The Gothic Trilogy...

[MasterSmithFandango]

Long time listener, first time caller here.

I've been fiending for a new rpg lately, but I have yet to pick up the Gothic games. I've researched it a bit, and it seems like it might be a solid RPG with decent C&C and things of that nature, but I was curious as to what the opinion of the Codex in general is of the series? Is it worth picking up?

For reference, I've knocked out a lot of RPGs from the late 90s era on, such as FO 1/2, PS:T, BG 1/2, Arcanum, etc.

 

[Sodomy]

Gothic series is cool if you can handle the actiony combat. I haven't played the first, but the second isn't really an RPG as much as it is an action-adventure with some RPG elements. It's got a linear main quest with multiple ways to accomplish many tasks and even the occasional consequence- most of the consequences relate more to the loot and character progression than the story. Gothic 3 is kind of like Ultima 7 interpreted as an Action RPG with shitty combat. It's a better, RPG, although probably not as good of a game (I may be in the minority here, but I really like the combat of G2, and it's too big of a chunk of the game to simply dismiss). It has a non-linear main quest, and, I'd argue, a more responsive world.

I will say this- most people will disagree with me, but G2 is MUCH better without the expansion. The expansion raises the difficulty level of the whole game- not just the expansion areas- to the point where extreme powergaming is needed. It's a shame, given how good the expansion area content is.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

I only played the third and it's pretty much Oblivion which will slow down and chop no matter what settings you use. So if you want that kick yourself in the balls instead.

Admittely all the games in the seriesare quite different, so you could try the first two.

 

[Sodomy]

Last time I checked, Oblivion didn't offer 3 different ways to resolve the main quest, sidequests that could be handled multiple ways with differing consequences, faction reputations that actually affected the services and treatment you got from various characters, and didn't allow you to kill any NPC in the world. But hey, if you want to be ignorant, that's your choice.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Who gives a shit? It's still a TPP action RPG. And I'd rather have no C&C at all than KOTOR-like shit.

 

[Kraszu]

Just try a demo of first Gothic from world of gothic.

 

[Texas Red]

I tried Gothic 1 but it appears the have the worst character system in any RPG. The setting was dull, simple and without inspiration, so I was disappointed after hearing everyone praise those aspects. Maybe there is a good game somewhere but I really couldn't muster the strength to go through those fed ex quests. Being able to create a character would help to ease in to the game.

 

[Kraszu]

I will say this- most people will disagree with me, but G2 is MUCH better without the expansion. The expansion raises the difficulty level of the whole game- not just the expansion areas- to the point where extreme powergaming is needed. It's a shame, given how good the expansion area content is.

Yes I would advice to play G2 first, and then play it whit expansion.

 

[Kraszu]

Who gives a shit? It's still a TPP action RPG. And I'd rather have no C&C at all than KOTOR-like shit.

You don't understand the difference between point of view, and combat type?

gothic combat is not like kotor or bg at all.

 

[Jeff Graw]

Gothic 1 > Gothic 2 > Gothic 3

only the first one is really a masterpiece, but they're all good games. Even the third one is a million times better than any Elder Scrolls if you can get it running decently.

 

[RainSong]

Gothic 1 > Gothic 2 > Gothic 3

only the first one is really a masterpiece, but they're all good games. Even the third one is a million times better than any Elder Scrolls if you can get it running decently.

I'm not a big fan of Morrowind (got bored and didn't finish it) but saying that G3>Morrowind is just lol.

 

[Heresiarch]

Compared to G1, G3 is a bug-ridden, system-hogging, plagued-with-extremely-long-loading-time Oblivion With A (much) Better World Design. But frankly, playing Oblivion gave me much less headache than G3. But Daggerfall is still the best.

 

[Volourn]

"saying that G3>Morrowind is just lol."

Yet, it's true. R00fles!

 

[JarlFrank]

Gothic 2 was my favourite of them all and it's a really fun game. The world seems very alive, especially the town, combat is deadly [especially early in the game] and some quests offer multiple solutions. It's really worth playing, and while most people say the combat was horrible, I really enjoyed it, but sometimes it can be hard as fuck. Try not to be a hero in the beginning stages and don't take on enemies that are too hard for you. Don't even try to fight groups of enemies. You'll most probably die.

 

[Stauff]

Even under most exquisite tortures I will never proclaim Morrowind or Oblivion to be on par with Gothic series.

Just like constructive comrades told you in case you can bear/like Gothic combat system it's a wonderful, excellent, rewarding and extremely well done universe. Even now it's graphics, AI, world design are on par with modern RPG titles. Yes Gothic 3 was a mixed bag but I more or less can say that it was an unpolished gem than a load of crap.

So yes indeed Gothic series is one of the best RPG experiences you can have, so I wholeheartedly recommend you G1->G2->G2 NOTR (it's much more fun to try first G2 and then G2 NOTR) and then may be G3 (I think new patches will be available at this time

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Good example for an idea stretched at least one game too far. The first Gothic game actually had an idea behind it, and a decently intriguing one at that: think Carpenter's Escape From New York in medieval Europe.

The mechanics are sound enough, and though smaller in scope and not quite as deeply simulated, it's amongst the closest you'll get to an Ultima VII in full 3D. The second game - which is very well totally enjoyable up until an almost unbearable lategame cookie cutter filler dungeon - expands on that, at least in terms of pure technical stuff. But it is all totally tacked on. It's a sequel for the sake of there being a sequel. Evident from the get-go and its killer monologue that goes on and on and on about how you, the hero resurrected (check) are supposed to go find ancient artifacts (check) to kill the evil dragons. Like: all of 'em (check).

