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Surviving Mars - colony management sim from Tropico devs

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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March 2018 4,430.3 players.
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Game was not popular from the beginning and lost most of its playerbase quite fast, with 23k players at peak. Not surprising, given how franticly thye are adding new features in free patche to make game look less barebones.
Like most games published by paradox. They are really shit at publishing.
 

Demo.Graph

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,007
Okay, I want to vent my frustration after spending about a 50 hours on this game. After all, I'm really disappointed.

In the basic version the UI is inadequate as there’re very few statistics for an economic sim. There were no history graphs. Maintenance was shown for the last Sol, not as an estimation of future need. Dusting is shown only for specific buildings, and as a percentage – I guess it’s expected from me to empirically guess (or to mess with game data) when I would need to repair stuff and to do calculations manually. Same goes for food – some kind of flow is shown, but I think my pops eat much less. If you want to find a renegade, you need to select each dome and then manually click through all colonists in it. In a patched version an info-panel was finally added, 3 months after the release. When there’s no incentive to get back any more, as there’re much more serious problems with the game.

When you understand resource flow the game turns out to be very easy. An economic system is unbalanced. One farm with potatoes can support about a 100 colonists. It’s nice to see that only 5% of population need to be farmers, but botanists turn out to be useless minority. It's easy to get positive flow in all resources in about 50-75 sols.
On the other hand there’s no realistic way to get money except by exporting gold (or being easy mode US or EU). There’re two techs that give you money, but it’s much more efficient to research other techs. Tourist trait used to be not shown in UI (so you couldn’t understand whether pops you get would run away in a bit or not). It was patched, but the tourism is still useless. It’s not that you’ll really need money (after all the colony becomes self-sustaining very quickly), but then the developers boasted that they’ve made each resource unique. Well, making money useless is unique, I guess. And yes, while I'm at it... There’re no hired colonists, who might want, you know, wages and would like to return to Earth in the end of their contract period unless you make living good enough.

The race mix of the colonists is strange. On the one hand we get predominantly colored mix that might be a nice representation of humanity’s race mix in 2050 or something (or might be just some random mix, considering the sloppiness of developers in other areas). As it was already said you can play Russia and get all negro team of Ivans. Or you can play China and get an even mix of Maos and Lis, but half of them would be blue-eyed caucasians and the other half negros. If the race is cosmetic, why is it even there?
Pop gender might have been completely cosmetic as well. I’m not sure that procreation depends on having enough women mixed with men – I didn’t run the tests, but I definitely didn’t see any woman having pregnant status, the pregnancy affecting productivity somehow or moaning about there being not enough decent men to breed from. I guess kids just pop out from women when their comfort is high, maybe with some cooldown. And gender doesn’t affect anything else.
If all those things were done to stop possible social criticism than developers did shit. Because I definitely can filter pops by gender or disability (and send them to a very specific dome to kill) or to stop people from getting babies. But I can't filter them by race. Very nice.
There’s no social dynamic. No factions or whatever. All in all pops don’t really differ from drones.

The design is sloppy and uneven. Developers went with the 60-s rocketpunk style in line with Big Three’s. I really liked it. The domes are pretty, the droids are cute and steely-eyed rocketmen are nostalgic. But then the developers shouldn’t have added those retarded quotes from Musk (and several of them - he might be the most quoted person in the game, as if there’re no decent people to quote from). It breaks immersion. Many other things made me to raise an eyebrow. In a patch developers renamed Science Institutes to Hawking Institutes to get some recognition points, just because he recently died. They've added those retarded domes (if there’re triangular domes, why aren’t there cubic underground ones?). They've added passages, but didn’t made them into tunnels (that already exist in the game) so that they could block surface space to force you to make “meaningful planning decisions”. The passages also need space inside the domes, as future engineers obviously can’t integrate them into airlocks that also already exist in every dome. And passages effectively obsolete all domes other than small or oval. There's just no incentive to build them.
The pacing of the game is typically Paradox. The robotic based debut is great. The human outpost early-game is good to. And then it all falls apart. There’s no midgame. Achieving self-sufficiency can’t be considered as one (you basically do it when you start to convert gold into electronics instead of exporting it). The wonders can’t be considered midgame as they only demand gathering a bunch of resources, and with current economic model you can easily spam the map with clusters of 2-3 small domes around each resource concentration. There’s no internal social dynamic or external pressure (there’re even no demands from your sponsor/home nation). The only things that might move player forward are rating called evaluation (so what) and achievements (really?). There’s no endgame as well. When you complete the only mystery you get in a playthrough there's nothing left to do. You can’t become, say, politically independent. And mysteries themselves are all over the place. On the one hand you get nice aliens and whatnot. On the other you get retarded military drones that don’t do shit and 3WW that can only block trade with Earth without any real effect on the gameplay after first 50 sols.

