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From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

Silverfish

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You can't judge each of its aspects in a vacuum.

I already have, though.

What's the point of making it a sequel to another game, if we ought to 'get over how different it is'? I might came across as asking for more of the same here, but what's so difficult about asking them to at least stay true to the spirit of its predecessor?

Because that mentality is what gets you polished, but creatively bankrupt games like Dark Souls 3. A couple of years from now, when the honeymoon period is over, we'll be comfortable saying it's the same mentality that gets you games like Elden Ring.

Reducing Artorias into merely a dollar store Capra Demon is a prestigious position here? :lol:

Apparently. Miyazaki's been praised for doing so for a decade.

Gothiccover.png

I said that DS2 is good example, not the only one. I've been following the thread long enough to pick up that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but still.

It's a cool mechanic (for you), but does it manage to do what its predecessor did?

It wasn't trying to. It'd be like saying "Michael Jordan has never scored a touchdown".

What's the point of imposing HP penalty, an increasing one at that, to hollowed players, AND still opening them up to invasions? Other than making the game more 'difficult', as the buzzword puts it?

No, difficulty and aggravating new players is the point, and there's nothing wrong with that. You adapt or play offline until you know what you're doing. It's not that big a deal.
 

Blaine

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Ds1 would be a better game if hollowing cost some of your hp. As it is, there's really not many reasons to use your humanities. Reversing hollowing basically boils down to opting into multiplayer.

The penalty for death is the loss of your souls and the soft reset of your progress through a given level.

Hollowing—essentially, a more persistent state that follows you until reversed—isn't supposed to be all bad, not a pure punishment, just as death isn't all bad (because you learned something, hopefully). Bad things about hollowing: Your character is ugly (as you know, this matters to some people), you can't kindle bonfires, you can't summon help for boss fights, and you can't place your sign to assist with boss fights, either. The latter three restrictions all tend to encourage reversal of hollowing when approaching the vicinity of a boss door.

In DS2, hollowing is all bad, and that's retarded... yet unlike DS1, PvP in DS2 can be avoided almost entirely by burning effigies on a regular basis, which can farmed by the dozens from a few areas by midgame. This while fully human and online.

I absolutely, 100% agree with you that the ability to opt out of PvP so thoroughly (in most areas) while being hollowed in DS1 is a little too much. However, people can also just play offline, read a guide for the location of secret treasures, and surface online only for co-op, or not at all. Because of this, your ability to MAKE people participate in PvP is substantially limited.

What the mechanic really needed was a middle ground. It could have been as simple as making the "PvP immunity" ablative over time. That is, for the first 15 minutes of being hollowed, you are immune from invasion; from 16-30 minutes, you are low on the matchmaking priority list; and after an hour, you're fully back to being totally "visible" to invaders. One could even go so far as to make "long-term" hollows MORE visible to invaders after two hours.

As you can see, there were other options. If I had to choose a dumb option, I would take a penalty to souls gained from slain enemies (up to -25%) over a penalty to health, because at least then the player's next journey through the level will be on an even footing, and weakened targets won't be served to already twinked-out PvPers.
 

Beggar

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A lot of time passed since release of this game. Is there original scene release anywhere? They released it on PC already patched and stuff. But the original is far more superior experience
 

Silverfish

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The easiest way that I'm aware of to play the unpatched version is on console, offline.
 

randir14

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Mar 15, 2012
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A lot of time passed since release of this game. Is there original scene release anywhere? They released it on PC already patched and stuff. But the original is far more superior experience
If you're talking about the original PC release, Prepare to Die Edition, you'll have to pirate it. It's not sold anymore.
 

Beggar

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A lot of time passed since release of this game. Is there original scene release anywhere? They released it on PC already patched and stuff. But the original is far more superior experience
If you're talking about the original PC release, Prepare to Die Edition, you'll have to pirate it. It's not sold anymore.
Nah, I'm talking about the original console version, pre patch version. Where you finish the game at level 60, not 105.
 

The_Mask

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Nah, I'm talking about the original console version, pre patch version. Where you finish the game at level 60, not 105.
At one point in the Steam forums there were people that knew where you could get this version. I think it's the same one that had the upgradable Gold-Hemmed Set, which was pretty strong, right?

I don't know where you can get that version. Sorry. Wish I could help.
 

Shrimp

Learned
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I'll choose to interpret this as them at the very least looking into whether or not the alleged RCE exploit can be done in Elden Ring. Hopefully there won't be any major issues with the online part of the game.
 

monilloman

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Playing this game made me realize how much I love interconnected central hubs with tons of backtracking (resident evil being amongst my favourite games)

Any suggestions on other 3D games that would scratch that itch? Demon souls is next in my list btw.
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
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Oct 1, 2016
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Playing this game made me realize how much I love interconnected central hubs with tons of backtracking (resident evil being amongst my favourite games)

Any suggestions on other 3D games that would scratch that itch? Demon souls is next in my list btw.

System Shock (the first one) is one of the best examples of this kind of design in 3D... well technically the engine is very advanced tile-based 2.5D but you get my point.
 

