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Tell me about Platinum Games.

Sjukob

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InSight
Great point about animation lock, I too thought that forcing it only hampers the player and gameplay in general. Now that I think about it, they've made it work very well in Bayonetta, none of your attacks lock you up by default, but you can choose to commit to them to deal bigger damage, and if you decide to do it the animation can still be cancelled at any point. And some of your most damaging attacks are combo enders, which again requires commitment, but then they introduced "dodge offset" mechanic that allows you to keep your combos going without dropping them even if you dodge.

As for Max Payne, you know, aside from slow-mo which was innovative at the time, the game doesn't do anything extraordinary. What's cool about it is that the weapons are not hitscan and bullets are actual projectiles that just travel very fast, of course, activating slow-mo allows you to actually dodge them. Once you give it a go it might seem very simple, but you will be hard struck to find anything of the comparable quality. There's Vanquish, which I haven't tried yet, then there's F.E.A.R. which kind of similar, but it's in first person and then there's.... uuhh.
 

InSight

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Max Payne, you know, aside from slow-mo which was innovative at the time, the game doesn't do anything extraordinary.
  • slow-mo which was innovative at the time.
  • game doesn't do anything extraordinary.
You have written a contradiction. What is not extra-ordinary (outside the norm) in introducing/being the 1st to include slow motion among video games?
That is one extraordinary thing to contradict/negate the "doesnt do any-thing".
What would you deem extra-ordinary in games than?

extraordinary:going beyond what is usual, regular, or customary

I have not played Max Payne and still can deem/view/agree that it is extraordinary. And if that was extraordinary imagine how Vanquish would be. Different units, different bosses, different weapons and different stages (space station gravity or earlier stage on train where you are attacked form above as well as example comes to mind).
Although the mere mention of Vanquish excellence might hype/enlarge/balloon making it seem lesser to what one might expected. Not to valuated on base value. The remedy to that is to compare to other games before/after/around.
Different= as in more variety contrast to the indoors, corridors of what i would imagine Max Payne settings provided. Same applies to F.E.A.R. where it is in closed corridors, rooms indoors. Vanquish has more stages with open sky and far-sight view and more room to speed drive.


If you do play it on PC with keyboard & mouse, i recommend/suggest to play on hard and even to turn off the User Interface (yes you can play efficiently even without the aiming cursor with/without slow motion. exception is the sniper rifle). This should allow you to bath/immerse in the graphic/visual/animations and enjoy/notice better all the details that were worked to put in it. Even what grenades you have equipped is visible on the protagonist. The only Issue with turning off the UI is due quick time events. I have forgotten of their existence making me replay a segment over around 20 times due this and had to turn it back on as a result. Still continued to play it to completion. Take it as example of how good/varied/enjoyable the base/start of the game is.

but you will be hard struck to find anything of the comparable quality.
One can conclude/assume that allowing slow motion feature in games is a complex/difficult/extraordinary specially if it was not done before/ the info on how it is done was not shared. That is another explanation why it is Extra-ordinary.

F.E.A.R. too which i have played to completion is extra-ordinary on that factor alone aside the AI(a less noticeable)for being the 1st FPS(if not mistaken) to include slow motion/bullet time.
Based on the assumption First person shooter require higher/greater/more details(also better/stronger hardware) thus higher/greater/more coding/construction/designing capabilities ( thus it can be more difficult to combine the two.
 
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DJOGamer PT

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Is that they will not lock you into moves/animations, allow dodging midway of the action/attack. They do not restrict your control/actions to attack animations over the need for defense/avoiding getting hit. That is what i read and confirm the experience i have in game of that genre.
Great point about animation lock, I too thought that forcing it only hampers the player and gameplay in general.

You're comparing apples with oranges
The needs of brawlers like Nioh are completly different from the needs of brawlers like Bayonetta
Hence why the intensity of attack commitment, among many other mechanics, needs to be different as these games are trying to achieve different experiences with their combat systems
 

fork

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They were shit before FromSoft.
The mediocre gameplay was always unable to carry the terrible settings and level design.
 

Sjukob

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DJOGamer PT
Ultimately, I would prefer no animation lock up, no matter the combat system.

"I attacked at the wrong time, so I don't get to deal full damage or do no damage at all, because I cancelled the attack animation" seems way more fair to me than "I attacked at the wrong time, there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm forced to take damage because of that"
 

DJOGamer PT

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DJOGamer PT
Ultimately, I would prefer no animation lock up, no matter the combat system.