Finally the game tends to freeze randomly. I’ve also had random crashes. Usual Unity shit, yes. But developers have managed to upgrade unity's retardedness to the next level by fucking up the game several times with patches.

tl;dr the game is a typical Paradox shovelware: the idea is great, but the game is buggy and unbalanced, it’s design is sloppy, midgame and lategame are non-existent. Regretfully, it has no prospect of being patched through the years like Stellaris. Unlike Stellaris SM at least has a limited scope that could have brought us a decent game if developers themselves were decent.
 

Zer0wing

Cipher
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
2,607
>biggest funds and best starting conditions are provided by NASA and Space Y
>worst starting conditions with limited fund and rocket supply are with Russia
>implying west still can go this far into space
El-Risitas-1.jpg
 

Space Satan

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No idea but trading with rival colonies and stuff at least loks good. Not that it will make game more appealing thou
 

Space Satan

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It seems they are going to release some news on upcoming plans on 15th. Most probably about mods they are going to intgrate in the game but they mentioned that some big expansion is going to be released in 2019
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Paradox launches platform-independent modding platform, Paradox Mods, with Surviving Mars, so the official mod integration will be no longer exclusive to Steam but also supported on GOG and consoles (Xbox only for now): https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/...ependent-modding-platform-on-xbox-one-and-pc/



Paradox Interactive Joins Forces with Microsoft to Launch Paradox Mods, a new Independent Modding Platform, on Xbox One and PC
Starting with Surviving Mars, Xbox One and PC gamers can download and play more than 30 mods across platforms with support for more Paradox titles coming later this year

STOCKHOLM – February 20, 2019 – Paradox Interactive announced today that it has joined forces with Microsoft to bring Paradox Mods, the first-ever open modding platform that enables distribution of user-created game modifications (mods) across multiple platforms, to Xbox One and is now available as a free update to survival-strategy game Surviving Mars. With Paradox Mods, mod creators can easily share their work with players on Xbox One and PC (using GoG or the Paradox Launcher) with a single upload. While Surviving Mars is the first to utilize Paradox Mods, support for other Paradox titles is planned to come later this year. Check out what’s available on Paradox Mods here: https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/

For Players:

Launching with over 30 mods tested and ready for console players for Surviving Mars, Paradox Mods includes projects from recognized creators within the modding community such as Silva and ChoGGi. Players now have even more ways to enjoy the survival strategy sim whether it’s adding a self-sufficient Forest Greenhouse or building a Martian Car Wash. Simply log into your Paradox Account from the Surviving Mars title screen, open the “Mod Manager” at the bottom of the screen to browse the mods catalogue, then select mods that you want to play and the game will automatically download and add them to your playing experience.

For Modders:

Paradox Mods is the first direct pipeline modders have to publish their work on consoles. Featuring in-game and web interfaces that enable easy distribution, Paradox Mods allows mod creators to submit their creation once and have it made available on every platform — no extra steps required.

“Modding has been, and remains an important part of the Paradox community. As we have diversified the way we distribute our games, we want to make sure all our players can take part in the creation process,” said Anders Törlind, Product Owner for Paradox Mods. “For Surviving Mars, we have worked with mod creators to support Paradox Mods with some of the best mods available, all in one place and downloadable in-game or simply using a web browser. We really look forward to unlocking the world of modding for all members of our community, regardless of what system they are using to play our games.”

In addition to Paradox Mods, this update adds mouse and keyboard support for Surviving Mars on Xbox One. This means console players can point and click their way across the red planet and establish their very own dome-based society with any controls they prefer.

To find out more about Surviving Mars, take a look here for upcoming news and community activities: www.survivingmars.com/

Business interview: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ive-breaks-new-ground-for-modding-on-consoles

Yet another effort from Paradox to be less dependent on Steam.
 
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GrainWetski

Arcane
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,097
So they're trying to kill modding and their own company? Good for them.

