From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Crimson_Striker]

DS1 is objectively better.

Don't come into the DS2 thread just to start a flame war with this old subject. It's not productive and I don't think anyone really cares if its better or not.

Demon's Souls is the best anyway. :^)

 

[sullynathan]

DS2 has better mechanics but worse bosses and level design. It's mechanics are wasted on the game itself.

 

[Seaking4]

Dark Souls 1 doesn't really have better boss fights. It certainly has worse boss fights though. Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in the entire series, Pinwheel is by far the least interesting and easiest boss fight, and you get to enjoy fighting the same boss three times (asylum, stray, firesage). The best boss fights in the entire game are also stacked back to back to back in the DLC which means they aren't even spread out through the game

 

[Electryon]

Dark Souls 1 doesn't really have better boss fights. It certainly has worse boss fights though. Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in the entire series, Pinwheel is by far the least interesting and easiest boss fight, and you get to enjoy fighting the same boss three times (asylum, stray, firesage). The best boss fights in the entire game are also stacked back to back to back in the DLC which means they aren't even spread out through the game

This is 100% accurate. Dark Souls 1 has the Gaping Dragon, Ornstein and Smough, Sif, Artorias, Kalamet, and Manus. The rest is generally utter shit as far as boss fights go, nevermind the horrendous technical issues that plagued some of them on console. Dark Souls 2, at a minimum for great boss fights, has the Pursuer, Executioner's Chariot, the Looking-Glass Knight, Velstadt, Darklurker, Fume Knight, Alonne, Sinh, and the Burnt Ivory King. Quite honestly, I'm not entirely sure Throne Watcher and Defender is any worse or easier than Ornstein and Smough, and the gauntlet of bosses at the end at the Throne of Want in Scholar is quite stellar if you don't plan on dying or using a Homeward Bone inbetween them.

 

[sullynathan]

Dark souls 2 only has equally as many good bosses as dark souls when you count all its DLC.

At the same time, you'd be ignoring that dark souls 2 has more bosses (41) than Dark souls (26). Every time you play the former, you end up wading through far more crap bosses because you can't skip most of them

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, unlike DS1 there's no item that allows you to skip most of the bosses for when you want to speed run or get through NG+ quickly.
As far as I know, if you want to play another character or go through a NG+ cycle, you have to go through everything again.
Apparently if you have enough souls you can go straight to Drangleic castle, but that's still a lot of farming.

 

[Arnust]

As far as I know, if you want to play another character or go through a NG+ cycle, you have to go through everything again.
Apparently if you have enough souls you can go straight to Drangleic castle, but that's still a lot of farming.

Fucking around or killing the Rotten three times via Ascetics isn't really grindy. Takes an hour tops, if you struggle.

Also, ol classic "ds1 had it". The Master Key allows you to skip The Depths and Blighttown, as well as the Upper and Lower Undead Burg. What I wonder is what will you do at Queelag's at SL10 and with unupgraded weapons, but sure.

 

[Lazing Dirk]

What I wonder is what will you do at Queelag's at SL10 and with unupgraded weapons

Git Gud, of course.

 

[Teut Busnet]

Dark Souls 1 doesn't really have better boss fights. It certainly has worse boss fights though. Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in the entire series, Pinwheel is by far the least interesting and easiest boss fight, and you get to enjoy fighting the same boss three times (asylum, stray, firesage). The best boss fights in the entire game are also stacked back to back to back in the DLC which means they aren't even spread out through the game

You had a better idea who you're fighting against and why the bosses were there though.

Not defending the terrible Bed of Chaos, but DS2 also had walkover bosses like that big Jabba-Worm. And while they didn't copy-paste Bosses (although you fight Dragonrider and then Dragonrider with his Dragonrider Sniper friend) you fight 'Big Humanoid In Armor' a lot.

 

[Arnust]

Dark Souls 1 doesn't really have better boss fights. It certainly has worse boss fights though. Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in the entire series, Pinwheel is by far the least interesting and easiest boss fight, and you get to enjoy fighting the same boss three times (asylum, stray, firesage). The best boss fights in the entire game are also stacked back to back to back in the DLC which means they aren't even spread out through the game

You had a better idea who you're fighting against and why the bosses were there though.

Not defending the terrible Bed of Chaos, but DS2 also had walkover bosses like that big Jabba-Worm. And while they didn't copy-paste Bosses (although you fight Dragonrider and then Dragonrider with his Dragonrider Sniper friend) you fight 'Big Humanoid In Armor' a lot.

