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Sword of the Stars 2: Electric Boogaloo

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Zarniwoop, Oct 4, 2011.

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Will Sword of the Stars II be significantly different from the first one?

  1. More of the same

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Significantly different, better

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  3. Significantly different, worse

    7 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Shuma Scholar

    Shuma
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
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    Uh, not to derail the fun-train here, but the statement about Magic mechanics is totally wrong. Either the people you were playing against misunderstood how the stack actually works, or they conned you into believing something to gain a tiny temporary advantage.

    Once you pay a cost in Magic, that effect happens even if the source of the effect is removed (not true for the target of the effect. In that case, it "fizzles"). So big deal, his effect happens first and he kills your Tim. Your ability STILL FIRES and you kill his (or whatever else you were shooting at, as long as it wasn't the Tim itself, then it would fizzle.

    I know I'm totally missing the point of what you were saying, but uhh, well let's just say I know the rules of Magic pretty well.
     
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  2. Marobug Newbie

    Marobug
    Joined:
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    Wat. Since the beginning I've been criticizing sots as a 4x game, not as a wargame. When it comes to war/combat it might be more complex than most but it's lacking in everything else, or at least almost everything else. All components put together no one can say it's a complex game by 4x standards.
    And how is sots's research implementation better than any 4x game ? Races playing different is a common feature in most 4x games. In some you can even create your own up. Even if sots did these things better than any other, it wouldn't automatically make it a complex game.

    As for the diplomacy, I recommend you trying an actual 4x game and compare. Space empires, Galciv, civ, armada, hell even distant worlds. These were the first 4x games that came to mind and they all have a better (or more complex if you will) diplomacy component.
    Shit my cover was blown. No seriously I don't think I spoke on planet management yet but it's also good to be reminded how bland it is as well.
     
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  3. Raapys Arcane

    Raapys
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    What exactly is so good about the war-stuff in it anyway? I'm pretty sure both MoO and SpaceEmpires have more tactical weapons, systems and defenses. Is it the artificial ship limit in combat and fixed ship roles that people get all excited over?

    Don't get me wrong, I thought the combat was fine. But it's not as if it really did anything particularly great.
     
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  4. MetalCraze Arcane

    MetalCraze
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    I was hoping for the random galaxy generator :<
     
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  5. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
    Joined:
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    I simply recalled 'first in-last out' wrong, we're referring to something that happened 12 years ago. You're right, both of our tim's died. I had just forgotten that the damage 'floats around' on the stack' in the moment I was telling that story. I still thought it was stupid that even though I acted first my card got removed at the same time. Then again, I was 13 or some shit.

    There isn't even a stack anymore is there?
    I would say that for me, it's the vast number of ways that you can manage your battleplan. It's kind of hard to explain in concrete terms w/o getting long-winded, but what the fuck I'll get long-winded.

    For instance, a common strategy in the early game is to put a weapon called an 'emitter' on a destroyer class ship. Emitters do a pretty good amount of damage vs hulls, never miss, and have an extremely short range. Their fire rate is not impressive but not slow as Christmas either. What's cool about that is that not only do they work well for their intended function of close-range brawling, but they actually make a decent auxillary point defense due to the fact that they never miss, and if you have a full array of emitters on a DE, there will only be a very small span where it's not able to fire on incoming weapons. So, the emitter is an extremely good early game weapon in spite of it's humble stats on paper.

    Beyond the fact that there is a nice 'backdoor use' for almost every weapon in the game like that, you have the way that different weapon systems interact with each other. The complex ordnance launchers in particular allow you to really direct the way that the battle turns out, and really force your opponent to come up with good ideas to get things on their terms.

    One of my very favorite strategies is to run two point defense hard-points on every droneship destroyer, then give them a UV beamer as a main weapon . Then two COLs(which also double as point defense cruisers), two heavy laser cruisers running no point defense at all, and a flagship(usually a shielded missile cruiser outfitted with corrosive missiles(if I had the RNG that let me research them at least) on the big hardpoints). Now, from the very get-go, this gives me a lot of drones that are immediately harassing the enemy and pushing them toward me. At the same time I'm going to be deploying mines remotely with the COLs, but the key is that I'll deploy them close enough that I can shoot past them with heavy combat lasers, which have a narrow line of fire, long range, extremely slow firing rate, and pretty much unbeatable damage. Using a strategy like this obviously helps you mitigate those disadvantages by forcing the enemy player to take big damage through the minefield or work their way around and get hit by the HCL several times, which is usually even worse.

    Essnetially, what I am getting at by that example, is that there is a pretty sophisticated game of measures and countermeasures that come up. You also aren't looking at the individual stats of any particular weapon so much as you are looking at how those weapons will serve in a fleet. I think this gives the game an almost endless level of playability if you have a few friends who have the time to sit around and play it with you. Things are always a little different every game, and everybody tries to stay one step ahead of what they think you are going to do as a result of what happened last time.
     
