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Temple+ Support archive

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Heinous Hat

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I get a cheap thrill whenever my characters show up in your screenshots :P

For the stinking cloud fix... do you feel that it's enough to make the optional nerf (via Co8_config.ini) irrelevant? That is, the one that limits the spell duration to 1d3+1 rounds... since that part should be working now. The other half of the equation is that the AI doesn't bother to escape the cloud in the first place. I have the Lareth fight and the ambush coming up which should be a good place to scrutinize it.

On the Bless spell... target selection was mildly confusing, probably because it's different from before like gazra and Jaesun pointed out. The d20 SRD has it as 50ft centered on the caster, so the way it is now is correct, but maybe awkward that it's still manually targeted like g says.

Hezrou Stench... according to the SRD, immunity to poison or applying delay/neutralize poison is the only way to mitigate the effect (beyond the Fortitude save), so Spell Resistance wouldn't apply.

Something I've noticed when looking at character conditions (afraid, nauseated, etc) is that some aren't distinguished beyond the general case. Particularly, 'afraid' appears as a catch all status in the tooltip where you would expect to see either 'shaken', 'frightened' or 'panicked' to describe the level of a fear effect. Also, regarding what should be the 'shaken' condition... it doesn't look like the base effect is working properly. A 'shaken' character should take -2 to attacks, saves and skill checks. The combat log doesn't show this being applied, however, at least in the case of saving throws. Have to look at it more closely to see the extent of what's (not) happening.
 
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Heinous Hat

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Having a crash in pre+725 when selecting "dismiss spell" from the radial menu. Save and logs uploaded (nothing obvious in the log).

To reproduce, select "dismiss spell" from the cleric's (Biggus') radial menu. He has only one spell active... Enlarge Person on Elmo.
Fixed in b726
 
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Sitra Achara

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I get a cheap thrill whenever my characters show up in your screenshots :P

For the stinking cloud fix... do you feel that it's enough to make the optional nerf (via Co8_config.ini) irrelevant? That is, the one that limits the spell duration to 1d3+1 rounds... since that part should be working now. The other half of the equation is that the AI doesn't bother to escape the cloud in the first place. I have the Lareth fight and the ambush coming up which should be a good place to scrutinize it.
Well since it's optional, and off by default, I see no harm in preserving it, particularly given the AI limitations. Sometimes the AI does escape the cloud, if only because it tries to approach your guys (for melee types at least). I certainly intend to add AoE awareness to the AI though.

On the Bless spell
... target selection was mildly confusing, probably because it's different from before like gazra and Jaesun pointed out. The d20 SRD has it as 50ft centered on the caster, so the way it is now is correct, but maybe awkward that it's still manually targeted like g says.
I vaguely recall it being done on purpose, perhaps in Murlynd's spell overhaul. Not a high priority though tbh.



Something I've noticed when looking at character conditions (afraid, nauseated, etc) is that some aren't distinguished beyond the general case. Particularly, 'afraid' appears as a catch all status in the tooltip where you would expect to see either 'shaken', 'frightened' or 'panicked' to describe the level of a fear effect. Also, regarding what should be the 'shaken' condition... it doesn't look like the base effect is working properly. A 'shaken' character should take -2 to attacks, saves and skill checks. The combat log doesn't show this being applied, however, at least in the case of saving throws. Have to look at it more closely to see the extent of what's (not) happening.
There's definitely code in place to modify the saving throw. It's possible someth8ng interferes with it (there's a flag check that can cause it to terminate early). Will check. I'll mprove the effect tooltip too.
Improved Cause Fear tooltip in b732
 
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Heinous Hat

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There's definitely code in place to modify the saving throw. It's possible someth8ng interferes with it (there's a flag check that can cause it to terminate early). Will check. I'll mprove the effect tooltip too.

I've been testing it with Cause Fear. Tried it again today and it's working in the case of the Giant Frogs by the moathouse... a frog who made his save took a -2 penalty to both attack and save rolls in the subsequent round. The help window with the roll results shows just 'fear' as the related condition. So it looks situational... will try to capture a bad case in a save game.

Improving the tooltip would be great. I can't think of any other general conditions offhand that lack adequate description.
Done in b732
 
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Heinous Hat

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Testing pre+725 now, though the following have been running bugs I forgot to mention earlier...

- When creating a character at an inn (via the guestbook), if you cancel before finishing the character, a stray character of that race and type appears (permanently) on the map at that location (e.g. Welcome Wench). It persists (if you save) through game restarts. They also pile up on the same spot if you repeat.

- Removing a character from the party via the guestbook works, however, you can no longer re-add that particular character. Their entry in the guestbook remains red and you can't select 'add'.
 

Sitra Achara

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Testing pre+725 now, though the following have been running bugs I forgot to mention earlier...