Which is bad, somehow. How many of the best fights in the games are "Big Humanoid in Armor", again?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Also, ol classic "ds1 had it". The Master Key allows you to skip The Depths and Blighttown, as well as the Upper and Lower Undead Burg. What I wonder is what will you do at Queelag's at SL10 and with unupgraded weapons, but sure.

Git gud. Obviously.
If some guy on Youtube can beat helkite drake at lvl1, I'm sure you can bet Quelaag at lvl10.
It also allows you to skip Tarus demon. In fact, you can go straight to the mandatory bosses with it if you know the route, and then you just have to beat sen's and you're already in Anor Londo.
Keep in mind that you can buy the master key from Dornwal of Zena. Whilst you can choose the master key as a starting gift, its really more of a"you can skip most of NG+ with this" item imo.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Dark Souls 1 doesn't really have better boss fights. It certainly has worse boss fights though. Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in the entire series, Pinwheel is by far the least interesting and easiest boss fight, and you get to enjoy fighting the same boss three times (asylum, stray, firesage). The best boss fights in the entire game are also stacked back to back to back in the DLC which means they aren't even spread out through the game

You had a better idea who you're fighting against and why the bosses were there though.

Not defending the terrible Bed of Chaos, but DS2 also had walkover bosses like that big Jabba-Worm. And while they didn't copy-paste Bosses (although you fight Dragonrider and then Dragonrider with his Dragonrider Sniper friend) you fight 'Big Humanoid In Armor' a lot.

Which is bad, somehow. How many of the best fights in the games are "Big Humanoid in Armor", again?

2 in DS1 (out of 3, though Gwyn isn't armored. And he's a bitch), 2 in DS2 (out of a lot), idk how many in DS3.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Dark Souls 1 doesn't really have better boss fights. It certainly has worse boss fights though. Bed of Chaos is the worst boss in the entire series, Pinwheel is by far the least interesting and easiest boss fight, and you get to enjoy fighting the same boss three times (asylum, stray, firesage). The best boss fights in the entire game are also stacked back to back to back in the DLC which means they aren't even spread out through the game

You had a better idea who you're fighting against and why the bosses were there though.

Not defending the terrible Bed of Chaos, but DS2 also had walkover bosses like that big Jabba-Worm. And while they didn't copy-paste Bosses (although you fight Dragonrider and then Dragonrider with his Dragonrider Sniper friend) you fight 'Big Humanoid In Armor' a lot.

Which is bad, somehow. How many of the best fights in the games are "Big Humanoid in Armor", again?

So, throwing them up against the wall and see which ones sticks is a good design now?

 

[Urbanolo]

I've finally bought SOTFS version for few dollars, after playing the original religiously when it came out (and not having played it since 2015). I don't really have the will to argue much about the game, because after seeing same shit brought up against DaS 2 for 364 pages, you kind of lose your resolve, but answer me this guys: What the fuck happened with fashion souls in DaS 3?
They all have bland colours - mostly grey/black/chrome and are boring as heck to look at. It bothered me when I played DaS 3 on release, but subconsiously I was thinking it was mostly nostalgia and they couldn't have possibly degraded the armour design for no reason. Now that I came back to DS 2, I was blown away again.
I don't know whether it's my skewered perception (fanboyism, if you will), but take a look at the direct comparison of the same sets in DS2 and DS 3 and tell me sincerely which ones do you prefer:
Exhibit A:

Spoiler

Exhibit B

Spoiler

Exhibit C

Spoiler

Exhibit D:

Spoiler

Exhibit E:

Spoiler

Exhibit F:

Spoiler

I could go on and on, add some sets I think are really cool, like Heide's set or Jester set (memetic as it is) that have no direct comparison to the sets in dark souls 3, but enough is enough. I think DaS 2 did a lot more things right, but that fucking thing - direct degradation in armour quality in the sequel, bothered me the most. Why?
(dislaimer: I might also be retarded and biased and the Dark Souls 3 sets actually look excellent and unique for everyone else, that's also an option)

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

It seems they tried to go for a more gritty and realistic approach to show off the new graphical engine, but yeah the DS2 armors look better.
The DS3 armors look like they have some sort of blur around them.

