KickStarter The Banner Saga

[Lyric Suite]

The first trailer is out

Atheist vikings? Lol le fuck?

 

[Azrael the cat]

I take it as obvious that an indie could never get the IP, but I'd be so much more excited if this was going to be a saga featuring Dr Bruce Banner, (starts singing) 'altered by gamma rays, turns into the HULK'.

Could have a skill point system that was similar to classes, and still be simple. Can put points into Bruce, Green Hulk and Grey Hulk skill-trees (Professor, Demonic and World-War-Hulk versions of the Hulk are prestige classes available only through combinations of skill, alignment, quest outcomes and plot events, e.g. playing goodie-two-shoes with emphasis on Bruce, choosing all the intellectual solutions, but still researching and going Hulk SMASH at the right times eventually allows Bruce to take control of his rage, allowing the Professor Hulk, where he retains the full intellect of Bruce and also gets a strength somewhere between Grey and an angry Green Hulk).

Points into Bruce give intellect (starts out smarter than most - a D&D 15/16, and about on the level of Iron Man), and can eventually make him into the smartest guy in the Marvel universe, overtaking Reed Richards, Xavier, Dr Doom, Dr Strange etc. It also decreases the likelihood of raging and forcing combat (i.e. turning into the Hulk), and when the Hulk (whether Grey or Green) he has a better chance of getting the Hulk to act reasonably rather than just randomly smashing whoever is near, represented by a greater number of action points per round.

Points into Grey give cunning and insight. They make it easier for Bruce to learn the nature of his inner demons (giving perks such as the ability to transform in return for a cost, and eventually at will). Has a morality penalty if he starts doing too many things that are not in his interests (may make unavailable an option to accept a quest if there's nothing in it for you. Increases the strength and hp of the Hulk (again, regardless of which version of the Hulk you happen to be - i.e. works as a % bonus, so green hulk will still always be stronger than grey), but by considerably less than if you were to put points into green instead. But most importantly, opens up the skill chains of stealth (yes, for quite a long time there was a period where the Hulk in grey form was only slightly larger than a normal human, would wear clothes, do underworld 'jobs' (taking control of the body for months at a time and directly setting things up to provoke Bruce into changing straight back if he unexpectedly turned back to Bruce - and he did creep around as grey, not just smash shit), intimidate (obviously you're intimidating everyone in green form, but you can only speak as Bruce or Mr Grey, unless you've unlocked a prestige class) and observation (identification in dialogue and by visual cue of non-scientific things that Bruce would miss - especially things to do with crime and the seedy underside of life, that Bruce would miss if not for Grey's influence. Lastly, enough points in Grey are needed in some situations/conversations to discover the existence of some prestige classes (particular demonic).

Points into Green massively increase the bonus to strength and hp in all 3 forms (plus any prestige form). High investment in green leads to times where you will auto-initiate combat by changing into the green hulk ('don't make me angry...'), and other times will open up (or even force) 'angry' responses ('you broke that on purpose you useless shit!!') if in a form that can talk, like Bruce, Grey or World-War-Hulk form (I'm guessing that high investment in green would be inconsistent with the Professor prestige class). They open up skills enabling change of body size in any form except for Bruce, fast travel via giant-hulk-jumping, and faster in-combat movement via small-scale version of the same (hence lower action points is partially balanced by being able to do more with what you have). Ultimate perks gained by investment in green include the ability to auto-change into green hulk (or any prestige with equivalent immunities) if you would otherwise be killed by anything that green is immune to (lack of air/vacuum, poison, etc), and upon any blow that would kill you if you were in a less powerful form - downside is a greatly diminished control over changes, so you change to Green whenever provoked (e.g. a possible combat, even if you could have avoided it through Bruce trading scientific skills), and then back to Bruce once Green has finished the combat (preventing controlled changes to Mr Grey).

The actual form you are in is independent of the skills (except that the skills can make it easier/harder to change into particular forms). Bruce the best with science, polite society and strategic planning. Grey is best with cunning, stealth, haggling and criminal dealings - is superstrong, but his strength and hp are fixed by level and skill investment. Green cannot verbally communicate, provokes hostile reactions from armed civillians (which may lead to hostility against Bruce if a change is witnesses), can fast travel at will and has three massive combat advantages: (a) highest per-level/skill strength and hp, (b) an anger meter that gives further bonuses to strength and hp (all other forms except WWH lack this anger meter bonus), and (c) a hefty list of immunities (as mentioned above). Professor has all of Bruce's skills, conversation options and intellect as though he was Bruce, plus Green's pre-bonus strength and hp, but no bonuses from anger. Demonic is the same except substitute Grey Hulk for Bruce (so all of Mr Grey's abilities and conversation options, with Green's combat stats minus the bonus). WWH is Green (keeps the anger meter and bonus) with the ability to verbally communicate (still gets hostile reactions from civilians) and a smattering of skills from Bruce and Grey (e.h. has Bruce's skill with science and Grey's knowledge of the underworld.