- When creating a character at an inn (via the guestbook), if you cancel before finishing the character, a stray character of that race and type appears (permanently) on the map at that location (e.g. Welcome Wench). It persists (if you save) through game restarts. They also pile up on the same spot if you repeat.

- Removing a character from the party via the guestbook works, however, you can no longer re-add that particular character. Their entry in the guestbook remains red and you can't select 'add'.
By 'long running' you mean vanilla ;) The first is too amusing to fix, I think the second is intended (so you don't recycle the same character e.g. when it dies).
 

Heinous Hat

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By 'long running' you mean vanilla ;) The first is too amusing to fix, I think the second is intended (so you don't recycle the same character e.g. when it dies).

Yeah, so they are :roll:. Somehow never caught either of those. For the the one where you can't re-add characters, I was fooled by the instructions in the Party Pool window (which I never bothered to read before).
 

Heinous Hat

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Sitra, can you confirm whether the following stuff is working on your end...

- alphabetized spell lists
- the new item non-proficiency warning tooltip
- alt-click to sell/transfer to vendors or containers

These have all gone missing recently (possibly prior to pre+729). The last one would intermittently fail for me, but now it doesn't work at all.
 

Sitra Achara

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Sitra, can you confirm whether the following stuff is working on your end...

- alphabetized spell lists
- the new item non-proficiency warning tooltip
- alt-click to sell/transfer to vendors or containers

These have all gone missing recently (possibly prior to pre+729). The last one would intermittently fail for me, but now it doesn't work at all.
Yeah, accidentally omitted the relevant file. Fixed in b730.
 

Heinous Hat

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Save and logs uploaded related to a crash with 730 (spellcast_pathing_crash_pre+730)

To reproduce, select the wizard and cast Mage Armor on a party member who is not adjacent to the caster. Essentially, any spell that requires the caster to path to the target will cause an immediate ctd (before he moves).

This seems highly situational... I can't reproduce it outside of the save I uploaded and the problem goes away when leaving the Hommlet map. I was also able to avoid a crash in this example by performing a sequence of random actions prior to casting a targeted spell. Simply shifting the party around so the caster has a straight line to the target will still produce a crash though.

Fixed in b734

I've had some other isolated crashes recently that I wasn't able to capture in a save which are hopefully related.
 
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Sitra Achara

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Save and logs uploaded related to a crash with 730 (spellcast_pathing_crash_pre+730)

To reproduce, select the wizard and cast Mage Armor on a party member who is not adjacent to the caster. Essentially, any spell that requires the caster to path to the target will cause an immediate ctd (before he moves).

This seems highly situational... I can't reproduce it outside of the save I uploaded and the problem goes away when leaving the Hommlet map. I was also able to avoid a crash in this example by performing a sequence of random actions prior to casting a targeted spell. Simply shifting the party around so the caster has a straight line to the target will still produce a crash though.

I've had some other isolated crashes recently that I wasn't able to capture in a save which are hopefully related.

Huh, apparently it had a few phantom "Ready Vs" actions with a null handle lying around. Starting combat flushes them, but fixed in b734 nonetheless. (were the other crashes happening outside of combat too? also, might be related to the keyboard issues you've described above, also looking into it)
 

Heinous Hat

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Huh, apparently it had a few phantom "Ready Vs" actions with a null handle lying around. Starting combat flushes them, but fixed in b734 nonetheless. (were these crashes happening outside of combat too? also, might be related to the keyboard issues you've described above, also looking into it)

Yeah, casting a hostile spell on a friendly (which starts combat) may have been the "fix" in that scenario.

Other abrupt crashes have been out of combat, iirc. Hard to say until I get another... since these are not repeatable. It isn't frequent.

I did reassign some hotkeys recently which were previously linked to ready actions. I noticed the confirmation popup that accompanies the key assignment often shows a blank where it should show the previous function. Also, getting the CTRL-click to register is still sporadically painful.


Question on ready vs actions (while I'm thinking of it)... 'ready vs spell' triggered recently for me on a friendly caster. It's easy to bypass, but it wastes the readied action. Is that a known bug?
Fixed in b742
 
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Sitra Achara

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I bought Eyeglasses in the starter shop and equipped them on my Appraise PC. I later bought merchant scales from Rannos Davl in Hommlet then the eyeglasses disappeared. Like, they were removed from the universe.

I can still buy more merchant scales (and have their bonuses stack, which I find interesting).
Fixed in b735, however, NB! It might require starting a new game if you already have a Merchant's Scale or Eyeglasses in your inventory.

In case you're curious about the nitty gritty: the eyeglasses disappearance was intentionally scripted as a workaround aimed at preventing the skill bonuses from stacking. This is no longer needed, as I have added a new "Special Equipment Skill Bonus" modifier which prevents stacking, unlike the previously used "Skill Circumstance Bonus" which did.

