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Sword of the Stars 2: Electric Boogaloo

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Zarniwoop, Oct 4, 2011.

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Will Sword of the Stars II be significantly different from the first one?

  1. More of the same

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Significantly different, better

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  3. Significantly different, worse

    7 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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    So...who fucked up ? Kerberos, Kerberos's financial accountant, Paradox or Valve ? I'm still unsure what to think of this whole mess. Everyone's contradicting everyone.
     
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  2. Raapys Arcane

    Raapys
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    Has there ever been any 4x game not rushed out too soon and filled with bugs and unfinished stuff? MoO1&2 and maybe IG2 are the exceptions I can think of, but even those had their problems despite being playable.

    MoO3, SpaceEmpires, DistantWorlds, Ascendancy, Pax, etc., had game-breaking bugs, horrible AI and/or a largely unfinished feature set. Seems to be the norm in this genre( and now every genre).
     
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  3. CrimsonAngel Prophet

    CrimsonAngel
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    Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    It is not a bad game.
    I kind of like it and if they fixed the UI, the bugs and crashes and a few control issues it would be pretty good.
     
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  4. Korgan Arbiter

    Korgan
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    Wait, what the fuck, doesn't this work on WinXP?!
     
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  5. Rina Scholar

    Rina
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    Nope, needs DX10. Not sure who thought that was a good idea. :roll:
     
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  6. WhiskeyWolf RPG Codex Polish Car Thief Patron

    WhiskeyWolf
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    It's needs fucking what? I have a proper card but the fuck?
     
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  7. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    LOL I demand that this game work with DOS 5.0 or no buy!!!!

    Come on, bitching about an ancient OS that needs to be held together with duct tape to even work, not being supported anymore is a bit lame even for the Codex.
     
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  8. MetalCraze Arcane

    MetalCraze
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    So for 10 years XP didn't need any duct tape to normally work but then retarded sheep Zarniwoop heard about the new cool M$ OS and suddenly XP is a broken mess
     
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  9. Korgan Arbiter

    Korgan
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    While 90% of all games released continue to support XP and a lot of great older stuff works poorly with 7, I'm not going to switch my OS. Case closed.
     
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  10. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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    Actually, there's a 99% chance that if it works on xp it will work on win7 too.
     
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  11. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    XP, just like any OS, needs more and more patches/service packs/crap as time goes on. XP was the greatest Windows ever when it came out, but that was loooong ago. By the time SP2 came out it was already a broken mess, and I was already keen to get the next version, which actually just works. Progress is actually good, you know. The thing that makes it bad in games is that they remove things that made the old version good. With Windows, that's not the case. Windows 7 does everything XP does, only it's much faster and prettier.

    Being edgy about Vista is fine, that was really a piece of shit, but Windows 7 fixed pretty much everything that was wrong with it. If you keep sticking with old tech just to be lolnonconformisthipster, you're just holding back progress and end up with for example games being designed to work on 6 year old laptop hardware, like the fagbox 360, and all the fagbox ports that we end up with as a result.

    Marobug: I'm sure it's more than 99%. I've never found anything so far that works with XP but not 7. Unless you mean some old 16 bit installers, but those don't work on 64bit XP either, so it's more a question of 32 vs 64 bit than XP vs 7.
     
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  12. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
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    Fixed.
     
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  13. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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    So, you do think sots's strategic layer is complex ? :lol:
    I recommend you check out other4x games then. Even Civ5 is twice as complex as sots.
     
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  14. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
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    Truth by assertion wins it every single damned time.

    You're also presenting a strawman.

    Fag.
     
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  15. Ruprekt Scholar

    Ruprekt
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    He's given you a precisely quantified answer: Twice Civ V.

    That's a neoclassical level of proof.
     
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  16. Zomg Arbiter

    Zomg
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    How did you make the transition from single-player to PvP TBS games? Was it a particular game? I end up liking 4x games that are complex but gameplay-retarded toys like MoM because I never transitioned to multiplayer. The only PvP strategy stuff in TBS games I ever noticed seemed to completely deform the game into denuded mechanics that would make all the effort they put into the empire-building narrative useless fluff, like infinite-city-sprawl strategies in old Civ games.
     
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  17. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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    Funny way to turn around the discussion but no.
    So, my dear sots fanboy, is sword of the stars a complex game by 4x/grand strategy game standards ?

    ninja edit: inb4 ad hominem
     
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  18. The Dude Liturgist

    The Dude
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    Seen as a pure wargame, SotS strategic layer is a lot more complex than most 4x. As a diplomatic game, not so much, as a management game, even less so. To each his own.

