Game News The Age of Decadence Released

[Goral]

Blatant lying starting to go on in this thread. There's no way a hybrid character can do most combats with no support items, any situation with 3v1 and you are dead.

What is a blatant lie is implying that someone said you can do most combat with no support items with a hybrid character. Without nets/bolas and alchemy some of the fights are unwinnable unless you have rather good combat stats.

 

[Cadmus]

ADOM and soloed BG2, for example.

AoD combat is serviceable but gets repetitive when you'd have to do the same combats in a second playthrough. Deciding which attacks to use is pretty simple math, nets, bombs etc. add some variation but not quite enough, especially when a combat character (hybrid too) can do most fights without expending them.

try harder, faggot

 

[Johannes]

try harder, faggot

 

[Johannes]

What is a blatant lie is implying that someone said you can do most combat with no support items with a hybrid character. Without nets/bolas and alchemy some of the fights are unwinnable unless you have rather good combat stats.

Where's the contradiction? Most combats vs. some of the fights

 

[Sensuki]

The combat difficulty in AoD is not enough dependent on intra-combat decisions. It's depned dependent on what you do before hand, how you build your character, what weapons you choose, etc. But during combat, choosing your attack is based on logistics, not so much tactics or adaptation during combat.

I also found this. It's all about character build and gear basically. Very similar to Pillars of Eternity but without the rote pre-encounter setup. Much prefer combat in SRR, Banner Saga and E:C to this.

The character system and stuff is fine, but the combat system isn't very tactical.

 

[oscar]

For those Choice of Games interactive stories I thought this (and the Hornblower-esque one) was the best: https://www.choiceofgames.com/user-contributed/sabres-of-infinity/

 

[Dreaad]

I also found this. It's all about character build and gear basically. Very similar to Pillars of Eternity but without the rote pre-encounter setup. Much prefer combat in SRR, Banner Saga and E:C to this.

The character system and stuff is fine, but the combat system isn't very tactical.

Well the tactics is in the build and how you choose to play the game...... What decisions and fights you get into. The actual combat has some tactics, though it's mostly hidden in fights where you have allies. I imagine if you had a party and fought bigger groups there would be plenty of strategy and planning involved.

 

[Sensuki]

That's strategical stuff. I'm talking about in combat tactical variety. When you do a build, you are basically following a repetitive sequence for the entirety of combat at least in what I've found so far. I imagine it gets a bit more involving in some instances though.

I imagine if you had a party and fought bigger groups there would be plenty of strategy and planning involved.

Is the dungeon crawler game that they're gonna do gonna be party-based? That would be more interesting IMO.

 

[J_C]

Why would anybody in their right mind play as full-talk Merchant? Are you a cowardly sissy? Afraid of some combat eh?

Why wouldn't? Does the game offer a non violent playthrough or not? It does? Good.

 

[J_C]

Why do I have the impression that people who dismiss the combat suck at it?

Please, name two cRPGs, without party and better combat.

The fact that there is no better combat than this in a no-party turn based game doesn't mean this is very good. It is decent. Just like the combat in Fallout 1-2. I don't know if you can even make very good, tactical combat in a no-party turn based game. With a full party, you can position several people at different places, use their talents in synergy. But in Fallout1,2, AOD, all you can do is to stand there, hit the enemy with a type of attack and throw a bomb, potion here and there. Maybe you can move to a position where only one enemy can reach you. As others have said, the important thing is to develop your character well, and prepare for combat beforehand. That is the strategical part. When in combat, tactics is out of the window.

 

[hivemind]

Tactics play a large part if you are playing a hybrid character.(no having alchemy and or crafting doesn't count as hybrid)

 

[J_C]

Tactics play a large part if you are playing a hybrid character.(no having alchemy and or crafting doesn't count as hybrid)

Would you mind giving us an example? So, you are in combat with three melee dudes, and you are a hyprid character. What is in your tactical arsenal?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Why wouldn't?

Because a full-talk merchant playthrough is a through and through Bioware game, just with the combat removed, and the worst aspect of AoD by far.

 

[hivemind]

Would you mind giving us an example? So, you are in combat with three melee dudes, and you are a hyprid character. What is in your tactical arsenal?

Positioning, target priority, decision which attack to use, consumables.

If I'm fighting 3 melee dudes I position myself so that if I during my turn feint one of them the other two will have to readjust their positions on their turn and thus will usually lose at least one attack each.

The game is not some super hardcore tactics simulator but there are some tactical elements to it. I honestly don't feel it's any less trivial than the group based combat in other cRPGs which is also usually easy as shit and requires minimal brain power.

 

[Sensuki]

I don't know if you can even make very good, tactical combat in a no-party turn based game.

UnderRail? (haven't played myself though)

 

[J_C]

Because a full-talk merchant playthrough is a through and through Bioware game, just with the combat removed, and the worst aspect of AoD by far.

Story, c&c and dialogues are very good, while combat is just decent. I think i am playing the best parts of the game, dismissing the worse part. But if you think the writing, c&c is on a Bioware level, you should really check your codex priviligies.

Also, having non combat options in Rpgs is a bad thing now? WTF?

