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Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale Series

octavius

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The ultimate platforms is the Apple II GS for BT 1-2, and the DOS version with the unoffical patch for BT3. The 8 and 16 bit Apple version of BT1-2 seem to be the only bug free ones, although the bugs are fairly minor compared to the critically bugged Amiga and original DOS versions of BT3.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
It's a shame some of the 80s series were so oddly sprawled across platforms. If BT3 had a IIgs version too it'd have been the ultimate platform for all of them. Same with Phantasie, 2 never got released on Amiga (or on DOS for that matter) otherwise that'd have been the best platform to play it on. Which reminds me, I need to get an ST emulator working and play through all of Phantasie on that, I think it's that series' ultimate platform.
 

octavius

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Which reminds me, I need to get an ST emulator working and play through all of Phantasie on that, I think it's that series' ultimate platform.

I agree. The Steem emulator is also much more user friendly than Amiga emulators.
 

octavius

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I've been planning my party in BT2.
Since you can have several special members (illusionary, joined, summoned) I though I'd make a party of only five characters:
Paladin
Bard
Three mages. One to develop as Sorceror, one as Wizard and the last as a true Archmage.

But only characters in the last three of the seven slots are in the rear ranks and thus safe from physical attacks. But if you have five characters you can't place any of them in slots 6-7. So with three mages it will be hard to keep them alive unless you have a full party. But if you have a full party you can't have monsters join, and you need to keep one slot open for special NPCs that you need to solve certain puzzles.
Damned choices and consequences!
 

octavius

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Yeah, I think I'll go with a party of Paladin, Monk, Hunter, Bard, Conjurer and Magician instead.
Once I get a good "special" I'll ditch either the Monk or the Hunter.
I can see myself rearranging my party quite a a bit in BT2 since you can have so many special characters, and because the mages will be all but useless in one particular dungeon.
 

hjustin

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I believe I read a statement from Burger Becky that BT1 and BT2 included in the 2004 Bard's Tale are ported from the IIGS version? I have those on my PC and my iPad.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
So, Greater Demons, Basilisks and Expert Mages raping your party, Sceptic?
The game gets truly, truly retarded on the last 2 levels of Mangar's. Even when I can take control of the fight, almost every enemy up there can level-drain or stone, and there's no way to fix those unless you go back to town, at which point you have to redo the stairs activation on level 3, all of level 4, and all of level 5 up to where you left off. I gave up around midway through level 4 and liberally abused save states. The problem is that I can't see how far I'd have had to level grind to make it possible to go through many of the random encounters fairly. 3 or 4 levels would've made no difference so.... 10 levels? millions of experience points? hours of grinding the 496 berserkers? no thanks. This isn't difficulty, it's tedium, and it's why I've always hated grinding. I can put up with it if it's just at the beginning, to get you started, but having to stop what you're doing late in the game and go midlessly grind is just boring. It's the major problem BT suffers from compared to Wizardry and M&M. Even on level 5 the fixed fights were pushovers (as was Mangar for that matter), and because of the wild range of difficulty in the random encounters the way to play fairly is to just keep grinding a fixed, boring, easy fight until you can sleepwalk through most random encounters, at which point you might be able to deal with the most difficult ones, in case they pop up. And then of course you completely break the game because the fixed, obligatory encounters become even more laughable. I might've kept myself in check if the encounter frequency didn't go full retard as well; I know drifting gave the probability earlier but I swear it's much higher on the top level, I wouldn't even have time to turn and reorient myself and I'd be in another encounter - usually right after beating a fixed one (easily of course) a super hard random one would pop up. Now I remember why I don't rank this series as highly as the Trinity of the 80s.