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  6. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    Doesn't it really suck waiting for other people to finish tactical battles with the AI or each other? I guess if you have a TV show or something you can watch in between, but long waits break the flow of gaming I find.
     
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  7. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
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    4,946
    Turns are handled simultaneously and I personally don't play with computer players in a multiplayer game at all.

    Tactical battle length is adjustable from 120 seconds to 600 seconds. This not only works to keep time short but allows battles to transpire over several turns, allowing for a meaningful use of reinforcements, skirmishing, and distraction.
     
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  8. Raapys Arcane

    Raapys
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
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    Well, your example paints a pretty picture, one I didn't see much of since my experience is limited to rather straight-forward AI fights. But while I won't argue with your assessment, is it really unique as far as 4x games go? Look at the options in SpaceEmpires4&5's combat; you can use mines, missiles, torpedoes, beams, projectiles, fighters, drones, satellites, boarding-parties, engine-slowing, shield-depleting, etc. You can have different kinds of shielding and armor, improved engines, sensors, AI, etc. Much of that goes for the MoO games too.

    It just seems to me that the things you like about it are things that some other 4x games do at least as well, while still having a significantly better strategic/diplomatic/empire management part.
     
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  9. Dirk Diggler Scholar

    Dirk Diggler
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
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    I haven't played Space Empires so I'll have to reserve judgment there.

    As I said earlier, if you are comparing stuff to MoO 2, you'll often end up disappointed. That said, SotS isn't a bad game because MoO is a really good one.
     
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  10. Syril Liturgist Queued

    Syril
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    So does this work on windows xp?
     
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  11. tindrli Arcane

    tindrli
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    Sadly it does not work on mine xp. It says something like missing. Some shity dx10 dll or similar..
     
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  12. Harpsichord Arcane

    Harpsichord
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    The game is now playable and I must say, vastly different from SotS 1.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
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  13. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Why do they have directX10 as a fucking REQUIREMENT for a fucking 4X STRATEGY GAME

    :retarded:
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
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  14. tindrli Arcane

    tindrli
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    a million dollar question Mr. Jarl....:deadhorse:
     
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  15. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Jul 16, 2009
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    Because they are not using OpenGL.
     
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  16. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
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    The stack is the very basis for a game of Magic. The whole game would have to be re-invented without it - like giving every abiliy Split Second or something. So nah, it's still there. What you're referring to is probably when they changed the rules so that combat damage no longer uses the stack.
     
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  17. Harpsichord Arcane

    Harpsichord
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    Okay, yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
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  18. Chef_Hathaway King of the Juice Patron White Knight

    Chef_Hathaway
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Dicksville
    Divinity: Original Sin BattleTech
    I want to like it, but there is so much time bloat in giving orders and other small things that it really turns me off from playing it for too long, and that you can't do things between turns like in SotS1, like check on research and design new ships is also really annoying. I'm talking about multiplayer, btw, I guess in singleplayer those don't matter that much. It still feels like the game progresses far more slowly compared to the first.
     
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  19. Syril Liturgist Queued

    Syril
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
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    1,385
    bros how is swos 2 now ? still bugged?
     
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  20. Humppaleka Arbiter

    Humppaleka
    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    860
    Anyone played this recently? Bought the Paradox pack from Amazon and this is something I really looked forward to, but it was a buggy mess as usual for a long time. I liked SotS 1 a lot, I hope this lives up to it at all.
     
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  21. Malakal Arcane

    Malakal
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    I read its not finished yet. Not as buggy as it used to be but still hardly playable.
     
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  22. commie The Last Marxist Patron

    commie
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Still 736 patches to go...
     
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  23. Malakal Arcane

    Malakal
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    The general consensus seems to be its almost as good as 1 right now. Almost.
     
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  24. Chef_Hathaway King of the Juice Patron White Knight

    Chef_Hathaway
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    Divinity: Original Sin BattleTech
    How?

    I can't see it being as good as 1 until they unfuck the time bloat from going through menus, assigning movement orders, assigning research, etc., etc.

    Seriously, why did they have to change the movement system from number one? It has mission types and stuff as well, but I didn't have go through an asinine and slow menu to move my boats.
     
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  25. Chef_Hathaway King of the Juice Patron White Knight

    Chef_Hathaway
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
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    Location:
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    Divinity: Original Sin BattleTech
    So, it's getting closer to being completely playable. Bloat is still there, as the menus still sometime stick for an unreasonable amount of time, but the crashes and bugs have mostly been worked out.

    Maybe at the one year mark it will truly be ready.
     
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