"I attacked at the wrong time, so I don't get to deal full damage or do no damage at all, because I cancelled the attack animation" seems way more fair to me than "I attacked at the wrong time, there's nothing I can do about it, so I'm forced to take damage because of that"

I have to disagree, because again I believe any well designed game is it's own experience even among other titles of the same sub-genre
And for these slower-paced paced, more "grounded" brawlers, I'll argue that a high level of attack commitment is the right design decision


For games like Bayo a frenetic pace to the action is the ideal the entire system is built around to attain
That's why the PC's in these games are always superhuman in abilities and figth hordes of baddies at once
The games are designed to make sure the player can face an overhelming amount of threats at once, because he will regularly have to
As a consequence it's gameplay mechanics have to be on the more twitch side of things, and that necessitates a low level of attack commitment


But for something like Nioh, Severance, etc... what they want to capture is the "danger" of battle, the tension
They don't want you to just jump in and start combo crafting like a mad man to some sick beat, they want to keep you on your toes and think 3 fucking times before you engage an enemy
That's why these games generally have Stamina systems and other forms of resource management, and some even have Character Stats
Mastery of these games systems is first and foremost about knowledge and good decision making, then comes the technical prowess
As such, bad decisions have to always be punished and that's why mechanics like high attack commitment make pratical sense

Plus since combo crafting and scoring are a big part of twich brawlers, cancelling attacks already works as a sort punishment as the player is deliberately "sabotaging" his performance
But these "grounded" brawlers have no such systems, therefore an attack cancelation mechanic doesn't punish the player in any way, and would significantly reduce the challenge of most encounters (specially when you also consider that enemy quantity in these games is far lower)
 
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DJOGamer PT

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Sjukob I think I'll have to take back my Ninja Gaiden recommendation
As despite being of same subgenre of brawlers as DMC, Bayo and God Hand, Ninja Gaiden is like the edgelord of the group
A curious one as it's gameplay is not interested in the player being "flashy" but rather "brutal", and the it's the only brawler of this group that has a high attack commitment
Even despite the fact that the game runs like DMC on turbo mode and has just as much enemies thrown in at the player, it still doesn't let him cancel most attacks
 

Sjukob

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DJOGamer PT
Good point and I don't disagree with you, although if you remember our talk about DMC series I complained about enemies having invulnerability modes, shields and similar things, because I didn't like how it took the control over the pace of combat from player's hands and gave it to the enemy. After playing Bayonetta I realised that attack commitment is the light weight mode of the same thing, it's what InSight pointed out. This might not be a big deal for other people, and it's far from being a dealbreaker for me, but I just it like when the game allows you set up a combat pace yourself without trying to stop you.

they want to keep you on your toes and think 3 fucking times before you engage an enemy
Don't know about Nioh, but from my experience Severance's gameplan is the usual "Get in and kill everyone" for the most part. A lot of your attacks, especially after you reach midgame, are incredibly strong and you can just do whatever without having to think much, this is especially true for the knight with the elf sword. The only enemies you have to respect are: Dal Gurak, final boss, vampires and those giant knights with tower shields. A lot of people seem to have troubles with vampires, but I personally I didn't find them that bad.

I won't play Ninja Gaiden until xbox emulator is developed enough. The PC port that they want to put on Steam looks like an abortion. The gameplay videos I've seen gave me an impression that it plays sort of like DMC1, where you mostly spam the same attack that is most effective against the enemy you face, looked fun to me. I enjoyed DMC1 I don't see why I wouldn't like Ninja Gaiden.
 

DJOGamer PT

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Good point and I don't disagree with you, although if you remember our talk about DMC series I complained about enemies having invulnerability modes, shields and similar things, because I didn't like how it took the control over the pace of combat from player's hands and gave it to the enemy. After playing Bayonetta I realised that attack commitment is the light weight mode of the same thing

Yes, attack commitment is essentially a form of restriction on the players control

But one thing I forgot to point out in my previous post is that this "handicap" doesn't apply solely on the player but the enemies as well
Which in the end I think it kinda mutually cancels the problems that can arise from a such a "restrictive" mechanic

While the other mechanics that restrict player control that you mentioned I believe happen because of bad design - either from an attempt by the devs to completely dictate the terms of engangement and force the player to essentially play his little "scripted" event; or simply to cover up some design failure in either the enemy's, the player's moveset or the level design
For attack commitment for me seems more of an intencional design decision, rather than an artificial one, to set up the pace and feel of the combat, throughout the entire game and as such is something the devs will always have in mind when designing the combat system and it's encounters


I mean when you think about it, most figthing games also have attack commitment for the reasons I've mentioned and no one considers it an unfair mechanic
Although this may be a bad example since not only are figthing games a different (despite being similiar and having influenced most brawlers, both 2D and 3D) and attack speed are generally faster than most people can react to, since figthing games give more importance to prediction rather than reaction like brawlers do


Don't know about Nioh, but from my experience Severance's gameplan is the usual "Get in and kill everyone" for the most part.