It's a shame too because the level design is great. So great in fact that I started remembering some of it, more than 2 decades later. Level 3 with the dark corridors was irritating, but some of the devilish use of traps, spinners and antimagic in the darkness is extremely clever, and assembling the pieces of the password to open up the stairs is great (I even got fooled by one of the hints, which gives both the first and last... but it's not the real first). What wasn't so great was then going back over the whole level to find where the stairs have appeared... I also bought the master key, which turned out to be useless because all it does is save me an APAR in the sewers, which are much closer to the AG than the tower anyway. Level 4 was great, either I remembered it exactly from here or there was a similar one in another game (perhaps one of the Wizardries?). Reexploring the whole level after switching walls and doors was good fun. The sleeping dragons were a nice touch too. Level 5 wasn't as good, or maybe I was getting soured by all the random encounters, but I remembered stuff here too. The Possess trap was nasty, especially since Jaesun killed my Thor at that point... Thankfully I'd saved an Exorwand so dispelling was easy. I knew the Spectre Snare (well, I called it Spectral Snare the first time) was behind Mangar, and trying to find it through the dark area was quite satisfying. As I said Mangar was a pushover, by far the easist fight on this level. I had another Thor, and he has higher initiative than anything it seems, always one-shots whatever he attacks, seems to get attacked much more than the party, and soaks quite a bit of damage. Once he died I just Snared a Greater Demon and slaughtered Mangar last. He kept summoning stuff, but they'd get killed by my own summon/snared before they'd do anything (sometimes within the same round they get summoned lol). Kylearan showed up to shower me with XP, which made me glad I switched the Sorcerers to Wizards before doing all this.

I'm not quite sure what to think of the game all in all. I think what the devs should've really done is get rid of the fixed-location random encounters and replaced the majority with fully fixed enemies, the way MM1 did it. Maybe this was faster, or I guess the "random encounter" mentality was still predominant, especially in what's essentially a Wizardry clone. As it is the non-stop fighting is tedious, especially near the endgame, and takes away from the great level design. If this wasn't so combat-intensive I think the game would be better remembered. Anyway, on to BT2 (and yes I'm using the same party).
 

octavius

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Yeah, the DOS version at least is brutal on the last two levels, and it's down to pure luck wether you survive or not. Against some enemies you just don't stand a chance, since they kill your party before your own guys are even allowed to act.
But I don't recall it being this brutal the first time I played it, using the Amiga version. So maybe there are some differences, or maybe I was so slow back then that I had accumulated much more XP?

Anyways, I've already started BT2, and have so far explored most of the first level of the beginner dungeon. Random encounter frequency is much lower than I remember, but I guess it increases in later dungeons.

Using transfered characters means the game will be a cakewalk for you for some time, but the difficulty does pick up later even for imported characters.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
I think what'd make the biggest difference on those last levels is pumping up your party's level high enough to get initiative, but that might take as long as playing the entire rest of the game. Really weird game, so much enemy number bloat yet so little HP bloat in the enemies, I don't think a single enemy has more than 100 HP, and most don't even have 50, even in Mangar's, since I could wipe entire groups with a Frost Horn.

Speaking of which, the beginning of BT2 will be funny with an imported party. I have 3 Frost Horns, 5 Dragonshields, 2 Dragonwands, like a dozen Ali's Carpets (I'll never have to actually cast MALE!)... but my Paladin has no weapon because Arc's Hammer didn't transfer. I've also noticed a lot of class requirements are different, some of the items my hunter and rogue were wearing are now unusable by them. Both my mages retained their staves though so that's good.

I'm wondering if I should create a 7th PC. Sure I'll have to use the joinable NPCs in both 2 and 3, but when they don't have to be with me, I could level up another caster, or even a Monk. I was thinking a 3rd caster would be nice, so that by BT3 I get to keep two Archmages and a Chronomancer, but then I thought the monk would work even better, as a pack mule in early BT2, then later on he'll probably kick ass with low AC, then when he becomes useless in BT3 I can turn him into a Geomancer and keep the sweet Crits on my hunter. Though this will be a terrible mistake if I do end up using NPCs... eh I don't know.
 

octavius

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If you're gonna run a full 7 man party I would definitely make the last one another mage.