Crap. Now I want this game to exist outside my head:-(

 

[Berekän]

Do you wander off like that in real life too, Azrael? Isn't your wife scared?

 

[Chewbot]

Hi! I'm one of the guys from Stoic and we noticed this thread going so I figured I'd mention a few things. First thing we noticed was a lot of comments on was the bioware style dialogue. I had no idea people hate it so passionately! Fortunately, what we're going for is more like The Witcher- your dialogue only branches when there's an important decision to be made. We're also going to be showing the full response options instead of ME-style paraphrasing. For our announcement trailer we wanted to show there is branching dialogue, and this was an example of that. That exact conversation probably won't happen in the game. Bottom line is we want the player to be in control of how they say something and we want what you say to be important.

Definitely looks like there's a wide range of opinion on the art style. For the record, the guy who referenced Sleeping Beauty is dead on- we're absolutely going for the art style that Eyvind Earle created. Amazing artist. Hopefully we evolve it a little further towards Eyvind Earle to the point that people don't think it "looks like fucking shit, made for flash and screams "casual"".

On that note, the gameplay isn't casual at all really. We're really big fans of Tactics, X-COM and Shining Force and we're shooting for a pretty deep strategy game with an emphasis on strategy. We don't plan on having a learning curve as steep as something like Dominions 3, but we're not aiming at the Zynga crowd, either. We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Thanks for all the comments! It's truly nice to get some honest feedback from the hardcore crowd like this.

 

[Achilles]

Ok, I'm sold. I liked the trailer and I'll buy the game if it's reasonably priced.

 

[hoverdog]

Hi! I'm one of the guys from Stoic and we noticed this thread going so I figured I'd mention a few things. First thing we noticed was a lot of comments on was the bioware style dialogue. I had no idea people hate it so passionately! Fortunately, what we're going for is more like The Witcher- your dialogue only branches when there's an important decision to be made. We're also going to be showing the full response options instead of ME-style paraphrasing. For our announcement trailer we wanted to show there is branching dialogue, and this was an example of that. That exact conversation probably won't happen in the game. Bottom line is we want the player to be in control of how they say something and we want what you say to be important.

Well, dialogue wheel (at least for me), isn't THAT bad - though of course I'd rather see normal dialogue options - but rather the implementation, and of course the fact that bioware writing FUCKING SUCKS. I have nothing against this system in Alpha Brotocol, for example - it worked pretty well there. So my advice to you is: no EMOTIONAL ENGAGEMENT, PLEASE. Writing shouldn't be the focus in this kind of game, it just needs to be readable without facepalming every five seconds.

Definitely looks like there's a wide range of opinion on the art style. For the record, the guy who referenced Sleeping Beauty is dead on- we're absolutely going for the art style that Eyvind Earle created. Amazing artist. Hopefully we evolve it a little further towards Eyvind Earle to the point that people don't think it "looks like fucking shit, made for flash and screams "casual"".

The only in-game (is it?) screen looks good IMHO, however the characters should fit into the grid more.

On that note, the gameplay isn't casual at all really. We're really big fans of Tactics, X-COM and Shining Force and we're shooting for a pretty deep strategy game with an emphasis on strategy. We don't plan on having a learning curve as steep as something like Dominions 3, but we're not aiming at the Zynga crowd, either. We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Thanks for all the comments! It's truly nice to get some honest feedback from the hardcore crowd like this.

 

[Jaesun]

On that note, the gameplay isn't casual at all really. We're really big fans of Tactics, X-COM and Shining Force and we're shooting for a pretty deep strategy game with an emphasis on strategy. We don't plan on having a learning curve as steep as something like Dominions 3, but we're not aiming at the Zynga crowd, either. We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Stick with that direction and you got my money. I like what I have seen and heard so far.

 

[Chewbot]

The only in-game (is it?) screen looks good IMHO, however the characters should fit into the grid more.

