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The Ending of PST

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Quetzacoatl, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. procrastinator Arcane

    procrastinator
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    I was more put off by the fact that you can actually equip this sword :lol:
     
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  2. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    Deidre in the Adventurer's Mart sells PST-themed items. She was only available in the collector's edition initially, but they added her in a ToB patch.
     
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  3. Breaking Axe Educated

    Breaking Axe
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    You're mixing campaign setting, the Wall is a feature unique solely to the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. In the Planescape setting there is no Fugue overseen by Kelemvor (Well not exactly, since all prime materials planes connect through the shadow plane... you'd probably have to die on Toril to really be drawn to the Fugue)
     
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  4. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    Yeah, even more moronic "The Karach sings true" - my ass. :decline: - In the hands of Dakkon it always felt like a huge mystery for me , you can actually equip it in BGII? oO BioWare truely are the worst assholes ever imagineable.


    @ Breaking Axe - as I have never completed NWN2 - is there any lore in that game I missed when it comes to TNO, or that wall what was mentionend? I won't play NWN2 (the engine....) but I wouldn't mind some spoilers, please.
     
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  5. thesoup Arcane

    thesoup
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    IIRC, Avellone said there's a girl who's a branch of Ravel in NWN2. She's blind or something like that.

    From what I've understood, TNO did a crime so big that even if he spent his entire life being holier than Jesus, he would still go to hell, i.e. the blood war. His crime was so great that all of his thousands incarnations' crimes were but a drop in an ocean compared to his first incarnation's crime. It's never mentioned what that crime was, but from what I've read, it's something that is causing the planes to slowly die.

    I don't think even Avellone thought of what that crime was, but just put it there. If we all suddenly found out what it was, we would inevitably be disappointed because there's just too much hype around it, just like with TNO's name. I really wouldn't have it any other way.

    Avellone said he wanted to make other Planescape games (not sequels, of course) and even had plans for them. Who holds the license nowadays anyway? Is it Atari?

    Oh and one more thing. Wikipedia says it's Morte who told TNO to seek out Ravel. How does whoever wrote that know that? It's never explicitly said and for all we know, it might have been long after he became immortal. Pointing him to Ravel would also be the truth so wtf?
    Yes, I know Morte says he told a lie which got someone killed and that he has a feeling that it was TNO, but like I've said, what's written in wikipedia doesn't make sense.


    edit
    Oh and from what I've understood, TNO got his scars from the blood war so I'd say he was a merc there at some point. I'd really like another Planescape game where TNO gets some mention. Maybe even a quest which hints at his involvement in something at some point.
     
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  6. ghostdog Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    ghostdog
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    What of the original incarnation? There was an advisor, whose lying advice wrought betrayal. Hints of a contract signed. A crime was committed, one so awful the acts of all future incarnations are as nothing compared to it. The crime itself is unknown, save the implication that the planes are still slowly dying because of it. He sought help of the night hag Ravel Puzzlewell, to grant him immortality, so he could escape his punishment and perhaps atone for his crime. And for love of him, Ravel granted his request, stripping his mortality from him. But a dreadful price was paid, since although the death of the body was no longer permanent, it did injure the mind, and memories were forgotten. Thus were born many incarnations, each starting with only fragments of memory of past existences. 


    Since the 4E scrapped Planescape altogether it's highly unlikely there will ever be another planescape game. But look at the bright side... we'll never get a Bethesda "sequel".
    :rage: :yeah:



    I don't think this has ever been written in the game or said by any of the developers. Only the hint that morte my have killed TNO, or even played a part in TNO's original crime. Probably wikipedia editor bullshit.



    This isn't explicitly stated anywhere. It could be also from the Lady's blades. One incarnation lead a revolt in what was then the prime ward, opening all the gates in the ward to the lower planes using an artifact known as the Shadow-Sorcelled Key. The Lady of Pain finally crushed the revolt, I'm sure she punished TNO somehow.
     
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  7. Satan Educated

    Satan
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    well, your party might be wiped out at the end of PST. I mean you may revive them, but that's just one of the endings.

    anyway i don't consider BG/IWD series to be in the same setting as PST. I mean I know they theoretically are, but the worlds are just too different to work together.
     
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  8. thesoup Arcane

    thesoup
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    Would it be cool if TNO was the reason the blood war started?

    @ghostdog
    Where's that quote from? I don't remember it.
    Also, I remember a quote in the game saying TNO bears the scars of one who fought in the blood war, so that's why I thought that's where his scars are from. Some uber fights and spells which didn't allow his regeneration to kick in properly. Made sense in my mind.
     
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  9. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
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    You also buy it in a shop :) . It's with one of the special vendors that you have to download, the one that deals with PST stuff. I guess the only way they could make it more banal was that if you took a shit and then th toilet overflowed, and you had to use a nearby plunger. After all the shit goes away, you glance upon the tool in your hand. Upon close inspection, you realize it's not a plunger, but a weapon of sorts.

    Then again, it's non-canon so you can see it as an easter egg.
     
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  10. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The "items from other games" shops in BG2 were obviously jokes. Sheesh.

