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Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Kem0sabe, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. Corbin Dallas Multipass Learned

    Corbin Dallas Multipass
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    Except, except, except... he fucking said he had an existant working playable game and shared AAR's. He just needed some help with graphics and sprite work. But he never ever showed the existence of this supposed playable game, nor did he share it, and all the footage he shared was clearly faked (In that there wasn't game logic running things, he was controlling everything).

    Yeah, sometimes people take on too much and get overwhelmed. That's not fraud, at worst it's incompetence. When you lie and claim to have a thing that you don't have, then your incompetence leads you not to be able to make the thing you lied about, it's fraud. Sure, maybe kevin thought he would make the lie come true eventually, but he still knowingly lied, for the purpose of getting money. It's the dictionary definition of fraud.

    The failure of TWS stems from the false representation at the beginning of the project that TWS already existed.

    People just want to simp for the people screwing them over so they don't feel as stupid, well suck it up, you got duped, try to learn from the experience, rather than deluding yourself.

    Or whatever, keep falling for obvious scams, it's your money and your life. I'll be here, ready to laugh at you.
     
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  2. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    you're shadow boxing Corbin Dallas Multipass; no one is saying the multitude of things you are arguing against. at least not here, now, in this thread.
     
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  3. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    Yeah, to be clear, my reaction is more one of bemusement at the sordid nature of human beings, not belief in what he was saying. The Confederate Express fraud had a clearer "logic" to it -- the perpetrators turned out to be engaged in some other scam (squatting in a VRBO or something?), their behavior on being found out was a mix of smugness and aggression, and the investment they put into the ConEx con was pretty light compared to the amount of things that KDG actually made for TWS (though I guess they ultimately released some game). So there was a big financial upside to the fraud and comparably little risk. With TWS, the oddity is that the people seemed like normal guys who faced real risk if people got mad enough (they weren't penniless mooches who had nothing to fear from a lawsuit since they had no assets, they both had real jobs if I recall), and they continued to spend money on the project after the Kickstarter closed.

    This seems like a fair interpretation: "maybe kevin thought he would make the lie come true eventually, but he still knowingly lied, for the purpose of getting money." (I would add "for the purpose of getting money to make the lie come true.") Even then, the best you can say is that there was a combination of incredible naivete (believing that they could deliver on these promises) and outright dishonesty.

    This is what they said at the start of the "risks" section:
    It certainly seems like this was untrue, and done to induce people to give them money.
     
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  4. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    So, a mysterious entity plays with the minds of ignorant mortals, taunting and seducing them with elaborate stories, making them part with their savings, sowing anger and discord...

    It seems the game does exist, after all. Just not exactly the kind you have imagined after reading ingame texts.
     
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  5. Corbin Dallas Multipass Learned

    Corbin Dallas Multipass
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    But only the people who paid for it had their minds destroyed. So... kind of a kinder, gentler unknowable horror, that you have to buy into to be negatively affected by.

    That's fair. Kevin seemed nicer than Cthulu, scam or not. Cthulu would send you a non-euclidean refund that would show you all the dark horrible secrets of the grasping horrors that lurk in the shadows until your mind simply let go from the unfathomably grotesque savagery that waits for us all behind the veil.
     
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  6. almondblight Arcane

    almondblight
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    The main developer struck me as a guy who knew a bit about programming/development and thought he just taped enough Unity plugins together he'd have a game. So when you say he was a Civ modder, it makes sense. Guy had experience modding Civ, thought he could "mod" Unity into a full blown game.

    This wasn't really too uncommon during the crazy early years of the Kickstarter craze. I think the Greed Monger thread in MMORPG follows a similar path. The main programmer kept saying to his partner that he just needed one more Unity plugin, and then his cobbled together Frankenstein's monster of a game would actually work. They even had the same incompetent programmer/oblivious business guy split that That Which Sleep had (and I believe a similar outcome, where the business guy bailed when he realized the whole thing was smoke and mirrors, and the programmer took over full responsibility convinced that he was on the verge of making things work).
     
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  7. Corbin Dallas Multipass Learned

    Corbin Dallas Multipass
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    But he said he already had a working game that he played, not he almost had a game. By lying about that already working game to fund raise he was a scammer from the beginning by definition.
     
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  8. Lithium Flower Arcane

    Lithium Flower
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    Cool.
     
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  9. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    But it does exist ...
    The world simulates a set of nobles, all with their own aims and interests. They existing in societies, and vote to achieve their ends. By proposing votes, and voting strategically, you can manipulate them into failing to respond to the true threat, your slowly-developing hidden forces.
    You also control dark agents, from vampires to plague doctors to corrupted merchants, who can travel across the world map, committing dark crimes and escaping before the human forces discover your actions. They, too, can then assist your political goals, in their own various ways.
    Set silversmiths against wine-makers, while subverting coastal villages to build an army of Deep One fish-people, waiting to storm the surface. Rally your kingdom against another, while supporting dissident nobles in the other in order to provoke civil war, weakening them such that they make easy prey. Grow horrific fields of fleshy limbs and gnashing teeth to terrify the nobles into failing to realise that your enthralled noble is slowly converting them from within into dark cultists.
     
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  10. Aidan Literate

    Aidan
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    that’s shadows behind the thrones not that which sleeps
     
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  11. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    The real that which sleeps is this thread. And the kickstarted campaign. And the promises. And...
     
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  12. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    And the most important : The friends you made along the way !
     
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  13. An Actual Englishman Literate

    An Actual Englishman
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    The next Shadows Behind the Throne game, named 'Shadows of Forbidden Gods' is very, very similar to what was promised in TWS.

    I've made a post here about it.
     
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  14. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    Shadows of Forbidden Gods sur Steam (steampowered.com)
    yes possibly better looking too now .
     
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