 

[Sensuki]

Positioning, target priority, decision which attack to use, consumables.

If I'm fighting 3 melee dudes I position myself so that if I during my turn feint one of them the other two will have to readjust their positions on their turn and thus will usually lose at least one attack each.

The game is not some super hardcore tactics simulator but there are some tactical elements to it. I honestly don't feel it's any less trivial than the group based combat in other cRPGs which is also usually easy as shit and requires minimal brain power.

This is what I've garnered from my brief run of it:

Initial position is important but a lot of the time you don't get much choice. Usually there is a clear best option which is either: shortest distance to closest target so you can get an extra attack in, move to a position where enemies have to move to attack you first or get in position that limits amount of enemies that can hit you (subject to terrain).

Target order can be important. You generally use debuff attacks first to lower the enemy stats and then use harder hitting ones. If they hit you and debuff you, that makes you stick with the basic ones.

You generally do not want to move in melee combat because of high AP cost and AoOs. You move when you have to. System uses shared AP for move and attacks, so existence of AoO is fine here.

In videos I've watched I just see people repeating the same attack over and over again once they've gotten more powerful.

What actions enemies take matters in the sense that you hope they don't hit you too often (as it is largely RNG, which is fine) but so far about the only reactivity from enemy actions that I've encountered is that when they debuff you it often forces you to stick with basic attacks. This probably happens less and less as you get more powerful.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Story

Dispensing Sidequests to NPCs: The Game

But if you think the writing, c&c is on a Bioware level, you should really check your codex priviligies.

Please point me to the deep game-changing C&C in the Commercium questline. I can't wait.

Also, having non combat options in Rpgs is a bad thing now? WTF?

It is when it's as half-arsed as in AoD.

 

[MrMarbles]

I was fortunate enough to make my first pc an all-out combat character. It is more amusing being stronger than everyone in this game than in most RPG games for some reason.

On a side note: I don't know how hard it is to be a hybrid, but as a full combat pc I wrecked the game pretty handily. Words.

I figured out pretty late that the difficulty had a lot to do with playing a hybrid and trying to do everything. There are some definite perks to the hybrid playstyle though:

1. Being neither a master slayer nor master talker, choices in quests are actually meaningful. You don't automatically click the presuasion/streetwise option, you actually have to consider whether a surprise attack will be more effective.
2. Being able to handle 2, maybe 3 opponents lets you try out some stuff that you otherwise would have to skip. Like

Spoiler

after entering Maadoran when the caravan merchant gets taken into an alley. I thought I could maybe handle 2 thugs, so I decided to follow them. Turns out there were 3 thugs and I was screwed, BUT you could talk your way out of it with streetwise. Ding, 2-3 more skillpoints.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Nah, alchemy and to a lesser extent CS are just as viable as crafting for a full combat dude so they would be medium too.


Agreed but also alchemyless (though crafting is slightly better for hybrids due to its use in dialogue checks).

I meant alchemy as well. Should have been clearer.

 

[J_C]

Dispensing Sidequests to NPCs: The Game



Please point me to the deep game-changing C&C in the Commercium questline. I can't wait.



It is when it's as half-arsed as in AoD.

I know, I know, everything is shit.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I know, I know, everything is shit.

Quod erat demonstrandum

 

[Darth Roxor]

But no really, please tell me about the mystical merchant C&C. I'm dying of anticipation here.

 

[Lurker King]

ADOM and soloed BG2, for example.

I can’t comment about ADOM (sadly), but BG2? The only special thing about the combat are the effects of items and spells, but they are fucked over by RTwP retardness. I’m not sure that you can implement a lot of overpowered stuff with different effects and call that a good combat system. Of course, the enormous diversity of items and spells, make the game fresher than most games, but the combat is not that great.

 

[Lurker King]

AoD combat is serviceable but gets repetitive when you'd have to do the same combats in a second playthrough. Deciding which attacks to use is pretty simple math, nets, bombs etc. add some variation but not quite enough, especially when a combat character (hybrid too) can do most fights without expending them.

You sound as if every fight in AoD was a matter of crushing numbers. The use of nets, bolas, poison, healing salve, antidote, better position (for instance, a choke point or if you are behind an enemy to increase the risk of friendly fire, or to use feint when you are covered, etc), or the best type of attack for that moment, are all obviously intro combat decisions. The fact that you can make the perfect build for a causal and he will die in the first fight proves that. You are also ignoring that the fights are not the same for the simple reason that some of them were designed to be different. The outpost fight is very different from the Miltiades’ fight. You are also dismissing the importance that different weapons have for your enjoyment of the combat. Whether you use a crossbow build, a hasta-blocker, a dagger or a sword build, they all feel very different. The weapons have different effects; require different stats, different combat items, etc. Of course, the game would benefit if they could use more weapons, combat items, gave more importance to environment factors (cover, high ground, explosive objects, etc.). What else? Maybe ambush? I don’t know. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that a proper cRPG will never place every single combat situation requiring hours of fighting, for the simple reason that they need to make sense in the setting. Unless you are designing a Second World War cRPG.