But why was your Paladin wielding an Arc's Hammer? Stone Blades are the ultimate weapon. Well, not perhaps in BT1 due to no HP bloat, but in BT2 and BT3 it solves the bloat problem.

Also, are you using drifting's patch for BT2? It fixes the Hunter bug. Although it seems almost too effective; I can swear my Hunter gets a critical with every hit now at levels 3-5.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Yep, using Drifting's patch. The reason Jaesun had Arc's Hammer is because I never found a Stone Blade. The 2 best weapons I found were the hammer and a Blood Axe, which is hunter-only, and which Torpid was using.

Speaking of taking a 7th PC, how will that work when I HAVE to have an NPC join? Will the PC be removed and put back in the AG?
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
I see, so the R command only works for NPCs? In this case I'm just going with the 6, I'll fill the blank with a summon if I don't have any needed NPCs.
 

octavius

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Yeah, that's what I'm doing too. But eventually you'll have specials that are better than your Monk and Hunter. Since they can be resurrected you can have all but the illusionary ones as permanent member. Until you find someone better, that is.
Not sure if if 5 PCs get more XP than 6 PCs, though.
 

octavius

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Before Mangar turned into a Dark Lord he was a Dungeon Inspector:

1qunCpe.png
 

octavius

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My party entered the lowest levels of the beginner dungeon in BT2 and in the first fight they were thoroughly raped, despite using all their firepower. Only my new Sorcerer (who got enough XP to to change class to Wizard) survived to bring the corpses back for resurrection, but I only had enough gold to revive my Bard and Conjurer, so now my party has one Storm Giant and two Fire Elementals in the front slots.
I think I'll have to explore the starting town and the wilderness before returning to the Dark Domain...
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
So glad I imported my chars then. Happy grinding :smug:

I did notice a big jump in enemies when going level 2 to 3, and exponentially more going 3 to 4. Nothing can hit my fighters yet, but on level 4 breath and spells actually hit for damage now. It might've been different if I hadn't save-stated in BT1 and had done everything fairly, as all the extra fighting would've boosted everyone by a few levels. Speaking of saving, zomg BT2 has a normal, honest to god save feature! It even saves what you've changed in the current level! I'm impressed. No more save states for me! My PCs still end up saved at the AG once in a while, but I only use it now to quickly switch night to day. Anyway I think everyone was too high level because I didn't get an experience reward for saving the princess, despite the game claiming I did. And by "too high" I mean the fighters are only level 15, and the mages are wizard level 9, and they still need to go through their respective 4th class before I can turn them into archmages. I don't think I'm much better off than a fresh party that just finished the Dark Domain.

Dark Domain is great. First level is a bit boring, but it ramps it up quite a bit in level 2, including a cute corner with a bunch of parallel side corridors, each introducing one of the special dungeon squares. There are SP-leeching squares now, though with Mage Staves they're no biggie (yet). There is one corridor that did nothing I could detect (2nd from the West) - any idea what it's about? Level 3 is where things got really fun. There's an absolutely crazy room full of one-way doors, with the occasional trap and dark zone, which of course makes it impossible to see the doors... glad to have the bard, I can just "flash" #7 to briefly see what's what without wasting SP. I did the same to make mapping the dark maze easier. There are 2 passwords you need, one's a glorified copy protection, but the other actually requires mapping out the level fully and was quite fun. Level 4 was devious. I hated it, but in a Prince of Persia like fashion - I hate it but can't seem to stop playing. HALF of it was a goddamn dark zone, though there aren't many walls in it so it's not THAT hard to map. I already had the special NPC, thanks to a) knowing they're useful, b) figuring out from the clues which you need, and c) ok I lied, I just remembered exactly what it does when I met it. I admit I got stuck at the double doors for a bit, thumbing through clues and not quite figuring it out until I started thinking a bit more meta. Not a fan of that puzzle though. What I realized afterwards is that the clue you get REQUIRES PHDO on level 1 - how do you get the clue without a lot of grinding to get the spell, if you start a fresh level 1 party?