 

[Arnust]

I've finally bought SOTFS version for few dollars, after playing the original religiously when it came out (and not having played it since 2015). I don't really have the will to argue much about the game, because after seeing same shit brought up against DaS 2 for 364 pages, you kind of lose your resolve, but answer me this guys: What the fuck happened with fashion souls in DaS 3?
They all have bland colours - mostly grey/black/chrome and are boring as heck to look at. It bothered me when I played DaS 3 on release, but subconsiously I was thinking it was mostly nostalgia and they couldn't have possibly degraded the armour design for no reason. Now that I came back to DS 2, I was blown away again.
I don't know whether it's my skewered perception (fanboyism, if you will), but take a look at the direct comparison of the same sets in DS2 and DS 3 and tell me sincerely which ones do you prefer:
Exhibit A:

Spoiler

Exhibit B

Spoiler

Exhibit C

Spoiler

Exhibit D:

Spoiler

Exhibit E:

Spoiler

Exhibit F:

Spoiler

I could go on and on, add some sets I think are really cool, like Heide's set or Jester set (memetic as it is) that have no direct comparison to the sets in dark souls 3, but enough is enough. I think DaS 2 did a lot more things right, but that fucking thing - direct degradation in armour quality in the sequel, bothered me the most. Why?
(dislaimer: I might also be retarded and biased and the Dark Souls 3 sets actually look excellent and unique for everyone else, that's also an option)

Don't forget that there's a lot more of Male/Female variants of armors, namely the Elite Knight one. Arguably, of those examples, the only one that's kind of an improvement is the Dark set. In 2 it looks a bit like a Halloween costume. (Albeit it's great how the pieces are laid ut along the game, same with other sets like Catarina)

Another pretty key part of fashion souls is how you're, quite literally, gimping yourself for looks, as defense and armor does make a difference. Add to that the varying roll speeds, which make actually fine to not be just under 70%. In 3 you're slapping all that you can in under the normal roll treshold... nevermind that, quite like the Drangleic Mail/Vengarl sets, there's a "scrub" armor, it being Fallen Knight, that actually is an almost perfect set instead of the super heavy/very fucking ugly previous instances.

The main problem 3 has with this, is that half the time it's a callback, more or less direct, and the other half it's ugly or really bad sets stat wise. The most appealing are mostly in the DLCs really, nevermind how bad their stats tend to be. To note that some sets that could combine wondefully... just don't. IE Lothric Chestplate being a flat texture the model's neck is coming out of somehow. There's enough room for fashion souls yes, but having less agency about your Equip % makes a difference.

 

[Seaking4]

You had a better idea who you're fighting against and why the bosses were there though.

Not defending the terrible Bed of Chaos, but DS2 also had walkover bosses like that big Jabba-Worm. And while they didn't copy-paste Bosses (although you fight Dragonrider and then Dragonrider with his Dragonrider Sniper friend) you fight 'Big Humanoid In Armor' a lot.

The main bosses in Dark Souls 2 had just as much lore surrounding them as the bosses in Dark Souls 1. DS2 had more forgettable fights but that's just because in has more boss fights on the whole.

Big Humanoid in Armor is when the series is at its best. Most of the big beast fights lead to some series camera issues. Although DS2 has plenty of non-human in armor fights too.

Dark souls 2 only has equally as many good bosses as dark souls when you count all its DLC.

At the same time, you'd be ignoring that dark souls 2 has more bosses (41) than Dark souls (26). Every time you play the former, you end up wading through far more crap bosses because you can't skip most of them

If you don't count the DS1 DLC then the game barely has any bosses worth mentioning at all. DS2 has more forgettable bosses but it never gets as bad or tedious as DS1.

 

[praetor]

2 in DS1 (out of 3, though Gwyn isn't armored. And he's a bitch), 2 in DS2 (out of a lot), idk how many in DS3.

good DS1 bosses:
Artorias (humanoid)
Gwyn (humanoid)
O&S (humanoid)
Manus (humanoid)
Gargoyles (arguably humanoid as it's big creature fighting with a weapon, and the flying part is inconsequential to the fight)
Kalameet, if you go for the tail
Sanctuary Guardian
Quelaag (kinda humanoid, but not biped)

good DS2 bosses:
Alonne (humanoid)
Fume (humanoid)
Pursuer (humanoid)
Sentinels (humanoid)
Skeleton Lords (humanoid)
pre-patch Lost Sinner (humanoid)
Executioner Chariot
Najka (kinda humanoid, but not biped)
Smelly demon (humanoid)
Darklurker (arguably humanoid)
Sinh
Ivory King (humanoid)

good DS3 bosses:
Gael (humanoid)
Friede (human)
Nameless King (humanoid)
Champion (humanoid)
Abyss Watchers (humanoid)
Pontiff (humanoid)
Dancer (humanoid)

the "armoured" part is irrelevant as it's purely aesthetic

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Manus is barely humanoid though. You might as say Taurus demon, Capra demon and the abyssal demons are humanoids.
Technically O&S is one boss as you fight them at the same time, but I get your point.

