The Codex’s Best Computer RPGs (pre-Diablo)

[octavius]

I remember when I was like 12 and thought it was very important to categorize games properly. For example, Diablo could not be an RPG since it had cooties.

 

[mushaden]

Having played almost none, I got

Wizardry 7 - 5 pts
BaK - 3 pts
Dark Sun: SL - 2 pts

 

[Bruma Hobo]

That top 3 shows that people are voting for the games they believe are mere prototypes of what came later, which is a shame. At least Ultima Underworld is actually a great game (arguably better than all its successors) and Dark Sun has full party creation and turn-based combat, which gives it an edge over the IE games, but Betrayal at Krondor? WTF people, it's a cute game and I quite enjoyed it, but it doesn't deserve to be neaby the top 5. Having it above Darklands, Pool of Radiance or any Wizardry game is a travesty.

What if the people voting for these games don't share your opinion that they are "mere prototypes"?

Yeah, let's pretend people are voting for what made unique and worth-playing this golden era, instead of the games that feel closer to the late 90's and early 00's times.

I kinda both get and don't get your point tbh. Yes, Dark Sun and UUW are the closest things early 90s have to late 90s RPGs - but as you've said yourself, they also blow late 90s titles out of the water, so I would say they're fairly deserving of being in the top.
With BaK, onf the other hand, I agree that it's competent but not revolutionary - but what are the games that it's supposed to be a prototype of? It's mixture of JRPG with WRPG seems fairly unique to me.

I didn't say that Underworld and Dark Sun are not worthy contenders but that they're the kind of games that people who know nothing about this era enjoy the most, and I'm talking of the kind of philistines who think of these games as primitive predecessors of their favorite popamole. Many games like Star Trail, Dragon Wars or Dark Heart of Uukrul were just as good, but they're not as recognized because they didn't have modern and streamlined successors.

And Betrayal at Krondor pioneered the "fantasy novel with combat" approach to RPGs that would sadly become the standard thanks to Bioware and SquareEnix, among others. BaK is the kind of game loved by those who don't care about having non-interactive plot segments interrupting a role-playing game, something not that uncommon at the time but only as a bug, never as a feature (except in Japan, they were doing that kind of shit from day one).

 

[dacencora]

I dunno man, just let people like what they like. Being so pedantic about “knowing the era” is kinda weird. The vast majority of these games came out before I was born. I didn’t play a single game on this list as a kid except for Lord of the Rings, Vol I. My favorites of the ones that I have played are Might and Magic III and Wasteland. I like both of them significantly more than other titles I’ve tried in this era. (Special mention to the Macintosh port of Might and Magic 1, it’s pretty cool too). My point is, you can like any game from any era and it’s cool. That’s why we’re having a vote, for people to talk about what games they liked from that era. Idk man, take a chill pill or something.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Many games like Star Trail, Dragon Wars or Dark Heart of Uukrul were just as good, but they're not as recognized because they didn't have modern and streamlined successors.

It's not about streamlined, it's about a polished UI, Realms of Arkania was almost there but the overland exploration was improved by Fallout and the regular exploration was improved by Isles of Terra.
The combat was painful too, no encounter design, empty grids, it's way worse than Fallout combat.
Add to this a bare-bones itemization and a third/half the skills being useless and I almost forgot about the camping + disease thing to keep the simulationist fags happy...
It's nothing to write home about.

Dark Heart of Uukrul now, that's probably the reason half of its players are half-blind by now.
The combat is barely better than in RoA and the Text UI loved by so many linux users only works for the most autistic among us. As a side note, i witnessed myself and autistic Australian computer engineer or something typing linux commands on his computer and getting shit done 4 times faster than I whatever you can do on PC with a mouse, that's how the player base looks like.

And Betrayal at Krondor pioneered the "fantasy novel with combat" approach to RPGs that would sadly become the standard thanks to Bioware and SquareEnix, among others. BaK is the kind of game loved by those who don't care about having non-interactive plot segments interrupting a role-playing game, something not that uncommon at the time but only as a bug, never as a feature (except in Japan, they were doing that kind of shit from day one).

The formula is interesting, as long as I can skip cut-scenes, i don't mind a bit of scenario in my RPG but the gameplay has to be good, at least ...

 

[Darth Canoli]

When they had classes and stats and multiple ways to play through multiple paths and choices and consequences? Maybe then, you stupid fuck.

So, you're saying soccer team management games are RPG you fuckwit?

Anyway, as I said earlier, a RPG is about a TEAM of adventurers, computers made it possible to easily manage the team all by yourself, that's why TB and party based is how a cRPG looks like.

RTwP games being a bastardized, hack & slash, streamlined version or the real deal.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

When they had classes and stats and multiple ways to play through multiple paths and choices and consequences? Maybe then, you stupid fuck.

So, you're saying soccer team management games are RPG you fuckwit?

No, laptop guy has no stats.

 

[Broseph]

All these games are based. You're all based. I love you all.

Shieeet, it's been so long since I played Dark Sun: Shattered Lands that I have no idea wtf I was doing in my last save game. That's kind of an issue with these older RPGs. But it was really a harbinger of the Fallouts and Baldur's Gates to come, and I think that's why it will take one of the top 3 spots in this poll. Like MM3-5, very user friendly and easy to get into for younger generations who have interest in these older games but may struggle with some of the others with more cumbersome user interfaces.