Edit: Make that b736, fixed small oops.
 
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guinness22

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Guys, sorry if this is the wrong place, but I am not sure if this is a game limitation or something that is related to the fact I have Co8 8.1.0 + Rudy's Item Mod 0.8 + Temple+ 734 installed, so I thought I would ask here and at Co8...(very excited for the possibility of level 50 with Temple+ so I was starting a run with two multiclass characters...). If it is a game limitation (which I suspect it probably is) I don't know if something can be changed to accommodate but I thought I would ask.

Hopefully I can explain this clearly - For the first time I am trying an Elven Wizard/Cleric multiclass, and having leveled up to 1/1 I notice that although I have the proper 3 separate tabs for Cleric Wizard Domain in the 'Spells Known' window of my character sheet every time I try to memorize the individual spells for each of cleric and wizard they overwrite each other in the 'Spells Memorized' window and I end up with either/or but not both (ie. if I click on the Cleric spells to be memorized first then the Wizard spells after the Wizard spells will 'overwrite' the selected Cleric spells).

I searched the forum but couldn't find anything related to this specific Wizard/Cleric multiclass issue, although I thought I read something quite a while back at Co8 about a Bard/Sorcerer combo effectively doing the same thing and you don't end up with the combined slots available.

I have Co8 8.1.0, Rudy's Item 0.8, and Temple+ 734 installed.

Any insight would be appreciated, maybe this is a game engine limitation and spell casting classes multiclassed with other similar spell casting classes (ie both memorized or both spontaneous) are not viable, but a memorized/spontaneous combo is?

Thanks!
Fixed in b736
 
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Sitra Achara

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Guys, sorry if this is the wrong place, but I am not sure if this is a game limitation or something that is related to the fact I have Co8 8.1.0 + Rudy's Item Mod 0.8 + Temple+ 734 installed, so I thought I would ask here and at Co8...(very excited for the possibility of level 50 with Temple+ so I was starting a run with two multiclass characters...). If it is a game limitation (which I suspect it probably is) I don't know if something can be changed to accommodate but I thought I would ask.

Hopefully I can explain this clearly - For the first time I am trying an Elven Wizard/Cleric multiclass, and having leveled up to 1/1 I notice that although I have the proper 3 separate tabs for Cleric Wizard Domain in the 'Spells Known' window of my character sheet every time I try to memorize the individual spells for each of cleric and wizard they overwrite each other in the 'Spells Memorized' window and I end up with either/or but not both (ie. if I click on the Cleric spells to be memorized first then the Wizard spells after the Wizard spells will 'overwrite' the selected Cleric spells).

I searched the forum but couldn't find anything related to this specific Wizard/Cleric multiclass issue, although I thought I read something quite a while back at Co8 about a Bard/Sorcerer combo effectively doing the same thing and you don't end up with the combined slots available.

I have Co8 8.1.0, Rudy's Item 0.8, and Temple+ 734 installed.

Any insight would be appreciated, maybe this is a game engine limitation and spell casting classes multiclassed with other similar spell casting classes (ie both memorized or both spontaneous) are not viable, but a memorized/spontaneous combo is?

Thanks!

Hi guiness!
Was indeed a small bug in the SpellbookShow function rewrite, fixed this in b736.
 

guinness22

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Hi guiness!
Was indeed a small bug in the SpellbookShow function rewrite, fixed this in b736.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant, thanks SA! I had never done that multiclass combo before and thought perhaps I was doing something or it was a game limitation. Again, very excited for this project and particularly interested in perhaps running a two PC Ranger/Rogue/Sorcerer + Cleric/Wizard party...what they won't have in sheer number of characters maybe they will make up in levels? haha...Off to try 140 and my multiclass characters!

Thanks so much for all you and teammates do to constantly improve and keep this game fresh!!

Much respect,
g22
 

Sitra Achara

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When my gnome wizard cast Enlarge Person on herself while she had a Longsword equipped, the game engine correctly kept her reach at 5 feet, but the game engine wrongly increased her size to large. Gnomes and halflings are small-sized creatures, so the game engine should have increased her size to normal (e.g. human-sized). The D&D 3.5 SRD states the following about the spell Enlarge Person:
Are you sure the size increased to large? I don't mean visually, I mean in terms of effect on stats. For example, if you check with .stat_level_get(stat_size), does it return a value higher than 5 for your gnome?

During the Hedrack combat, my wizard cast Charm Person on Senshock which successfully charmed him. Hedrack hit Senshock and reduced Senshock's Hit Points to a dangerously low amount. Senshock teleported to Verbobonc. I thought that this was a little odd considering that Senshock was charmed at the time.
Well, being charmed doesn't mean he's enslaved to you, in that respect I think it's fine.