Yes, when compared to other "grounded" brawlers, Severance is on the more simple side and fails to execute aspects of this style of brawler that later games like Nioh succeed
But I attribute these failings to it's age, since the is as old as DMC1 and much like it a precursor to their type of experience
That's why I used it as an example, as the fundamentals are all there: high attack commitment; resource management to most aspects of the combat (such as Stamina meter); low enemy count, but high damage rates; character and weapon Stats; diverse playstyles


I won't play Ninja Gaiden until xbox emulator is developed enough.

The PS3 emulator is already in a very good condition
So you can play the Sigma version of NG1, wich is similiar to Black but with various quality of life improvements and some new content


I don't see why I wouldn't like Ninja Gaiden.

It was more like a head-ups, since you did say you don't enjoy high commitment combat systems
 

DJOGamer PT

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Honestly now that I think about it
2001 seems to 3D Brawlers what 1998 was to 3D Stealth games

Both had 3 major releases of the genre in the same year, both are the formative year of their genre and both seem to have had the same turn of events

One Sony exclusive title that was a smash hit, spanned a long-running beloved franchise that went on to inspire way too many games
One Western PC release that took the genre in a completly different and more "realistic" direction, but had little commercial success and is pretty much only know in hardcore PC circles
And another Sony console exclusive that was a bit of a mix between the other two approaches to genre, had enough success to spam a few other titles, that got progressively worse and eventually died in the 2000's
 

mogwaimon

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I won't play Ninja Gaiden until xbox emulator is developed enough.

The PS3 emulator is already in a very good condition
So you can play the Sigma version of NG1, wich is similiar to Black but with various quality of life improvements and some new content

that's the version of Ninja Gaiden that's supposed to be coming in the PC port though (well, technically I think the PC port has the Sigma Plus content from the Vita or whatever, but still) and I'm assuming he specifically wants to play Ninja Gaiden Black because he's heard it's better than Sigma.

which in some cases is true, some cases not. Really, as a newcomer to the series trying to dip their toes in, you really wouldn't feel too many of the differences. I can understand not wanting to spend the dough on a PC port which is pretty pozzed/lazy, but if you can try Sigma for free there's no real reason not to try it to see if you even like the gameplay while you're waiting for the Xbox emulation to get up to snuff. the only major thing that Sigma does that a new player might notice at once is the extra segments of gameplay with a side character and I think they censored the blood? but otherwise a new player likely wouldn't notice too much difference between Sigma and Black that it would put them off one way or another.
 

DJOGamer PT

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Sigma 1 and Black are the same in terms of difficulty
Sigma 1 has no cencorship to the gore, that's Sigma 2
The most significant changes are this: graphical overall, a brand new weapon for Ryu, you can figth Doku in chapter 2, some puzzle rooms are replaced with combat encounters, Rachel occasionally gets a chapter (3 in total), plus a shit-ton of QoL improvements:


9vzMLDD.png
 

Roguey

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https://www.videogameschronicle.com...iskier-games-and-hints-at-live-service-focus/

Company co-founder Atsushi Inaba, who recently took over as president and CEO, discussed his promotion in a recent interview with Famitsu (translated by VGC) along with his aspirations for the Bayonetta developer’s future.

In the interview, Inaba appeared to suggest a larger focus on live service games. He said he would like the company to create more games that “can be enjoyed and loved for a longer period of time”, compared to those in which players experience “one-off” content such as in Bayonetta.


And Kamiya’s Project GG was mentioned specifically by Inaba in relation to his desire to create titles “that are different from the past”.
...
"Project G.G. is still in the stage of testing various things, so I can’t tell you much about it, but when it comes to future game production, we want to focus on creating games that are different from the past. I would like to focus on creating games that can be enjoyed and loved for a longer period of time.”

