the key to "overcome" is in our hands (Numinos). However, we often use our energies for the wrong purpose. The story is heavily inspired by Jungian psychology - some of the critical terms are even directly borrowed from it (Numinos, Passage to the Water, only to name a few). I could go on for hours. Also, keep in mind that the elements that Mass Effect used are also no more than centuries old topos. BioWare gave them their spin, and so did we.

Completely rewriting it would have meant a lot of additional work and we ultimately agreed that this wasn't worth it, as - so we hoped - the differences are obvious enough.

I get the feeling that you have a very skewed perception of what it was like to develop Enderal. Most of us worked or studies full-time during the development and put what spare time we had left into writing, modeling, scripting, composing this game. We had to make do with what we had, and very often, that meant making less-than-ideal compromises. In a perfect world with infinite funding, no personal ups, and downs that affected the development and no pressure to finish the game and "get a real job," we might have rewritten the game and eliminated the similarities after ME3 was released. We didn't have that time. However, seeing how well Enderal was received by most players tells me that we made the right call.

1.) I'm not sure how this should be any kind of proof. A high one already existed in Nehrim and ME1 introduced the reapers long before Nehrim's release.


4.) Of course Mass effect didn't create this story, it rather actively stole it as well from a well known novel by using even the same words for every key element. However, this is the same situation as in "2.)". Just because many people before used the same key story or even stole it, doesn't make it right to do the same thing yourself. That's even worse of a defense again.

While playing both of the games, there isn't really anything that sets them apart more than some pseudo-psychological explanations. Shepards psyche also played a huge role in ME3 displayed in his dreams (where he hears and sees dead people which at the end start burning.. not like I've seen this somewhere else..) yet the game doesn't focus too much on it. And honestly? Neither does Enderal do this too often except for some scenes like Sirius or the Black Guardian. After all, when a player has finished Enderal, he doesn't naturally think "whoah, there are some great metaphors linking to mankinds psyche" - they're thinking "Yay, I saved my ass and my beloved one from the destruction of the energy explosion".

Was rewriting the key similarities Enderal's story really that much work after ME3 came out? After all, Hoxyd said you changed huge parts of it over time and ME3 came out while you certainly haven't finished the story neither big parts of the development.

Of course creating a game while studying or working full-time is very hard, but let's be honest, the major part of it was writing the dialogues since other people did the most of the other things. And while writing, there definitely would have been enough time to at least change scenes that are a blatant ME rip-off. For example:

  • The quest "taming the waves" where you meet Lishari. This quest is definitely """inspired""" by the Mass Effect 1 quest where you meet Liara. That game came out in 2007 and you say you can't see the similarities? You have to go to a dig site of an prothean/pyrean ruin where Liara/Lishari researches prothean/pyrean relics to try to understand them. She spent much of her time researching this last civilization. Then she gets attacked in an attempt to sabotage her and you have to save her.

  • You want to find the Numinos/Catalyst in an old temple of a different race. But on your search, there's another person sabotaging you by releasing a metal dragon that fires energy blasts on you / commanding an attack ship to fire rockets on you, risking to destroy the whole temple.

  • You're almost dead and try to reach a portal that leads you further to the end of the game. You walk to it with the blurred screen and in slow-motion. (This scene looks visually the same in both games).

  • The beacon from Enderal looks visually like the Mass Relays from Mass Effect and it's cleansing-beam looks 1:1 like the portal that leads you up to the citadel, messing up the sky above. You can't tell me you didn't notice this.

  • At the end you get sabotaged again by a possessed/indoctrinated man that attempts to stop you from breaking the cycle. He wants to work together with the reapers/high ones.
These are just a few key scenes. I could go on for many hours.

Enderal is recieved that well because the players either haven't played Mass Effect or are willingly ignoring everything they have in common. I didn't see a single player arguing about this topic in a curious way - I only saw them defend Enderal to death without wanting to think that there could be some truth in what we (that people that point out the similarities) say. It's really like the cult of Apple. Enderal can't do anything wrong, it's just the envious haters that despice everything successful.