 

[Lady Error]

Anyway, as I said earlier, a RPG is about a TEAM of adventurers, computers made it possible to easily manage the team all by yourself, that's why TB and party based is how a cRPG looks like.

While I do prefer party-based RPG's, claiming that single character RPG's do not exist is just weird.

 

[Ysaye]

• Wizardry 1 - Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) - 3 points
• Ultima 7: The Black Gate (1992) - 3 points
  
• Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen (1992) - 1 point
  
• Lands of Lore (1993) - 1 point
  
• Realms of Arkania 2: Star Trail (1994) - 2 points

Unlucky to miss out: Wizardry 7, Ys: Vanished Omens, Dungeon Master 2, Magic Candle, Ravenloft: Strahds Possession, Betrayal at Krondor, Bards Tale and many of the SSI games.

 

[hakuroshi]

3 points:
Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall (Bethesda)

2 points:
Wizardry 7: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (Sir-Tech)
Exile 3: The Ruined World (Spiderweb Software)
Darklands (Microprose)

1 point:
Princess Maker 2 (Gainax) 1

Disclaimer: that's only from games which I've played and enjoyed. Odds that there are better games on the list.

 

[V_K]

BaK is the kind of game loved by those who don't care about having non-interactive plot segments interrupting a role-playing game, something not that uncommon at the time but only as a bug, never as a feature

I'm not sure I agree with that. Encounters in e.g. early Goldbox games also interrupted the game by having you read a paragraph from the manual - doesn't get more non-interactive than that. Comparatively, BaK even has fewer non-interactive segments as they mostly only come at the chapter changes. And in many ways the "fantasy novel with combat" description fits the Goldbox as well, especially given how many of them had tie-ins with official DnD novels (Azure Bonds, Krynn).
I can kiiiiinda see, if I squirt really hard, a parallel between BaK-style cutscenes and Bioware-style companion banter, but the former far more restricted, not only in the amount of interactivity (you do get a lot of dialog choices in Bioware custscenes) - but also in terms of wordiness and breaking gameplay flow. I.e. I didn't mind them nearly as much in BaK as I did in DA:O.

 

[Darth Canoli]

While I do prefer party-based RPG's, claiming that single character RPG's do not exist is just weird.

I consider it a bastardized version, a weird streamlined sub-genre for the dumb masses that can't be arsed to manage a full-party because it's too complex for them.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

While I do prefer party-based RPG's, claiming that single character RPG's do not exist is just weird.

I consider it a bastardized version, a weird streamlined sub-genre for the dumb masses that can't be arsed to manage a full-party because it's too complex for them.

Other way around, full party control is the bastardized version.

 

[flyingjohn]

There is a serious lack of ravenloft love in this thread.
Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession - 5 Points
Ravenloft: Stone prophet -5 Points

 

[Ash]

5 points to Ultima Underworld and 5 points to Ultima Underworld 2.

5 points to Ultima Underworld and 5 points to Ultima Underworld 2 also

Partly because they are great games, partly because I need to actually play more early 90s RPGs, and partly because I want to see an ARPG win this poll that is all about being "pre-the decline era of ARPGs" -- was made by people that think Diablo is the first action RPG because they never heard of games like Ultima Underworld and many other pre-diablo real time action RPGs. Diablo is trash indeed and it deserves absolutely no credit aside from being the first autist decline loot grinder, or something like that.

 

[Goral]

4 pts: Wasteland and Betrayal at Krondor
2 pts: Dark Sun: Shattered Lands

 

[negator2vc]

Where can we see the current totals (for ex. for the current top 5-10)?
Like the ones some people posted in previous pages

 

[Fowyr]

want to see an ARPG win this poll that is all about being "pre-the decline era of ARPGs" -- was made by people that think Diablo is the first action RPG because they never heard of games like Ultima Underworld and many other pre-diablo real time action RPGs.

What? No one thinks that Diablo is a first ARPG. This poll encompasses golden era of CRPGs (that ended in the end of 1992) and the first age of genre's decline in popularity. Diablo was one of the turning points, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[new fucking guy]

3 points:
Ultima Underworld
Ultima Underworld 2
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands
1 point:
Princess Maker 2

 

[Bruma Hobo]

What the fuck is Princess Maker 2? I've always thought it was just a loli JRPG for degenerates, but there are too many people with good taste voting for it.

 

[Fowyr]

What the fuck is Princess Maker 2? I've always thought it was just a loli JRPG for degenerates, but there are too many people with good taste voting for it.

Raising sim. You have a character that you level up and get one of the dozens endings.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Yeah, basically a loli jrpg for refined gentlemen :D

 

[Raghar]

What the fuck is Princess Maker 2? I've always thought it was just a loli JRPG for degenerates, but there are too many people with good taste voting for it.

It's a game that was too controversial, and publisher after it was translated to English decided to not release it in English speaking countries. Then one of programmers who translated it, didn't want publisher to shat on his work, and illegally released it as pirated version.

And since then west knows PM2 as a ONE OF THE BEST JAPANESE GAMES. (It was before Japanese become dumber and multicultural, and thus it has VERY controversial moments. Like, you can marry your stepdaughter.)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What the fuck is Princess Maker 2? I've always thought it was just a loli JRPG for degenerates, but there are too many people with good taste voting for it.

quite literally a child grooming game