Incline The Dark Triad: Dragon's Death

[Indranys]

Yep, no grid lines. Like ToEE.
The tall skeletons was a bug that cropped up. It's easily solvable so on the next gameplay video you will see NPCs at their proper scale.

Ah, I guess we can't have everything we want, can we?
Still one dislike will not taint everything about the potential incline of your game.
And please show us more than just combat.
Maybe the town/gameworld screenshots, beautiful sceneries, C&C, quests descriptions etc.
Because Chaos Chronicles has them all man.

 

[mikaelis]

How much of the game is spent crawling through gloomy looking dungeons?

It looks nice, and sounds nice mechanically speaking - but the setting and such isn't doing much for me. Gives me PoR:RoMD flashbacks, which I could do without. Is there a mix of dungeon/overworld/cities - or is it all just endless gloomy dungeon? (I always thought BG1 had a nice balance in that regard)

I have basically the same question/concern so bumping it up.

 

[Azurite Games]

How much of the game is spent crawling through gloomy looking dungeons?

When we started small 10 months ago, there was little outdoors map an most was dungeons. As the game evolved over time, and keeps evolving, the % of outdoor map is getting bigger and bigger. To put an example, reaching Vlarmor's castle won't be something immediate nor easy. There will be a huge outdoor map, mixed with dungeons and secret catacombs (we also want to reward explorer profiles, but it won't be mandatory to fullfil or visit certain content of course). The chance to have bigger outdoor maps, and i'm talking about more towns, or including really big cities, will basically depend on the funding we get. And if we include new maps, we want them to be meaningful, not filler stuff, and this applies to combat, dialogues and quests as well. During the development process we will listen to all your opinions to iron out things in this regard to provide a good gameplay experience.

And please show us more than just combat.
Maybe the town/gameworld screenshots, beautiful sceneries, C&C, quests descriptions etc.
Because Chaos Chronicles has them all man.

First of all, much respect to the guys making Chaos Chronicles and Age of Decadence, one can see this is a matter of love to the genre without any doubt.

Today we will post a new update and we will show more stuff, I hope you like it!

 

[Azurite Games]

Update 2 is ready!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1604283933/the-dark-triad-dragons-death/posts/433866

 

[Azurite Games]

We've just posted update 3: we talk about character customization and Game Story: A Law of Three in All Things.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1604283933/the-dark-triad-dragons-death/posts/434830

 

[Marsal]

We've just posted update 3: we talk about character customization and Game Story: A Law of Three in All Things.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1604283933/the-dark-triad-dragons-death/posts/434830

…the same way the electricity has a positive and a negative side, it can’t exist without a third force, a neutralizing factor. Thus a Triad is born. And a Triad generates a visible, tangible phenomenon.

Maybe I'm being overly critical or your story is so amazing and profound that mere mortals can't even begin to understand it, but you should just drop it, bro. It's obvious that you're trying, but you're way over your head and are just making it worse. It's cool, not everyone is a talented writer. Just cut out the "intellectual stuff" (i.e. stupid) and make it a generic story. Our heroes must defeat the villain and the dragon he imprisoned (with the help of mages who have ulterior motives for helping him). The dragon is a reluctant accomplice and will betray the evil dude and help you defeat both him and the mages if you manage to convince it (speech skills) or if you have completed some optional quest earlier. Twist: if you set it free, the dragon has his own agenda besides revenge for imprisonment... You get the picture. Just make it simple and focus on the combat and RPG elements.

 

[Azurite Games]

Sorry Marsal, none of the endings that you guess will occur. Otherwise it would be too foreseeable.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Not going to argue with anyone's writing until i see the finished product, although most of the stuff you guys have put out there has been a little bit on the side of "trying too hard". Low key and understated are good qualities when approaching a genre like high fantasy RPG's.

 

[Marsal]

Sorry Marsal, none of the endings that you guess will occur. Otherwise it would be too foreseeable.

I'm not guessing the endings, I'm giving you an example of a simple, generic story, that's good enough for a game you're making. Aiming high is great, but you obviously lack talent to write a good story. Not every game needs to be PS:T.

Do you really not see just how cringeworthy that electricity quote is? The rest of the story (I've seen so far) is not much better.

 

[Azurite Games]

Do you really not see just how cringeworthy that electricity quote is? The rest of the story (I've seen so far) is not much better.