    There was an Icewind Dale shop too, in the tavern IIRC. It's weird in retrospect how close Bioware and Black Isle were back then.
    Nowadays you get Dead Space armor DLC ("Sir Isaac of Clarke")
     
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  11. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    Kaelyns bitching made me assume that you went to the Fugue plane even if you weren't in Toril.
     
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  12. CappenVarra phase-based phantasmist Patron

    CappenVarra
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    4th edition - what 4th edition? there is no such thing :smug: TNO is still in the Blood War, and will remain there eternally... Feel free to come up with fanfic saying otherwise :)
     
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  13. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    What do you mean, that they are connected? That one is the origin of the other?

    Don't think so, we get a pretty complete picture of the origin of the spirit eater curse in MoTB, and it doesn't have to do anything with TNO, afaik.
     
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  14. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    I believe he's saying that TNO is the spirit eater whos great crime was succumbing to its hunger.
     
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  15. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    No, because in the NWN2 OC the githzerai you get refers to Dakkon. The events of NWN2 occur AFTER the events of Torment.
     
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  16. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    Time travel?
     
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  17. Conkrete Knight Educated

    Conkrete Knight
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    I always thought a possible crime would be the creation of coaxmetal, as he if I remember correctly, is the weapon ment to end everything, waging war on existence itself.

    This is of course a guess and certainly nowhere near canon.


    I also raged over the Zerth-blade in BG2, yes it is a sort of easter egg, but still, it should not be able to even maintain its form without a mind to keep it in shape.
     
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  18. CrazyLoon Prophet

    CrazyLoon
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    But isn't the Zerthblade only available when you preordered the game?
     
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  19. Stinger Arcane

    Stinger
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    Akachi lead the crusade years (hundred? I can't remember the actual number) before the NWN2 OC and there have been many spirit eater incarnations before the player character.

    It would be a stretch (different settings and whatnot) but it could kinda fit in a fanfic sort of way.
     
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  20. Breaking Axe Educated

    Breaking Axe
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    I can't recall any direct references to TNO in MotB, although the celestial companion may have mentioned something, at least in the OC there's some references to Dak'kon as Dicksmoker notes. That said the entire plot of MotB felt like a Torment rehash, insofar as it is about an introspective journey of self-discovery across the planes, you just replace one plot device with another (TNO's immortality and history, the spirit eater's nature and origin). You also have the spirit eater being confronted with the past crimes of his previous incarnations, just as you do in Torment.

    The problem with mixing FR with Planescape lore is that the petitioner system doesn't mesh well with the other. In FR, the dead go to the realm of their patron god after briefly stopping in the Fugue, so long as they generally adhered to their god's dogma, those that deny the gods go to the wall as the faithless, and those that betrayed their god's tenets serve Kelemvor in the Fugue as clerks or something. As such, you can have situations like a LE fighter who served Torm going to the celestial planes upon death. In Planescape the faith of an individual is almost irrelevant, its alignment that's the key. Lawful evil becomes a petitioner in one of the lawfully aligned lower planes, neutral good goes to the beastlands etc. The petitioners' essence slowly merges with their new plane, and I think some, but not all become native creatures.
     
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  21. attackfighter Magister

    attackfighter
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    No, I think one of the ToB patches adds Dierdre regardless of pre-order.
     
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  22. Overweight Manatee Scholar

    Overweight Manatee
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    I go with evil ending of MotB -> original incarnation of TNO. Sure there are inconsistencies, but there aren't any other real clues and the MotB ending is one of the few methods we know of that are drastic enough to eternally piss off all gods in existence. Keep in mind that half the D&D Panthenon are evil gods who would be perfectly happy to offer TNO an escape if all that he did was running around burning down planes for the lulz.

    This works for me.


    Also fuck 4th ed. Its not canon, sorry.
     
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  23. Surf Solar cannot into womynz

    Surf Solar
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    Could you elaborate on that? I played MotB briefly but couldn't bear the engine/camera, so I wouldn't mind spoilers. I'd be extremely interested to know what happens there. :)
     
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  24. Quetzacoatl Liturgist

    Quetzacoatl
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyJ6iheshZc
     
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  25. Overweight Manatee Scholar

    Overweight Manatee
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    Show Spoiler
    Not to spoil too much of the game, but the ending has you give into the spirit eater curse and control it. Its stated that you are unkillable by Kelemvor and presumably by most other gods, since it is impossible to destroy an "empty" thing. Kelemvor's further words are (paraphrased) "By your very existence you declare war on the planes. The gods will hound your steps forever and you will never know peace". Normally souls of the dead go either to the wall or to the gods in a very wheel-of-life thing, but the spirit eater is able to actually consume the soul outright which is an absolute abomination to everything in the universe (think of the spiritual equivalent of violating the conservation of energy). He expects that all of the gods, the planes, and everything will eventually die leaving you alone.

    Ending slides says that many gods combined their might to confront you after your destructive rampage became great enough. Kelemvor mentions that he was not part of that battle, but that many gods were destroyed and that you had vanished, most likely to a place the gods can't reach. Presumably, something like PS:T's Sigil.


    By the way, play MotB.

    Overall, one of the best endings to a game I know of. Especially as an "evil" ending, which is normally just the tacked-on selfish path to the "real" good ending.
     
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