There are so many changes from BT1, despite the games clearly using the same engine. There are some new spells, though thankfully the old ones still seem to be all there. What annoyed me was their moving around the bard songs. Would it have hurt so much to keep the numbers the same? #5 is now #3, #4 is now #5, #2 is now #7... why not keep the same ones the same, and replace the ones that did change? I keep singing the wrong song. At least the names are now a bit more related to what they actually do. I do like the extra slot. Speaking of which, octavius, your post above ("only characters in the last three of the seven slots are in the rear ranks and thus safe from physical attacks") is not quite accurate from what I can tell. The game doesn't seem to pick who's in range and who isn't based on slot numbers. It just picks up the first 4 and they're in melee, everyone else isn't. Even if you position your 6-man party such that slot #1 is empty, the person in slot #5 is still considered in melee. In my case it was the bard, so I didn't mind.

The one change I'm conflicated about is the enemy ranges. On paper it sounds great. Instead of "groups a-b are in range, c-d are not", each group is a certain distance from your party, and they either have to advance, or you have to, to engage in melee. All 4 can be in melee, or all 4 can be out of range. It sounds great and tactical, but in practice there are some... issues. The biggest is with spell ranges. If I have a group of casters at 90', I can't hit them with anything yet (my longest-range spell is a single-target 70'), and of course they can't either... but they can summon weak, useless enemies that appear at 10', preventing me from advancing. And since I have initiative, I kill the summons, then they summon more... over and over and over again. I just kept cycling for a dozen turns, hoping for the one turn where all 3 would do something other than summon, which allows me to advance to 80' and go through this circus all over again. And when I finally got to 70' I was faced with A Dilemma of Dicksmoker proportions: do I continue going through said circus for another 10 rounds, or do I spend the next 10 rounds having my magician (the only one who can reach) cast SPTO over and over and over? Getting Archmage will solve this problem, with spells like MAMA that can hit all 90', but until then some fights might be a bit of a slog. MAGM got disbelieved, which was a waste of SP (and it's not cheap).

Aside from this rather minor quibble, I think I've been wrong all these decades and BT2 is the better game. Pacing is better, dungeon design gets good much faster, puzzles are more interesting, and the combat mechanics are better I think. I might be a bit biased too because I didn't have to grind at all here, thanks to importing, but then I still rate MM1 higher than MM2 so that can't be a big factor. Encounter frequency is a LOT lower than BT1. Even walking into areas like the Monster Reformatory, where I expected a fight every other step, I didn't get that many (on that topic, is there anything in there? I got into the lone room at the end, but it was empty and nothing happened). If I recall BT1 triggers obligatory fights on the fight squares, whereas BT2-3 only have a chance of a fight. If that's the case it'd explain it, and I think I like this model a lot more. I don't know why I remembered hordes of non-stop monster fights in BT2, when this is what I got at the end of BT1 instead. If the game doesn't nosedive it'll switch positions from worst to best of the trilogy.
 

octavius

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So glad I imported my chars then. Happy grinding :smug:

Well, I had to explore the wilderness and the towns anyhow, so it seemed like a good time to do it. Not that there's anything interesting (ie not related to main quest) to find in the wilderness; BT3 did a better job with that, as well as making the various towns more unique.
I found the entrance to The Tombs in Ephesus, so I think I'll head down there after having explored all the towns. I don't remember anything about it, but if it's like BT3 the first level of The Tombs will be easier than the last level of the beginner dungeon.

I did notice a big jump in enemies when going level 2 to 3, and exponentially more going 3 to 4.

That was my experience as well. Slight panic on level 3 when the party was teleported, and even more panic when the game screwed me over by displaying the Levitate symbol when the spell had expired. I had to recast LEVI before the (A)scend button worked, and I could breath a sigh of relief.