This was just an example from real life that explains the existence of these three forces in nature. Could have I explained what scholars think is the meaning of the Trinity in the Christian religion? maybe yes, and it would have been more in context, but I don't think it would have made things clearer.

 

[JarlFrank]

Autoloot Games, are you guys German by any chance? I got the impression because your kickstarter page has some links to German forums discussing your game.

Also, you really need a writer with better English skills. Currently, a lot of the sentences are just broken and read like the translation of a bad Russian C-grade game published by Akella.

 

[Marsal]

Do you really not see just how cringeworthy that electricity quote is? The rest of the story (I've seen so far) is not much better.

This was just an example from real life that explains the existence of these three forces in nature.

No, it wasn't and no it doesn't. What does "third force, a neutralizing factor" do? What are the other two forces? Do you even know what a force is?

You get tangled in explanations that read like something from a cult pamphlet and show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you the writer or are you just a member of the team? Are you all using this account?

I like your game and I'll play it when it gets finished. But your story is ME 3 level bad from what I've seen so far. It's stupid, makes no sense and attempts to clarify are stupid and make no sense. Maybe it gets better and there is something in the story that connects everything into a coherent whole. Please be certain that's the case and that you know what you're doing, before dismissing my criticism. From my perspective it doesn't look like you do.

 

[Azurite Games]

Hi JarlFrank,
We are from different countries: US, UK, Spain, France...

I suppose you refer to update 2 mainly, we couldn't have it proofread and there were many typos that cropped up, which is pretty bad. Could you also point me out to any specific text that you could say it's badly written, please? Depending on the guy who writes the texts we send them to a translation agency, and maybe they are not doing their proper job, dunno.

 

[Azurite Games]

No, it wasn't and no it doesn't. What does "third force, a neutralizing factor" do? What are the other two forces? Do you even know what a force is?

You get tangled in explanations that read like something from a cult pamphlet and show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Why you say this? I do not doubt about your knowledge but at least explain why it does not. When you ask this way if I do know what force is, you are almost implying I do not know, and believe me, even if I knew, I wouldn't in your opinion, so no need to get entangled in sterile debates. And before making this a public show, if you want, we can talk in private about the topic, this will mean you are really interested in what a force is rather than trying to impose your views.

I like your game and I'll play it when it gets finished. But your story is ME 3 level bad from what I've seen so far. It's stupid, makes no sense and attempts to clarify are stupid and make no sense. Maybe it gets better and there is something in the story that connects everything into a coherent whole. Please be certain that's the case and that you know what you're doing, before dismissing my criticism. From my perspective it doesn't look like you do.

I never dismiss any criticism, believe me, if for many the story sounds stupid, it may be. Also, I don't disregard what others say are the good points of it. For me, the story is essential, as it's my job to make it good enough, with the resources available to us, for backers as you that paid for this game to be made, so they can truly enjoy it (many thanks btw).

The thing is that I apparently don't have the skills to write the story directly in English (yes, I'm the writer, and I must say I'm not a native American), and this is what I've been doing since the start of the project, as we are not CD Projekt and can't afford to pay a translator to make the dialogues sound as good as they should (our plan was to hire an editor/proofreader, that's not as expensive). And this might have been a big mistake and I don't have any problem in accepting it if this is what most of the people say.

So what we will do, if we meet our funding goals, is renounce to my basic salary to hire a good native American writer (and when I say I have a salary assigned to myself, it's the basic not to live under a bridge, we are not asking for more than what we need, this I can swear. Luckily I will be paid something from unemployment that will help to raise a little bit more what we would pay to the guys). I also want to let you know that we are also contacting with some support guys to help us write side quests. But first, it will be a matter of finding a really good writer that can take the lead. Even though, like it or not, the plan for the game design layout and story is what it is and it must be executed in a certain way (i don't mean not letting the writers to be creative, but there are key characters and the steps of the main story arch are already defined, we can't just throw all the work done away as it would mean doubling the development time). If we had more money to make a complete new IP where all is completely original, we would make so, but that's not the case.

 

[Marsal]

Please don't go starving on my account. This is the Codex. Don't overreact to anything you read here. I may have been too harsh, but I think harsh is good if it makes you think and reconsider. Examine what you're doing and if you still think everything is fine, go for it! I meant what I wrote earlier. Maybe the story really is good and makes perfect sense when translated properly and seen in its entirety. Maybe just "streamline" things a bit. Edit the story and cut the excess and unnecessary parts. Make motivations clear. Take into consideration that your world is high fantasy and magic is important part of the setting (is it?). That sort of thing.