Nifft Batuff

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Nov 14, 2018
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The best Dark Souls mechanics is found in Soul Reaver.

In DS when you die, you lose part of your soul and respaw at the last bonefire and that's it.

In SR when you die, you lose part of your soul and you phase-shift in the spectral realm: the world of the deads, where everything is a deformed dual of the living world. In the spectral realm you need to fight and and collect other wandering souls in order to fill again your soul gauge. If the gauge is filled enough, then you can try find a bonefire spirit beacon, and go through it to shift back in the physical realm of the living. If you fail and loose all your soul in the spirit realm, you go to the wheel of time, a point in the centre of the world of the dead, inhabited by the Elder God.

Imagine a DS where all the place bends and transforms when you die, and in order return to the living world, you still need to combat and navigate through this world to reach a bonefire. I think this mechanics is much more interesting than the linear repetitive loop fail -> respaw at the last savepoint, repeat.

In SR, you can also voluntarily kill yourself to phase-shift and to exploit the twisted geometry of the spirit realm, in order to reach places in the living world that are not reachable otherwise.
 

MajorMace

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I love Soul Reaver but man your post make it sound like ten times better than what it actually is.
I think it actually has more in common with Planescape: Torment than with Dark Souls.
 

NJClaw

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Playing this game made me realize how much I love interconnected central hubs with tons of backtracking (resident evil being amongst my favourite games)

Any suggestions on other 3D games that would scratch that itch? Demon souls is next in my list btw.
Nier: Automata? I feel retarded suggesting it, but it's 3D and there's some sort of (unusual) backtracking...
 

Silva

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Playing this game made me realize how much I love interconnected central hubs with tons of backtracking (resident evil being amongst my favourite games)

Any suggestions on other 3D games that would scratch that itch? Demon souls is next in my list btw.
Bloodborne is as good as DS1 in this respect.
 
Joined
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Playing this game made me realize how much I love interconnected central hubs with tons of backtracking (resident evil being amongst my favourite games)

Any suggestions on other 3D games that would scratch that itch? Demon souls is next in my list btw.
Demons Souls has a very different structure. The levels aren't interconnected, they're their own thing. But there's some of the best level design in the series. I love the game, together with Bloodborne it's still my favourite From output.
 

Nifft Batuff

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I love Soul Reaver but man your post make it sound like ten times better than what it actually is.
I think it actually has more in common with Planescape: Torment than with Dark Souls.
Well, PT belongs to a radically different genre (and I don't want even start to compare the two setting)... SR not. The more I think about it and more similarities I find. The dark setting where the world has been consumed to ash, the intricate interconnected seamless levels, with total fredom of exploration and backtracking. It's incredible. And yes SR is not a perfect game, and DS is better than SR in different aspects, but paradoxically not the aspects that are commonly praised and used to define DS and the soulslikes.
 
Last edited:

monilloman

Novice
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Dec 30, 2021
Messages
53
Depends on how far back you want to go. The Legacy of Kain games have a lot of that. A fair bit of Gothic has the same thing going too.

Thanks, any particular one to start with or others to skip? (Legacy of Kain)

In SR when you die, you lose part of your soul and you phase-shift in the spectral realm: the world of the deads...

I don't really see how it enhances interconnection/backtracking but I guess I won't know until I try it. At the very least sounds interesting

ShadowMan

Nice one, never heard of it and gives me tomb raider meets doom vibes (which is nice). Already wishlisted, biggest candidate so far :salute:

Nier: Automata? I feel retarded suggesting it, but it's 3D and there's some sort of (unusual) backtracking...

Yeah, it kinda looks more like a jackoff simulator than a game and I'm not into 2D titties, thanks tho :)

Bloodborne is as good as DS1 in this respect.

If only FS would port it :argh:
 

fork

Dumbfuck!
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Oct 20, 2020
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Maybe Silent Hill, but I guess you played that if you love RE.
If FPSs are okay, Exhumed/Powerslave; older FPSs in general.

Playing this game made me realize how much I love interconnected central hubs with tons of backtracking (resident evil being amongst my favourite games)

Any suggestions on other 3D games that would scratch that itch? Demon souls is next in my list btw.
Nier: Automata? I feel retarded suggesting it, but it's 3D and there's some sort of (unusual) backtracking...

Level design is pretty bad though.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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Thanks, any particular one to start with or others to skip? (Legacy of Kain)
The whole series is a story, so, technically, you ought to play all of them in the order they were released.

That being said... you might want to just read a synopsys for Blood Omen 2. Or watch a Let's Play, if you REALLY want to. Simply because the game was:

1. meant to be played on the GameCube, and you can tell
2. it wasn't made by the original Crystal Dynamics team, and you can tell, because the story's kinda shit
and 3. because it doesn't fit your criteria much: it has action, but most of it is edgy and gory; but the levels are railroaded.

Simply for the purpose of not giving The Management a headache and trying to turn this into a LoK thread, you can either PM me, make a thread in General Gaming or just be a man and figure shit out on your own. :p
 
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