Let's see how quick their demise will be with a console focus. Can they manage 10 years before they're long forgotten?
 

thesheeep

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Modding being independent from a store actually makes a lot of sense, or we wouldn't have sites like Nexus and mod managers for specific games.
Sure, it is nice to be able to just use the Steam workshop, but it is obviously problematic since you are also subject to all its problems - honestly, like most of the Steam client, the workshop just isn't that good and lacks lots of features (compared to actual modding platform capabilities).
 

Hellraiser

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Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
Seems new DLC is around the corner
The work on the second expansion is almost done.

I am wondering what it will be, the last one needed more meat (speaking of meat, this game could use ranching or fish farms) but was otherwise incline despite not so much new content. I like trading the most since it gives you more flexibility, sponsor unique buildings/vehicles are also nice, although mostly the buildings. Same goes for sponsor goals.

Probably no new sponsors unless they start scrapping the bottom of the barrel Firaxis style. Although then maybe we could add Poland...

The only thing that comes to my mind other than more events and making the colonists more complex, is sending rockets to Phobos/Deimos and orbital construction.

Colonizing something other than Mars is unlikely, Surviving Titan would be an awesome idea, but that would be better for a proper standalone game rather than paradox DLC milking.
 

Space Satan

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I always ignore colonists completely. Just pile them up, most will educate locally to get needed profession. Simply go to rocket, uncheck "Elder age" and "other" in gender to weed out degenerades and send them to Mars
 

Space Satan

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New DLC

Terraforming
Terraform Mars and make the hostile planet habitable for humanity. Each decision you make while managing your colony can affect the Terraforming Parameters, which include the Atmosphere, Temperature, Water, and Vegetation, and ideally brings them closer to habitable levels. Monitor your progress on a planetary scale with the Planetary Overview UI.
Green Mars
Seed the surface of Mars with various lichen, grass, shrubs, or trees and watch as they begin to turn the Red Planet green. Low maintenance plants like Lichen can improve the soil quality to help more complex plants grow while Trees produce high seed yields for your colony to harvest. Be sure to monitor your soil quality levels to keep your plants healthy and growing.
Special Projects
Take on seven challenging Special Projects like melting the polar caps, capturing ice asteroids, launching a space mirror, and more to begin shifting the Terraforming Parameters. Be careful, these projects will have a lasting impact on the planet and can trigger natural disasters!
7 New Wonders of Mars
Construct seven new buildings that can help you terraform the planet or capitalize on the changes. Use the GHG factory to release greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere, the Forestation Plant to boost vegetation production, the Water Pump to fill lake bed, and more.
Climate Calamities
Terraforming a planet can have unexpected consequences. If you release too many greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere you can trigger acid rain which reduces soil quality, or if an asteroid slams into the planet it will cause a Marsquake that can disrupt your colony’s production.
 

thesheeep

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What I wonder is why they don't do something about the first 10-15 hours of a colony.
They are always the same, no matter where you are...

My first colony died because I didn't know the game. My second colony died to the mystery (Wildfire as first ever mystery, thank you very much...), but on the third, after about five hours, I was already burned out as I just repeated steps that worked well the second time around.
 

thesheeep

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I think they intended to make variation based on colony location. So no resources will be generic
Yes, and it also changes the frequency of "bad things" to happen. But that only increases/decreases challenge (later on, especially), it does nothing to increase variety, nothing to change how you play the first hours.
All starts I tried were in vastly different locations, resource-wise, but the start always had enough water and minerals. I think the game wouldn't even work otherwise due to how limited trade is early on.
 
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Space Satan

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Terraforming
Hi everyone!

My name is Ivan Grozev and I've been working as a game designer at Haemimont Games for more than six years now. I've been fan of Paradox Interactive's games for decades. I've enjoyed thousands of hours of Europa Universalis and Crusaders Kings, always striving to achieve the next world conquest, and I've always loved large scale, long-term games. There's a saying in the design team that we've made a game especially for me. Frankly, I've loved working on Surviving Mars since the start and I'm excited with my current position as the Lead Game Designer for this project.

index.php


Today, I have the honor to briefly introduce to you the second expansion of Surviving Mars, Green Planet.