Mentioning electricity and force in the same sentence, makes one think of the concept of force in Physics. There are 4 fundamental forces as we understand it, although they may really be "aspects" of the same force (TOE). That's why I asked you to clarify. I presume you didn't have these forces in mind when you wrote that?

I don't know the whole story or the process behind it, I'm just telling you that what you've shown so far is not very good (to put it mildly). You're wasting resources on things that don't matter (in comparison to other elements of the game). Your ambition may be to make the next Arcanum or Baldur's Gate 2, but it should be to make the next ToEE first, IMO. ToEE had a simple story and great combat. If it wasn't as buggy and had they made it just a bit more interesting (by improving Hommlet or cutting Hommlet and improving the rest), it would have been a great game.

My point is that your scope is out of sync with your budget and talent. Focus on the gameplay in the first game. Focus on fewer well made dialogues and quests. Show us that you know how to make a game. After your first game is a success and you have experience, tools and money, make a bigger game with sprawling and complex quests and story. If you overreach and mess up the first game, there may not be a second.

I'll refrain from further comments, I shouldn't have posted anything in the first place. I'm just wasting time, I really shouldn't be wasting. Good luck with the game!

Oh, and just a heads up: "native American" probably isn't who you're looking for

 

[JarlFrank]

Hi JarlFrank,
We are from different countries: US, UK, Spain, France...

I suppose you refer to update 2 mainly, we couldn't have it proofread and there were many typos that cropped up, which is pretty bad. Could you also point me out to any specific text that you could say it's badly written, please? Depending on the guy who writes the texts we send them to a translation agency, and maybe they are not doing their proper job, dunno.

Some examples from the kickstarter page:

The Black Warrior is an herculean beast during the battle, with amazing skills to destroy and crush the enemy mercilessly.

First off, it should be "a herculean beast" not "an herculean beast", and "during battle" not "during the battle". Those are very little things, but they make it noticeable that the game is not written by a native English speaker, and if there's a translator at work he's not doing a good job.

The Elite Thief can move along the battle field with sobrenatural skills and he can use mystic tatoos to raise his chances of survival.

Battlefield is written as one word, not as two words. "Sobrenatural" is not a word at all, you probably wanted to say supernatural. Tattoos is written with two t.

If you just didn't have the time for proofreading, that's okay if the writing in the game is better. This just has too many mistakes though, and if this is actually the work of a professional translator I suggest you to stop working with him and hire someone else.

 

[Overboard]

it should be "a herculean beast" not "an herculean beast", and "during battle" not "during the battle".

Well actually 'an herculean' is correct as well, if somewhat less common in usage these days. During the battle is also fine.

HOWEVER I agree that the writing is pretty shit, and I mean bad fanfic level shit. Which is a shame because it won't be the first group of devs in love with their own DEEP EPIC STORY, not realising that they should perhaps focus on doing what they're good at.

 

[Grunker]

During the battle is also fine.

No? It is clearly refering to the general concept of being in battle. The Black Warrior isn't just a herculean beast during a single, specified battle

But yeah, writing sucks. I don't care much, though, but Marsal had an excellent point.

 

[haen]

Long time lurker, I've just registered to give some thoughts.

First, what Marsal said. Rethink your position and your strengths. A story as described looks cliche so keep it simple (but believable) and put your efforts elsewhere. A graphics looks great - hell, for a few seconds I thought its from BG2 and even if that game isn't universally acclaimed on Codex its graphics is praised neverthless. If you manage to translate a feel of the Infinity Engine games into 3D - more props for you. Go for a proper TB combat - people here would kill for such feat. Me not so, but that's ok. It looks that you have a team and a tech in place. Don't be overambitious and give itself a chance to deliver.

Second, it would be nice to get a Linux version but do not stretch your resources here.

Third, I've just pledged £30. You need more exposure and something to catch people attention. We have a overabundance of (kickstarted) RPGs due to those all high profile projects like Project Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera and Wasteland 2 so maybe your timing was a bit off. But we need RPGs developers and we need RPG of various scope and type - combat oriented, story oriented and C&C oriented, 3D, isometric and blobbers. Give us a bugfree ToEE without a cringeworthy story and dialogs and we will acclaim your work.