That's not what I took from it, that's what almost every single person says directly after they finished the game and join the Enderal Discord to talk about it. Way to be disconnected from your fanbase..

I understand more about the story than you seem to believe. Right after my first playthrough, I joined your forums and discussed about all the different ways to interpret the significant parts of the Enderal story and the meanings behind them. But after having played the Mass Effect triology (after Enderal) it was like the the German saying: Die Luft ist raus. Having similar story elements always happens, but literally looking at copied scenes at the same progress of a story can't happen by accident that often.

I don't see this as a victory, it's just sad to see how you always use the same points and ignore logical others. You always talk about the ME3 release and ignore that the first ME which brought up the whole story concept came out in 2007, for example. However, continuing wasting my time with reading the same answer of yours in 5 different versions isn't worth it either.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,815
Started playing this few days ago. I am immensely impressed, some 25 hours in. Reminds of Kingdom Come quite a bit, especially now when I added ENB that with few kilobytes of data makes it suddenly look nextgen. Absolutely love the exploration in this, the design is wonderfully handcrafted. Ark is impressive as hell. Frankly this is like Skyrim's New Vegas. Using its engine and assets, but better in every way.

Quite heavily modded graphically

Can you specify what mods you used exactly, which ENB, what was the process?

I used first three steps from this ENB:
https://www.nexusmods.com/enderalspecialedition/mods/26?tab=description

And while it looks amazing (screens below), what I noticed is that I have yet to see a blue sky - it is always white (so far) as if overcast, but not really. On your screens I can see some blue there. Can you advise?

Still, amazing:

976620_20220608024651hljrq.png


976620_20220608025344u6jro.png


976620_20220608025433uhkqn.png
 

Nomad_Blizz

Cipher
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
319
Started playing this few days ago. I am immensely impressed, some 25 hours in. Reminds of Kingdom Come quite a bit, especially now when I added ENB that with few kilobytes of data makes it suddenly look nextgen. Absolutely love the exploration in this, the design is wonderfully handcrafted. Ark is impressive as hell. Frankly this is like Skyrim's New Vegas. Using its engine and assets, but better in every way.

Quite heavily modded graphically

Can you specify what mods you used exactly, which ENB, what was the process?

I used first three steps from this ENB:
https://www.nexusmods.com/enderalspecialedition/mods/26?tab=description

And while it looks amazing (screens below), what I noticed is that I have yet to see a blue sky - it is always white (so far) as if overcast, but not really. On your screens I can see some blue there. Can you advise?

Still, amazing:

976620_20220608024651hljrq.png


976620_20220608025344u6jro.png


976620_20220608025433uhkqn.png
hey thanks for the question. I followed the same guide! and I followed it through to the end. but as far as your problem is concerned it's not necessary (I think) to install all of the mods. there's one enb setting that I changed in the enb Gui ingame that improved the visuals for me drastically. I either turned off/on UseOriginalPostProcessing or the one below UseOriginalObjectsProcessing. if I remember correctly that's the only setting from default that I changed. and hope it solves your issue.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,815
hey thanks for the question. I followed the same guide! and I followed it through to the end. but as far as your problem is concerned it's not necessary (I think) to install all of the mods. there's one enb setting that I changed in the enb Gui ingame that improved the visuals for me drastically. I either turned off/on UseOriginalPostProcessing or the one below UseOriginalObjectsProcessing. if I remember correctly that's the only setting from default that I changed. and hope it solves your issue.

Thanks for info, I will try it. And holy shit, you did all 70 steps? Must have taken a while.

Btw this game is incredible to me. I expected it to be good but not this good.
 

Nomad_Blizz

Cipher
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
319
I'm sure there's a good game in there somewhere but I simply cannot deal with the skyrim combat anymore so I gave up playing it twice. The poster above was right. It's just too clunky after playing something like dark souls or bloodborne. Even kingdom come deliverance with its problems with level scaling making combat too easy midgame managed to have a more satisfying combat. it's a shame becuse a lot of the time you're just exploring outside and running into random encounters. Enderal does do many great things like having a believable capital city, quest designs, some introspective of religious matters. it would have benifited a lot having a better game engine.
 

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