    As for you opinion when it comes to the complexity of SotS 2, I give your trolling efforts 4/10, since you actually managed to troll out a "fag".

    You seem to like asking questions, you like answering them too? What is complexity for you?
     
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  19. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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    Jeez now that kerberos's forum is down they all decided to come in packs to the codex now ?

    Anyways, complexity, depth whatever you want to call it. If you want a definition I can google it for you.

    Sots is not a "pure wargame" so I fail to see how it can be more complex than most 4x. When you put all the aspects of a standard 4x game together (which ahem include diplomacy and empire management), calling sots a complex game is the equivalent of calling oblivion an intelligent rpg.
     
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  20. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
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    Colonization, Civ 4, Dominions 3, Battle for Wesnoth, and SotS are the ones I play multiplayer the most. I think from about the time I was 16 or so, I've typically defaulted to the idea that 'multiplayer is better' regarding strategy games. Particularly because I felt that playing against a computer encouraged a poor understanding and application of the mechanics underlying the representation.

    I think it was probably Magic the Gathering that really turned me on to the idea of beating people through rules gaming. I recall being really butthurt the first time that I witnessed how the stack worked in MtG. I tapped my Prodigal Sorcerer to kill another player's Prodigal Sorcerer. So, of course, he tapped in response and his hit first. It was really the dumbest thing that I could imagine, but after watching several high-skill level players manipulating these rules, I became pretty much a-okay with this approach to gaming.

    And so it carried over to turn based tabletop wargames and computer strategy titles. I guess all things said, it really does require a sort of ignorance of what's being represented in favor of the numbers behind what's being represented to enjoy TBS games. I look at it from a purely competitive standpoint. It just feels good to beat people imo.

    Though I gotta say, I just so happen to like the first SotS because I feel that the symbols representing the numbers make a lot of sense(BTW, Colonization is very good about this as well). You don't really win on the tactical level by doing cheesy shit so much as you win by knowing what weapons do what and how to use them properly.

    That said, there is still some cheese behind economic management in SotS. However, since you are just balancing research spending vs savings, there's not a lot of cognitive dissonance like there can be in other strategy games.
    It depends on how we're quantifying 'complexity.' It doesn't feature the breadth that most 4x/grand strategy games do in that it doesn't have the sheer number of features. However, there is a great level of depth to the variety of ways you can manipulate the few features that exist.

    Obviously SotS isn't as good as Go or Chess, but those aren't exactly 'complex' games when looking at the breadth of features either. Yet, people manage to develop ever increasingly complex strategies for playing the game in spite of the extremely simple mechanics.
     
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  21. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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    The same also happens in most (decent) 4x games, except usually they have more features.

    Go and chess are in a completely different league from sots and even many other 4x games. These games are simple only in appearance and rules, they are actually very complex. Sots in the other hand looks completely bland at first, and even when you know more about it it never actually gets complex. It just doesn't allow for the same amount of strategies or offers as many challenges as most 4x games would, simply because diplomacy, empire management, intelligence and other important sectors in a 4x game are non-existent or close to in sots.
     
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  22. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
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    Yeah-huh they exist!
     
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  23. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
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  24. The Dude Liturgist

    The Dude
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    No, it's not a pure wargame. But the focus, from the beginning, was on the warmaking rather than the other parts. The design philosophy has always been stated to be that if something can't be shot up and destroyed in the tactical combat part, then it shouldn't be in the game, or abstracted to a large degree. If you can't agree that it does this part better than most other 4x (preferably with examples of 4x games doing it better), both on the tactical and strategic layer, I really have a hard time to see where you are coming from. This coupled with probably the best research implementation in any 4x, and the races playing so different is what makes it an excellent, and fairly complex, game.

    Also, the diplomacy system isn't worse than most 4x games, maybe a little contrived since it uses icons that you script diplomatic messages from. You can do most of the things you'd expect, such as treaties, alliances, intelligence sharing, tributes, joint attacks and stuff like that. It does help to read the racial fluff though, if you want to "get" the personalities of the different races, sadly it's not in-game info, but in the documentation. You can even do some neat tricks like making a weaker opponent fold to you by just sharing your system info, since the AI isn't omniscient and if it has only scouted your frontier worlds, that's all it thinks you have.

    Seriously, sometimes I get the impression you opened up the game, played around for an hour or two, and then discounted it because you can't build farms and crap on planets.

    As for Oblivion, no, it's not an intelligent game. But as a counter example, let's take TOEE. It's total crap in many areas, but the combat is absolutely glorious, in fact so good that the combat alone makes the game worth playing. Does that make TOEE a banalshitboring RPG?
     
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  25. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
    Joined:
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    Word.
     
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