Good luck.

 

[norolim]

[...]
My point is that your scope is out of sync with your budget and talent. Focus on the gameplay in the first game. Focus on fewer well made dialogues and quests. Show us that you know how to make a game. After your first game is a success and you have experience, tools and money, make a bigger game with sprawling and complex quests and story. If you overreach and mess up the first game, there may not be a second.[..]

These are words of wisdom. Please take what you read in that post into consideration Autoloot. Even if I'm not ready to comment on your collective talent, based on the little material I've seen so far, I agree with everything else. Your ambitions seem to be way too big for a small team and budget you have. The story you described, regardless of its quality, is too gargantuan for 1-2 writers to flesh out within any reasonable period of time. So I echo Marsal: scale down, concentrate more on the gameplay, make this aspect great & use a less complex, better designed story. This is your first game, after all. Nobody is going to blame you for not making it a bloody Planescape: Torment the first time out.

Shame it's a bit too late for all that, as your vision has already been presented in the kickstarter.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Looks nice, but, the kind of just "standing around waiting for you to hit me" AI really stopped me from pledging right now. I put a reminder on the KS for the future.

Zep--

 

[ghostdog]

Marsal said: ↑

[...]​

My point is that your scope is out of sync with your budget and talent. Focus on the gameplay in the first game. Focus on fewer well made dialogues and quests. Show us that you know how to make a game. After your first game is a success and you have experience, tools and money, make a bigger game with sprawling and complex quests and story. If you overreach and mess up the first game, there may not be a second.[..]​

These are words of wisdom. Please take what you read in that post into consideration Autoloot. Even if I'm not ready to comment on your collective talent, based on the little material I've seen so far, I agree with everything else. Your ambitions seem to be way too big for a small team and budget you have. The story you described, regardless of its quality, is too gargantuan for 1-2 writers to flesh out within any reasonable period of time. So I echo Marsal: scale down, concentrate more on the gameplay, make this aspect great & use a less complex, better designed story. This is your first game, after all. Nobody is going to blame you for not making it a bloody Planescape: Torment the first time out.

Shame it's a bit too late for all that, as your vision has already been presented in the kickstarter.

I completely agree with the above. After watching the pre-kickstarter story presentation, I too thought your story was a bit too "epic" and out of proportion. (I could also add high-fantasy-juvenile-cliche, but judging just from the summary isn't right). At least that's how it sounded. Tight design concerning story/gameplay is the most important thing.

I pledged for this for because I really liked the way it looks and the TB combat. The story didn't really do it for me. Sadly, it doesn't seem like it's going to make it. People can trust big names in kickstarter without even a basic pre-production in their pitch, but when it comes to small unknown developers, they need immensely more to go with, especially now that we get one kickstarter after another.

 

[Azurite Games]

Hi guys,

Marsal, I appreciate some insights on your last post, you didn't waste your time. And also thanks everyone here for your comments, that's the constructive sincerity i needed to hear to realize some important things so we are able to take the proper course of action.

We've also been talking with some PR agencies and they point out to the same issues some of you mentioned here. Besides, there's the Pax and Gdc and two big projects out there we can't compete against. But most important, the fault is ours as we haven't done some things as best as we could. We rushed. Sometimes you need to suffer the faiil to learn things out from it.

The truth is that we are struggling to pay the team, and hence the rush. But it was a bad decision. We will come back, i don't know if better and stronger, but with a more clear vision and more pragmatic.

Thanks again,

 

[Grunker]

Hi guys,

Marsal, I appreciate some insights on your last post, you didn't waste your time. And also thanks everyone here for your comments, that's the constructive sincerity i needed to hear to realize some important things so we are able to take the proper course of action.

We've also been talking with some PR agencies and they point out to the same issues some of you mentioned here. Besides, there's the Pax and Gdc and two big projects out there we can't compete against. But most important, the fault is ours as we haven't done some things as best as we could. We rushed. Sometimes you need to suffer the faiil to learn things out from it.

The truth is that we are struggling to pay the team, and hence the rush. But it was a bad decision. We will come back, i don't know if better and stronger, but with a more clear vision and more pragmatic.

Thanks again,

 

[Minttunator]

Good luck, Autoloot Games! There aren't a lot of developers who can take constructive criticism without getting butthurt over it.