 

[Seaking4]

The thing about Manus is he fights as a humanoid though. Even that chain attack of his is also very similar to that chain attack Gael does. He doesn't do much (if anything) in terms of moveset that makes him fight like a non-humanoid. That's why saying "humanoid in armor" is such a weird criticism to make. It's only really consequential if you get bored of the aesthetic. That's a purely subjective point but if a single Dark Souls game somehow had Fume, Artorias, Champion Gundyr, Nameless King, Friede, O&S, Pursuer, etc in it, the last thing I would ever do would be complain about the lack of variety. I would instead marvel at how ridiculously good the boss fights are.

 

[Arnust]

In the other hand, "Beast" bosses have... issues. Either the camera spazzes out because they're too frickin' big or move too fast and erratically, they have basic movesets, shitty movesets, dodgy collisions, and for some reason, lots and lots of HP. It is in fact one of the reasons why I'm kind of worried for when I play Bloodborne, whenever.

As for now, I think the absolute best Beast boss I've fought were the Demon in pain & Lesser Demon from Ringed City. The other maybe not worst, but more godawful experiences, were Midir and Storm King/Nameless Kang in the same game. Rat Authority gets close but it's inoffensive really.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the super large bosses aren't that well executed because you can't see what is going on.
Seathe, Giant Lord and Rat Authority all have this problem. Its probably why humanoid bosses are so prevalent, because those are easier to do.
Not Sif though. Sif was ok for a big beast boss.

 

[Arnust]

Yeah, the super large bosses aren't that well executed because you can't see what is going on.
Seathe, Giant Lord and Rat Authority all have this problem. Its probably why humanoid bosses are so prevalent, because those are easier to do.
Not Sif though. Sif was ok for a big beast boss.

Well, Sif and the Rat Authority are roughly the same size. The good thing about Sif is that, unlike most of his peers, he wields a sword that had the only hurtbox, so you "just" gotta whack and dodge, mostly standard procedure. Being under its legs making it almost trivial helps. And the pathos to it is great.

Giant Lord, I kinda let it pass for such a pushover that it is. Having the moves that'd devolve into The Last Giant is a decent tie in. Still a better boss than Yhorm, innit?

Kind of same goes for Seath. Quite forgettable, but not really aggravating. Unless you're going for the tail cut, that is.

 

[Teut Busnet]

2 in DS1 (out of 3, though Gwyn isn't armored. And he's a bitch), 2 in DS2 (out of a lot), idk how many in DS3.

Gargoyles (arguably humanoid as it's big creature fighting with a weapon, and the flying part is inconsequential to the fight)

The 'flying part' is not inconsequential, they hit you with the Halberd-Tail while in the air. If you lump a (fire breathing) creature with functional wings and an 8foot tail with a blade on it under 'Humanoid' you might as well count the Gaping Dragon - wich is another good Bossfight you forgot to list, btw..

And how is The Pursuer a good Boss? The only danger you're in while fighting him is you getting dizzy from strafing right, then countering.

 

[Arnust]

2 in DS1 (out of 3, though Gwyn isn't armored. And he's a bitch), 2 in DS2 (out of a lot), idk how many in DS3.

Gargoyles (arguably humanoid as it's big creature fighting with a weapon, and the flying part is inconsequential to the fight)

The 'flying part' is not inconsequential, they hit you with the Halberd-Tail while in the air. If you lump a (fire breathing) creature with functional wings and an 8foot tail with a blade on it under 'Humanoid' you might as well count the Gaping Dragon - wich is another good Bossfight you forgot to list, btw..

And how is The Pursuer a good Boss? The only danger you're in while fighting him is you getting dizzy from strafing right, then countering.

>Praises Gaping Dragon which is a classic "bait it to head butt wall and get stunned"
>The Pursuer isn't a good boss despite rather being a great mini boss

Also, the Gargoyles are a bit of a weird pick but I see perfectly how could they become two giant guards, or something. They aren't like the Maneaters who fly around playing with the steep arena (They are a pretty bad fight too, yet a standout)