So, how did it all start? The inevitable truth that surviving Mars' barren deserts would eventually lead to humanity changing the Red Planet has stuck with us since we started working on Surviving Mars over 2 years ago. Back then, we didn't know what the future of Mars would look like, but we did envision that one day we would add terraforming. The growing desire for more late game content among our fans made this vision more and more appealing, as terraforming an entire planet would be a gradual and painstaking process. Believe me, we strived to make it challenging but worthwhile!

In Green Planet, you'll be able to fully transform the Martian surface. Starting with endless, barren deserts and leading to frozen ice caps and fields of lichen, and finally ending with a planet covered with lush green forests and oceans. You'll be able to plant different types of vegetation all across your colony, dig artificial lakes and fill them with water that freezes or evaporates according to the average global temperature, decrease the severity of dust storms as atmosphere improves and watch Moisture Vaporators produce more because of oceans evaporating water into the atmosphere.

In order to do so, you need to achieve progress on four major terraforming parameters: Atmosphere, Temperature, Water, and Vegetation.

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The Atmosphere parameter symbolizes the density and the content of the Martian atmosphere. At 100% Atmosphere terraforming progress, Mars has an Earth-like atmosphere and deep blue skies, capable of sustaining human breathing without artificial aid. There are several ways to improve this parameter, varying from mass production of greenhouse gases to melting the polar ice caps. Initially, it's easy to improve the atmosphere; however, its raising density means that more and more gases are lost due to Mars’ lack of a strong magnetic field. To continue the process, the need for magnetic shields in orbit and massive magnetic generators arises.

The Temperature parameter symbolizes the average planetary temperature. It's necessary for liquid water to exist on the surface of Mars and for more advanced plant life to survive the extreme Martian conditions. The increasing temperature creates conditions for the polar ice caps to melt and changes the existing ice fields into blue lakes, seas, and oceans. Higher average temperature also means that cold waves are shorter and less likely to occur.

The Water parameter symbolizes the amount of water accumulated in the atmosphere and in water bodies on the surface of the planet. Water is a major ingredient in the making of acidic and pure-water rains. It directly affects the output of Moisture Vaporators and is required for more advanced plant life to grow and spread.

The Vegetation parameter symbolizes the sustainability of plant life on the planet. Initially, plant life consists of adapted cyanobacteria and lichen but it will eventually form huge, continent-wide forests. This parameter directly affects the spreading of plants around your colony. On one side, it increases the likelihood that locally seeded plants will spread on their own. On the other side, it guarantees that, over time, seeds carried by the wind will grow in various locations on the map.

index.php


You're probably asking yourselves "How could I achieve all that?". You'll notice that Green Planet has added a new technology field, Terraforming, in your Research UI. The 20 new techs there are harder to research but will allow you to start terraforming whenever you feel ready for the challenge. To begin, just unlock the first building in the tech tree. You achieve terraforming progress by constructing and maintaining terraforming-related buildings, or by completing dedicated terraforming projects such as sending rockets to capture ice asteroids. We're going to talk more about these in the following dev diaries.

Speaking of which, next week on Thursday we’ll have another dev diary all about the new buildings and wonders coming in Green Planet.

Ivan Grozev
Lead Designer of Green Planet
Haemimont Games
 

Burning Bridges

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Seems new DLC is around the corner
The work on the second expansion is almost done.

I am wondering what it will be, the last one needed more meat (speaking of meat, this game could use ranching or fish farms) but was otherwise incline despite not so much new content. I like trading the most since it gives you more flexibility, sponsor unique buildings/vehicles are also nice, although mostly the buildings. Same goes for sponsor goals.

Probably no new sponsors unless they start scrapping the bottom of the barrel Firaxis style. Although then maybe we could add Poland...

The only thing that comes to my mind other than more events and making the colonists more complex, is sending rockets to Phobos/Deimos and orbital construction.

Colonizing something other than Mars is unlikely, Surviving Titan would be an awesome idea, but that would be better for a proper standalone game rather than paradox DLC milking.

Depends on what you mean with colonizing. I would say it's certain that the first small colony will be on the Moon and perhaps withing this century. Then probably the same on Mars. But no more than a few people, maybe just like a space station.

Titan colonization has always intrigued me, if you could pull it off and heat up the athmosphere it is theoretically possible to turn it into a mini Earth. It is basically a small Earth at -200C. But it is not clear how to do that with a planet which is in a deep freeze for the next 3 billion years. It's a massive task as long as we cannot turn temperatures on Earth by lets say half a degree.