Speaking of saving, zomg BT2 has a normal, honest to god save feature! It even saves what you've changed in the current level! I'm impressed. No more save states for me!

I remember CRPG Addict didn't notice the save function untill he had already collected and lost at least one of the Segments. So BT2 remains one of the few games he has not completed...

Anyway I think everyone was too high level because I didn't get an experience reward for saving the princess, despite the game claiming I did. And by "too high" I mean the fighters are only level 15, and the mages are wizard level 9, and they still need to go through their respective 4th class before I can turn them into archmages.

I think you need to be lower than lvl 14 to get the full bonus.

I don't think I'm much better off than a fresh party that just finished the Dark Domain.

Well, I personally noticed a huge difference first time I played BT2 and used imported characters. I skipped the Dark Domain, but the game was far too easy, so I aborted the game and restarted with fresh characters. Much more fun, and unlike BT3 quite a challenge combatwise for much of the game. At the end of the game my fighter types had severe problems even hitting enemies (which is why a Monk may be a good choice in BT2) like Saurons (I still remember them due to the name).

Dark Domain is great. First level is a bit boring, but it ramps it up quite a bit in level 2, including a cute corner with a bunch of parallel side corridors, each introducing one of the special dungeon squares. There are SP-leeching squares now, though with Mage Staves they're no biggie (yet). There is one corridor that did nothing I could detect (2nd from the West) - any idea what it's about?

You mean the "Something odd!" message? I think I figured it out back in the days, but I can't recall now, and I haven't looked it up.

Level 3 is where things got really fun. There's an absolutely crazy room full of one-way doors, with the occasional trap and dark zone, which of course makes it impossible to see the doors... glad to have the bard, I can just "flash" #7 to briefly see what's what without wasting SP. I did the same to make mapping the dark maze easier.

I gather you found a Bardsword, then, so you can "spam" The Watchwood Melody?
One drawback about it is that it doesn't reveal secret doors. (That is, I think if you start the song outdoors it works like a (Lesser) Revelation spell, but not if started in a dungeon).

What I realized afterwards is that the clue you get REQUIRES PHDO on level 1 - how do you get the clue without a lot of grinding to get the spell, if you start a fresh level 1 party?

There is a clue scribbled on the wall at the end of the long passage on the east part of lvl 1: "In areas unpassable, seek entrance by Phase Door to learn the secret of the double doors..."
So you definitely need to develop a Magician.

Speaking of which, octavius, your post above ("only characters in the last three of the seven slots are in the rear ranks and thus safe from physical attacks") is not quite accurate from what I can tell. The game doesn't seem to pick who's in range and who isn't based on slot numbers. It just picks up the first 4 and they're in melee, everyone else isn't. Even if you position your 6-man party such that slot #1 is empty, the person in slot #5 is still considered in melee. In my case it was the bard, so I didn't mind.

Oh, I tried to position characters in slots 2-7, but the game only allowed me to place them in slots 1-6. Maybe if I remove a character from slot 1 in the AG? Anyway, moot point anyway. I decided to fill out the party with monsters, so once was able to summon wolves I created a third mage. So my party now is:
Paladin
Storm Giant (from a figurine)
Fire Elemental (my lvl 1 Wizard can summon them)
Bard
Wizard (has different item restrictions than the other mage classes, and can use light armour)
Conjurer
Magician

So that should work out well untill I get the Baylor's Spellbind spell, and can enslave "bosses" in the party. I don't think the spell works if the party is full, but by then my Wizard or Archmage will probably have good enough armour to survive in the last melee slot.

Even walking into areas like the Monster Reformatory, where I expected a fight every other step, I didn't get that many (on that topic, is there anything in there? I got into the lone room at the end, but it was empty and nothing happened).

Yeah, it would have been nice if there was a special encounter in that room, but I guess the whole area (like the row of rooms at the start of lvl 3) is set up for grinding purpose.