Actually, both travel scenes, the combat scene and the conversation scene are all real in-game gameplay, not cinematics. We'll be talking more about how travel works in the near future.

 

[Stinger]

Thanks for the clarification. So the map grid for the combat will get larger as the game progresses?

It's certainly on my watch list now.

 

[Azalin]

Hi! I'm one of the guys from Stoic and we noticed this thread going so I figured I'd mention a few things. First thing we noticed was a lot of comments on was the bioware style dialogue. I had no idea people hate it so passionately! Fortunately, what we're going for is more like The Witcher- your dialogue only branches when there's an important decision to be made. We're also going to be showing the full response options instead of ME-style paraphrasing. For our announcement trailer we wanted to show there is branching dialogue, and this was an example of that. That exact conversation probably won't happen in the game. Bottom line is we want the player to be in control of how they say something and we want what you say to be important.

People around here don't hate braching dialogue/dialogue wheel,they don't like how bad and facepalm inducing some of the writing at Bioware is,especially in the last few games.Of course this is the Codex's opinion,other people like it

On that note, the gameplay isn't casual at all really. We're really big fans of Tactics, X-COM and Shining Force and we're shooting for a pretty deep strategy game with an emphasis on strategy. We don't plan on having a learning curve as steep as something like Dominions 3, but we're not aiming at the Zynga crowd, either. We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Thanks for all the comments! It's truly nice to get some honest feedback from the hardcore crowd like this.

 

[MisterStone]

Hi! I'm one of the guys from Stoic and we noticed this thread going so I figured I'd mention a few things. First thing we noticed was a lot of comments on was the bioware style dialogue. I had no idea people hate it so passionately! Fortunately, what we're going for is more like The Witcher- your dialogue only branches when there's an important decision to be made. We're also going to be showing the full response options instead of ME-style paraphrasing. For our announcement trailer we wanted to show there is branching dialogue, and this was an example of that. That exact conversation probably won't happen in the game. Bottom line is we want the player to be in control of how they say something and we want what you say to be important.

People around here don't hate braching dialogue/dialogue wheel,they don't like how bad and facepalm inducing some of the writing at Bioware is,especially in the last few games.Of course this is the Codex's opinion,other people like it

Yeah, it wasn't the dialogue wheel itself that bugged me, I mean is that really different from choosing from a dialogue menu in good games such as Fallout 1-2?

The kind of thing I don't like is the early game question, "How are we going to deal with this horrible situation?" and the three inane answers that don't really have any obvious significance in terms of character building or plot. I don't even have a lot of experience with Bioware games, but this exact thing happened to me the other day in the first few minutes of the ME3 demo (which I didn't finish). If you want the protag and other characters to have this conversation, fine, but you don't need to have the player click on an answer that doesn't really mean anything to accomplish this.

I think how this game is received by people on this site will depend on the writing, since it seems to have all of the other elements that the classic RPGers like. That's not to say you really need listen to us, of course, as Azalin pointed out, Bioware games sell.

 

[Gakkone]

The game does look kinda nice, I like the art style and of course turn based combat always gets me somewhat excited. Of course whether there's any depth to it remains to be seen. Has there been any comment on the price?

 

[Trash]

We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Even if you're just name dropping, the fact you know this game is already a promising thing. Loved the artstyle, liked the trailer. Looking forward to the game.

 

[Chewbot]

We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Even if you're just name dropping, the fact you know this game is already a promising thing. Loved the artstyle, liked the trailer. Looking forward to the game.

Name dropping? Dude, I own an original piece of art from KoDP. One of my favorite games of all time and a huge inspiration for some of the gameplay in The Banner Saga. I hope you guys will like what we're doing with it.

 

[Zed]

Looked at the trailer again and yeah - the art is nice. For flash.

Thematically, it's obviously hollywoodized. But are there races in the game besides humans? Is it high fantasy? Like that horned man in the start, drawing constellations. Is he some sort of demi-god or what..? In that marching army there are more of them.

I'm also intrigued how the game will play besides the combat and conversations. Now I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of this game.

 

[Roguey]

Hey developer person, please nix the "dialogue slowly fades in thing" thanks, it detracts from the speed advantage text-only has over voiced.

 

[Онега]

Whats the AI looking like in concept?
Behavior trees , planners, good old dumb rule based plus scripting?