Unfortunately none of the other bodies in our solar system has an athmosphere that is of any use to us, and most are downright dangerous. Somebody who lived on the surface of Mars would die after a couple of years from radiation and sooner or later be hit by a micrometeorite. The real colonies will have to be underground.

For that there are many better places than Mars, for example Europa. If the predicted ocean is actually real, people can live underwater just like on Earth, only with lower gravity. They are also remarkably safe there. There are at least half a dozen other moons which probably have similar subsurface H2O oceans, among them several which are considerably big, like Ganymede, Callisto, Triton and Pluto. And this is a whole family of objects which could be colonized at a very low risk, and where colonies would make a lot of sense. If Mars has a liquid water reservoir, and it does not look bad for this at the moment, perhaps even on Mars the people could live underwater.

Btw Mercury has the best long term prospect for a proper colony, because it has everything else. It has water, less water than Mars or Europa but 20-100 times more energy and rare elements (the metal content is incredible). Mars is much more interesting because there is so much more research so in the end they will go with Mars, but from an economical point of view, Mercury is perfect.
 

Space Satan

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I must confess, even if game is mediocre, I always had a soft spot for the Red Planet and terraforming fascinates me.
DD new buildings
Hi everyone!

Last time we talked about the terraforming process and what it means to turn the Red Planet Green, today we’ll take a look at two new tools to achieve this tremendous goal:

Terraforming Research and New Buildings

In Green Planet we’ve added 7 new buildings, which are dedicated to the terraforming efforts. Some of these buildings require specific planetary conditions to function properly. Three of these buildings appear much later in game and require significant research progress to even become available! They have the spatial dimensions and the construction costs of wonders but may be constructed more than once. There’s this rewarding feeling when you cover an area with huge smoking chimneys, knowing that you’re changing the planet on a large scale.

index.php


The terraforming buildings will be added to a new category of the build menu – Terraforming. Players are in complete control of when they choose to start the terraforming progress by deciding when to research the first tech in the chain. Every step in the chain unlocks new buildings and improvements which will help in your mission to terraform Mars.


Here’s the list of the buildings you will find inside:

The Forestation Plant (or the Sprinkler, as I love to call it) spreads seeds imported from Earth, or produced on Mars, to plant wild vegetation in its range. Initially, it plants only lichen, but later grass, bushes, and trees become available as the terraforming project progresses. As some of the seeds get carried away from the colony by the winds, each Forestation Plant helps for the increase of the global vegetation.

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The GHG Factory (short for Greenhouse Gas) burns a mixture of fuel and locally extracted carbon to produce greenhouse gases, which are released into the atmosphere. Thus increasing the average temperature of the planet.

index.php


Similar to the GHG Factory, the Carbonate Processor converts waste rock into carbon dioxide. The release of CO2 in the atmosphere improves its density and creates the necessary circumstances for oxygen-producing bacteria to thrive and for rains to occur.

The Core Heat Convector is a system of pipes that go deep into the Martian crust. It uses water to transport heat from the planetary core and improves the atmospheric temperature, while heating its immediate surroundings.

index.php


The Magnetic Field Generator improves the magnetic field of the planet, decreasing the loss of atmospheric gasses. It has a secondary function as a science facility and generates research according to the current state of the atmosphere. As a side effect of the strong magnetic field, the MFG may trigger “marsquakes” in its immediate vicinity. So take care to place these far away from the heart of your colony.

There are several different sizes of lakes, each having different forms. Lake beds are dug up by drones and then gradually filled with water. If liquid water is not yet possible on Mars, the lake remains frozen. When the conditions allow for it, the water liquefies and the lakes start to gradually improve the global water levels through evaporation.

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The Open Farm is a huge unmanned facility which grows various edible plants away from your domes. This open-air farm spreads a mixture of water and seeds, which grow or wither according to the local soil quality and the overall terraforming progress. Once fully-grown, plants are individually harvested by drones for food.

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All terraforming buildings are unmanned and can be built as soon as you research their corresponding tech in the Terraforming field of the research UI. For those of you who intend to terraform Mars before sending the founders of the colony, we added one additional building, the Capital City.

The Capital City requires the atmosphere of Mars to be breathable and warm. It’s the most spacious dome design and it doesn’t have a cupola, or metallic frame. Instead, it’s surrounded by trees, doesn’t consume Oxygen and can be placed on rough terrain.

index.php


I’ll be looking forward to your screenshots!
 

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