If I recall BT1 triggers obligatory fights on the fight squares, whereas BT2-3 only have a chance of a fight. If that's the case it'd explain it, and I think I like this model a lot more. I don't know why I remembered hordes of non-stop monster fights in BT2, when this is what I got at the end of BT1 instead. If the game doesn't nosedive it'll switch positions from worst to best of the trilogy.

It's possible the encounter frequency increases in later dungeons. From what I remember it didn't increase significantly, but it has been some years...
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Taking a short break to write this. I finished the Tombs, which were great, and I am now cursing and swearing at the FUCKING DARK ZONE in Fanskar's Castle :argh: THE WHOLE THING is a dark AND antimagic zone. And I swear there are spinners in there because otherwise my map makes no sense, but of course I have no way of checking because dark AND antimagic. I hate this level. I think this might be where I quit the game the first time.
Oh and I think I'm running into anti-bard squares that cancel the songs. Cool, I don't think this existed in BT1.

Anyway I really enjoyed the tombs. Had some fun with the arrays of one-square rooms on levels 1 and 2, with that feeling of deja vu and not quite being sure at first if I'm still on the same level or not. Level 3 had the door maze, and of course the snare. I think I had all the clues for it, and as I found them I would also remember things from my first run. I panicked a bit when I realized I didn't have a Torch and knew I needed one... except of course the Old Man has a Torch! in his inventory (yeah, with the !). I don't remember what the segments do (should start experimenting) but I have the feeling they'll clutter my inventory quite a bit... I also found the clue to the next dungeon here, which makes me wonder.... DO you have to do the dungeons in order? Of course I do because each dungeon clues you on what to ask the Sage to find the next one, but I don't remember finding anything in the Tombs that helped me get into Fanskar's, unless you can't get the next segment without having the previous ones.

I also found a ton of clues on level 2 that I can't make head or tail of yet, and which I assume will be relevant later on.

Well, I had to explore the wilderness and the towns anyhow, so it seemed like a good time to do it. Not that there's anything interesting (ie not related to main quest) to find in the wilderness
Yeah I got this impression as well after mapping the wilderness. I think all but 2 of the huts are empty. I don't know what to do with the guy in one, the other is the sage (kinda reminds me of Might and Magic).

I remember CRPG Addict didn't notice the save function untill he had already collected and lost at least one of the Segments. So BT2 remains one of the few games he has not completed...
:lol Someone didn't read the manual and reference card...

Well, I personally noticed a huge difference first time I played BT2 and used imported characters. I skipped the Dark Domain, but the game was far too easy, so I aborted the game and restarted with fresh characters. Much more fun, and unlike BT3 quite a challenge combatwise for much of the game. At the end of the game my fighter types had severe problems even hitting enemies (which is why a Monk may be a good choice in BT2) like Saurons (I still remember them due to the name).
I don't care much for the combat in the series TBH, so I'd rather it not get in the way of the exploration, like it did in BT1. Besides my characters are progressing veeeeeeeeery slowly so I think I'll sooner than later catch up to what they should be. I"m still running from a lot of fights though, so that may be why leveling is slow too.

I discovered the BANE of the new distance system in combat: herbs. If one gets summoned and there's a spot for more summons, it's time to restore the game. Not because they're any threat, but because I don't think there's a way to win the fight with my party setup. A herb always summons more of itself, and always at 60'. So if I try to close in on one, it'll just summon another one another 60' away by the time I get close. If I try to kill them from a distance, I can get one down... at which point the other promptly summons a 3rd, ad nauseam. I just run when I see one now.

I gather you found a Bardsword, then, so you can "spam" The Watchwood Melody?
One drawback about it is that it doesn't reveal secret doors. (That is, I think if you start the song outdoors it works like a (Lesser) Revelation spell, but not if started in a dungeon).
I've had the Bardsword since rather early on in BT1, I think in the Temple. I've found better weapons since then, and especially now that the Bard is in melee it might be tempting, but being able to spam the songs is just too useful. I don't use it as a permanent song (I have either the AC or trap damage one running usually), but it's super useful for "flashing" light in the dark without wasting a ton of SP. In fact I should use it more often to try and detect spinners... Outside of darkness I use GRRE all the time, so I don't even know what's a real door and what's a secret door.