As you say Charm Person / Monster are overpowered since they act almost like Dominate Person / Monster. I'll make a more RAW compliant version at some point, but I'll probably tie it to a higher Difficulty setting because people usually don't like having their toys taken away. (for example, I've seen it argued that the Charm spells don't have their non-combat utility implemented, so it's not completely fair to apply a "one sided" nerf)
 
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guinness22

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Co8 8.1.0 + Rudy's Item Mod 0.8 + Temple+ 142

Crafted and found items that are supposed to enhance stats don't in my game...for example Gloves of Dexterity +2 found after the Imeryds Run battle can be equipped but don't enhance Dex by 2...so I crafted Gloves of Dex, Belt of Giants Strength, and Amulet of Wisdom, all +4, to test and none enhanced my characters abilities.

Interestingly if I click on my Elven character's dex value to see the breakdown after equipping the gloves from Imeryds, the value adds up to '22 total' (20 ability + 2 gloves of dex) but only 20 shows on my character sheet and it only registers as 20 (ie. +5) for AC and range attacks. Also, the '20' remains the color white on the character sheet when the gloves are equipped, rather than changing to a yellow '22'.
 

Sitra Achara

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Co8 8.1.0 + Rudy's Item Mod 0.8 + Temple+ 142

Crafted and found items that are supposed to enhance stats don't in my game...for example Gloves of Dexterity +2 found after the Imeryds Run battle can be equipped but don't enhance Dex by 2...so I crafted Gloves of Dex, Belt of Giants Strength, and Amulet of Wisdom, all +4, to test and none enhanced my characters abilities.

Interestingly if I click on my Elven character's dex value to see the breakdown after equipping the gloves from Imeryds, the value adds up to '22 total' (20 ability + 2 gloves of dex) but only 20 shows on my character sheet and it only registers as 20 (ie. +5) for AC and range attacks. Also, the '20' remains the color white on the character sheet when the gloves are equipped, rather than changing to a yellow '22'.

Thanks, fixed in 743.
 

Sitra Achara

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So, the big question: do you think it's ready?

My general impression is that it is. Most of the bugs reported lately seem to be either vanilla/Co8 issues or infrequent one-offs, and I think these are massively outweighed by the fixes and improvements made.

Assuming so, and barring any last minute catastrophes, we'll likely release 1.0 next weekend, depending on when Pug finishes the Installer/Updater. (those who don't want it can just grab the zip as usual of course)
 

Heinous Hat

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There are bound to be more one-offs (and related CTDs), but there's nothing egregious outside of the occasional hiccup. I don't think you'd be doing anyone a disservice by making a general release at this point... all of the improvements (major and minor) add up to a more interesting game along with substantial improvements to UI details. And the rendering overhaul really helps performance and technical graphics fidelity. I guess that cloth/lighting glitch in the model viewer is the most obvious outstanding bug unique to temple+.
 

guinness22

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So, the big question: do you think it's ready?

My general impression is that it is. Most of the bugs reported lately seem to be either vanilla/Co8 issues or infrequent one-offs, and I think these are massively outweighed by the fixes and improvements made.

Assuming so, and barring any last minute catastrophes, we'll likely release 1.0 next weekend, depending on when Pug finishes the Installer/Updater. (those who don't want it can just grab the zip as usual of course)


Been playing a lot this weekend, and am all the way through to the third level of the Temple via the guard tower battle/secret entrance with only the two issues (until Smigmal) that I previously pointed out that were fixed and only a single crash (thanks again, I've been away from this game for a while and this endeavor takes the game up a few notches to say the least!). I did notice that in the Smigmal fight she just kept fighting to the death rather than initiating dialogue and ultimately summoning her two assassins...I had her down to 19 hit points and passed all my turns for 4 or 5 rounds because I was initially surprised she didn't initiate dialogue, so then I hit her again taking her down to 7 hit points and passed all my turns again for 4 or 5 rounds to see if she would initiate but she never did, just fought to the death. Also small thing because I think I actually prefer it, but merchants refresh so much slower than games from my pre-Temple+ days (maybe that's by design and I missed?). Co8 8.1.0 + Rudy's Item Mod 0.8 + Temple+ 145.
Fixed in b746

Also, one very small thing that oddly I miss - at some point the Co8 mod pack 'deleted' Elmo's dialogue and Otis' response when Elmo first sees his brother in Nulb - "Hey, it's my brudder Otis! Hello brudder!" .... "Hey Elmo, how are you, how are mom and dad?" or however it all went...Not sure if it's a flag or what happened, but I thought it helped a bit with immersion and it doesn't trigger anymore. Not sure if that's an easy fix or even worthwhile but I thought I would mention.
Fixed in b748

Thanks,
g22
 
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