He added: “Of course, we would like to cherish and create small but brilliantly conceived games such as Sol Cresta, and games in which you can enjoy the process of clearing the game by going through one-off, well-designed stages, such as Bayonetta.

“However, the projects that we are trying to create for the future will be different in terms of their structure. Considering the changes in the market over the next five years or so, I think it is absolutely necessary for us to do this. I’m sorry for being so vague, but I think that’s all I can tell you right now.”

It's over. :M
 

Hobo Elf

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The writing was on the wall when Tencent got involved with them. The only light at the end of the tunnel here is that none of the games that they made that I cared about (Bayonetta, Astral Chain) are not owned by Platinum so Nintendo can still have someone else develop the games, or maybe disgruntled Plat devs will leave the company and make their own so they can focus on fun action games. Now that would be pottery.
 
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karoliner

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https://www.videogameschronicle.com...n-offers-as-long-as-our-freedom-is-respected/
Platinum’s CEO says he wouldn’t dismiss acquisition offers ‘as long as our freedom is respected’
PRESIDENT ATSUSHI INABA THINKS ACTIVISION WILL BE AFFORDED AUTONOMY UNDER MICROSOFT

PlatinumGames’ CEO has suggested that the Bayonetta studio would be willing to entertain acquisition talks in the future, should its freedom be guaranteed.

Speaking to VGC following his recent promotion to president and CEO, Atsushi Inaba was asked about recent consolidation in the games industry, most significantly marked by Microsoft’s $70bn buyout of Activision Blizzard, and if Platinum would be open to offers.

Inaba responded by saying he’d be open to any possibility, as long as Platinum was afforded the kind of independence he expects Microsoft to offer Activision once its deal is completed.

“The most important thing for us is to have the freedom to make the games that we want to make,” he said. “What I hear about the recent acquisitions, I don’t think Microsoft is going to start micromanaging Activision to where they take away all their freedom… I don’t think it’s going to be a relationship like that.
“I think there’s going to be a lot of mutual respect there and I think Activision will be able to continue doing what they do best. That’s also what’s most important to us at the end of the day, whatever form that takes for us and our company. So I would not turn anything down, as long as our freedom was still respected.”

Inaba previously suggested that Platinum would not be interested in a sale to Microsoft – which has publicly stated its desire to add Japanese studio to its first-party roster – should such a theoretical arrangement limit its independence.

Platinum is one of Japan’s most prominent independent game developers, known for its enviable track record of creating original games such as Bayonetta, The Wonderful 101, Vanquish and Astral Chain, as well as high-profile collaborations on titles such as Metal Gear Rising, NieR Automata and Star Fox Zero.

In 2020, Platinum received investment from Chinese conglomerate Tencent (as did Activision Blizzard before the Microsoft deal).

M&A activity in the games industry hit a record $85 billion in 2021 and has been forecast to reach $150 billion this year, but the recent growth in M&A activity has seemingly yet to reach Japan.

The country’s developers have consolidated in the past – including Koei Tecmo, Bandai Namco, Sega Sammy and Square Enix – but we’re yet to see anything at the level of PlayStation’s $3.6bn purchase of Bungie, let alone Microsoft’s $70bn Activision deal.

Asked why Japan’s biggest companies don’t seem to consolidate as frequently as Western companies, Inaba said he was surprised there weren’t more mergers and acquisitions.

“I agree, you don’t see that a lot in Japan and personally, I think it’s weird,” he said. “For some of these big companies with all their money you sometimes think, ‘come on! Buy some companies up already!’ It does feel strange to see Japanese companies being passive all of the time.”

Japan-based analyst Dr. Serkan Toto recently said he believed Western corporations such as Microsoft will find it very difficult to acquire major Japanese studios due to cultural issues.

“Nothing can be ruled out in this day and age,” said Toto. “But in some ways, Microsoft taking over a big Japanese publisher would be bigger news than the Activision deal. So far no foreign game company has been able to acquire a [big] Japanese studio — and I can guarantee you there have been attempts, from both western and Asian players.”

VGC’s full PlatinumGames interview will be published this week.
 
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Not yet, but that does not change the fact that mgr is still mechanically easier than their other game. Revengeance mod just make the margin of error way tighter.

When you say "mechanically easier", do you mean "mechanically less complex" or "mechanically less challenging"? Neither is true really, because there are both "mechanically less complex" platinum's titles like Nier Automata, Legend of Korra and MadWorld and "mechanically less challenging" ones like Bayonetta 2 (which is absolutely great but piss easy before 4th climax)
 

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