There is a clue scribbled on the wall at the end of the long passage on the east part of lvl 1: "In areas unpassable, seek entrance by Phase Door to learn the secret of the double doors..."
So you definitely need to develop a Magician.
Yeah I saw the clue, but I was just wondering if this meant you HAD to have a Magician at level 11 to do Dark Domain fairly. Clearly it does.

Oh, I tried to position characters in slots 2-7, but the game only allowed me to place them in slots 1-6. Maybe if I remove a character from slot 1 in the AG?
Mmm, I think what happened in my case is that one of my joinable monsters died in slot 1 and I just kept the corpse there. I didn't realize you couldn't move people otherwise. Oh and keeping the corpse is useful, makes dopplegangers a joke (I killed poor Crooked Bee my conjuror when she got doppleganged, thinking I was killing the doppleganger...). I did also notice a very nice thing with using N to reposition. If you have an NPC in slot 7, press N, press 7 then 1, it doesn't switch the characters like it usually does, it instead places the NPC at slot 1 and pushes everyone else down. Very handy.

So that should work out well untill I get the Baylor's Spellbind spell, and can enslave "bosses" in the party. I don't think the spell works if the party is full, but by then my Wizard or Archmage will probably have good enough armour to survive in the last melee slot.
.... thank you for reminding I can use the Spectre Snare to bind monsters to me. Probably including herbs too! mwahahaha.
 

octavius

Arcane
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
16,946
Location
Bjørgvin
Merde, you are playing fast! I like to take it slow and smell the the blood of my vanquished enemies and enjoy the great architecture of the dungeons.
The Tombs dungeon is trolling me, though. I'm trying to get out, but instead I'm getting sent down!
But my hunch was right; the monsters were less hairy than those inhabiting DD4. I even found a magic square, so I was able to recharge the mana. I got that "I feel I can take on the whole Empire by myself" feeling then, but things don't always change for the better, and then I was teleported down a level.

BTW, two things that annoy me:

1.The map has a typo, and I failed to answer a riddle to which I'm sure the answer should be "Philippi". I instead wrote Phillippi, since due to the typo on the map ("Phillppi) I was not sure of the spelling.

2. The spell icons don't update correctly. Both Levitate and Locate Traps expire, but their incons linger. Damned annoying!
 

octavius

Arcane
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
16,946
Location
Bjørgvin
I discovered the BANE of the new distance system in combat: herbs. If one gets summoned and there's a spot for more summons, it's time to restore the game. Not because they're any threat, but because I don't think there's a way to win the fight with my party setup. A herb always summons more of itself, and always at 60'. So if I try to close in on one, it'll just summon another one another 60' away by the time I get close. If I try to kill them from a distance, I can get one down... at which point the other promptly summons a 3rd, ad nauseam. I just run when I see one now.

Yeah, those guys are annoying.
Just spent half an hour against some colleagues of them - two Sloggoths on DD4. They start at 90' at cosntantly summon Walls. Bloody annoying, especially since my Fire Elemental can't even hit those Walls for some reason.
But once you get the Melee Men things get easier. Well, not maybe against the Herbs. In BT3 there as a Bard Song that prevented enemy summonings, but after a looking through the list of spells and bard songs I can't find anything similar in BT2.
 

hjustin

Novice
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
5
Starting BT1 today. Got my graph paper. Got the original manual from my C64 version for spell reference. I've never been so excited to play a 30 year old game.
 

octavius

Arcane
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
16,946
Location
Bjørgvin
Heh, in DOS version of BT2 it looks like when the Levitate spell expires it is the Armour icon that disappears. :roll:
 
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