Please, make AI non determenistic to a degree! Face it, your coding skills are not up to the task to challenge a human brain on any level with a sufficiently complex ruleset in the game. Your "game" is not gonna be the second Chess. It will be at best a puzzle for 13 year olds or worse. Add some spice to it by adding interesting unpredictability. Look at Xcom and Jagged Alliance 2. Both AIs ingame are moronic pieces of shit. But. Xcom aliens have a degree of insanity/randomness, combined with the hard line of sight, it creates a dangerous non deterministic behavior where you lose soldiers. In JA2 you dont have that. The agents are technically superiour by knowing what sound and range is. But they are completely predictable and thus idiotic. They pose no threat whatsoever! Its broken design. Dont do that. Or consider the recent Kings Bounty (which has similar style to your game in combat but superior hexes =P ), where certain enemies always go for same units and broken tactics like "recursive summon spamming while rage meter building" (you have to play to understand that) work. Thats bad design too.

And please iron out obvious exploits. I can already tell considering the size of the battlefield that a potential hilariously easy tactic is gonna be walling of ranged units with tanks and tada!, game won. (just like Total War series, also known as Total Garbage) Considering that your AI probably wont be able to deal with such simple things, consider what I said before! Add some form of interesting unpredictability and rules to go with it. Like in this example, attacks that go over tanks and AI that uses them... (a man can dream...!)

Considering you quote FFTactics, I am very mildly interested. All stands and falls with the challenge the game presents.

Do not balance the game dynamically! It should never scale to any level!

Also make it possible to lose units and not have to reload the game.

How do you handle movement, zone of control, direction? How do you handle corners on the square grid? How does terrain work? Any destruction? When is the release date? Is it Thursday? I am busy on Thursday.

Also, dont listen to the FLASHGAME ART imbeciles. You've got a solid style going even if its a bit flat. Clean lines, no perspective fuck ups. I personally would maybe prefer one extra darker value for cast shadows on characters and more texture. But that would probably clash with the background and the rest of the art. Who knows...

Also, to whoever drew this:

Dude, his left knee is a joke. Considering how he stands and where his hip is... You dont make those mistakes in promotional art...

 

[Trash]

We're aiming at the kind of players who like FFTactics, King of Dragon Pass and Mount and Blade, mainly because that's what we like.

Even if you're just name dropping, the fact you know this game is already a promising thing. Loved the artstyle, liked the trailer. Looking forward to the game.

Name dropping? Dude, I own an original piece of art from KoDP. One of my favorite games of all time and a huge inspiration for some of the gameplay in The Banner Saga. I hope you guys will like what we're doing with it.

Now you actually went and got me excited about this.

 

[felipepepe]

The only in-game (is it?) screen looks good IMHO, however the characters should fit into the grid more.

They are perfectly in-grid bro, is that the big vikings and bad guys are 2x2 squares big, while the tiny warriors and the "mage" are only 1x1.

Dude, his left knee is a joke. Considering how he stands and where his hip is... You dont make those mistakes in promotional art...

Stop trying so hard man, what does the knee of a character art affects the game? They are probably just gonna use it head-to-waist anyway, like they did in the trailer...

 

[laclongquan]

Sounds like a sober Prosper.

You are scaring me, mang. Really scared.

 

[MisterStone]

Dude, the viking guy's eyebrows don't quite match. TOTALLY UNPROFESSHUNUL!

 

[Shannow]

First thing we noticed was a lot of comments on was the bioware style dialogue. I had no idea people hate it so passionately!

Well, some people here hate it with a passion. Don't make the mistake of generalizing that.

Fortunately, what we're going for is more like The Witcher- your dialogue only branches when there's an important decision to be made. We're also going to be showing the full response options instead of ME-style paraphrasing.

Apart from the quality and content of the the actual writing, the lack of that was what bothered most of us about the Biowarian dialogue-wheel. (That and some nonsense PR-hype how the dialogue wheel is somehow superior to normal listed dialogue options...)

Good luck with your project. Don't be irritated by codex mood-swings (and they will come), we're a fractuous crowd.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The art style looks pretty fucking awesome. King of the Dragon Pass comments are inspiring.

 

[visions]

Sounds like orgasm

You are scaring me, mang. Really scared.

Fixed.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Well, sounds better now. And dialogue wheel is evil, no two ways about it but what makes it worse is the inane writing Bioware is often guilty of and the fake choices when everything leads to the same conclusion. But comparisons to KotDP and M&B sound good.