All of that said, the Gothic games are more of an example of honest craftsmanship rather than brilliant genius. The first game in particular was made by a very small team, and that's a noteworthy achievement in and on itself.

 

[Pseudofool]

Never played Gothic 1, but I played Gothic 2 (and it's add-on--make sure to install both before playing or you'll have to start over with if you want the add-on content). I'm a fan of Gothic 3 as well and really just didn't have the problems other had, and my computer is going on four years old.

I like the Gothic series, it's a different take than the FO/BG type RPG games. It's openworld in that you can run as far as you can see, and not scaled--I like story and setting, though it takes some getting use to. Combat is really easy once you figure out how to strafe-attack, etc. But you'll die often early on. I like the skill-tree in that you need to find trainers and trainers for cool and advanced skills are hard to find. Gothic 2 had a much better story, but Gothic 3 has a much bigger set of skills, a beautiful world, a neat reputation system, and some interest C&C where you can actually see our choices make a difference (i.e. if you free a rebel city from the Orcs, humans actually move in...).

I played the game backwards starting the third one and working backwards. Gothic 2 is dated, but I had a fun time, just about six months ago.

 

[Nedrah]

Whenever a thread like this comes up and people compplain about the setting of G1&2, G2 gets to be called a "tacked on sequel" or someting along those lines and people seriously complain about the combat, especially in 2, I quite seriously have to wonder wether we played the same games, and if so, wether they really could have lost THAT much in translation. Simply calling them action rpgs doesn't do either of them any justice - action'ish combat does not warrant that tag alone, there's just so much more to the whole experience one can have. Yes, the gothic 1 control scheme is confusing and basically a nuisance in the beginning, but it also is highly effective once one gets used to it. I can't even begin to comprehend whatever could be wrong with G2's controls. The world, again especially in G2 and it's expansion (and yes, NOTR truely expands the world, instead of indeed tacking on some content like so many other "expansions") has so many things to do, it feels like it's living and breathing. The combat is not bad at all, I believe the problem would rather be that most people can't get over the fact that the world and its inhabitants are extremely deadly to the nameless hero in the beginning and stays that way for the better part of the game. Exploring that cave or those deeper woods has you alert and will have you go from exploration mode to "Oh SHI..!" survival mode in a second more than a few times. A lot of quests have multiple solutions. G2 may be linear, but you still get that pretty open world (which just keeps opening up) to play with, not to mention that there's a good chance that most people won't care about the linearity, since it just flows in a way that feels natural and because of the brilliant way the chapter systems keeps things interesting in most, if not all locations.

I won't bother with G3, there are a lot of oppinions available already about why it is or isn't a good game. What I will say is that I believe it lost most of the core qualitys that I praised above and as such I'm not sure how happy I am about it being called a Gothic. I'm not even talking about all the technical fuckups here.

Play G1 if you feel like it, no problem if you don't. But G2+Notr is a true masterpiece and everyone who doesn't give themselves the chance to really get into it is missing out the same way someone's going to miss out if he doesn't play PS:T because he read somewhere that combat isn't all that great and there's a lot to read.

In conclusion, to all G2 haters: Go grow some nerd-balls, whipe away those "buhuhu the evil wolve killed me again " tears and learn to appreciate this awesome game and its possibilities for what it is (see above).

 

[ghostdog]

G1 and G2-NOTR are both great games and far better than Bethesda's games. In the genre of the free roaming - action - rpg , they're the best , because apart from having a very well designed world , they have a great setting, good story and characters and interesting combat. Unfortunately G3 is vastly inferior in all aspects.

 

[jaylittle]

G1 and G2 absolutely rock. I didn't know they made a third game. Wasn't G3 just some crappy mod team project? Oh wait... I guess not.



It looks like G4 is going to be more of the same crap that we got unloaded on us in G3. That ought to be fun. Not. G3 was easily one of the outright worst games I've ever actually played and beaten. The combat system was exquisitely bad and for a game that required hours of combat, this was just unacceptable. The choice and consequences were largely meaningless and only contributed to deciding which portion of the cookie cutter ending segments you got to saw when you won.

**** SPOILER ALERT ****

About the only good thing I can say about G3 is that for a large portion of the game, I was dedicated to killing Xardas. That was my goal. Hell that goal probably got me through the game on my second try. But when I actually found him, I was impressed at how the game managed to suddenly make the events from G2 and G3 fall into place in such a way that killing Xardas was no longer on the list of things to do.

Beyond that - it's a horrible game. It has a lot of potential. But the poor combat destroys it as you will have to slaughter legions of wild animals and humans/orcs before the game is completed. The first time you realize that a boar in the forest can kill you just as quickly whether you are wearing no armor or full plate, that is when the game takes a serious drop. The first time you realize when you attempt to take on a group of undead at one of the many ruins in the desert, that you'll either be spending the next hour drawing them out one by one or have to give up because fighting three or four at once is pretty much an instant death, you'll suddenly stop caring.

Amusingly out of the three times I attempted to play this game, I only finished it once. The other two times ended somewhere in the desert...

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Well, thanks for all the feedback.

I think I'm going to roll the dice and pick up the threepack on amazon (it's like 25 bucks or something). The action-y combat doesn't really bother me that much.

Question about the numerous technical issues, especially when concerning 3. I'm one of those people that for some reason had a hell of a time getting The Witcher to run properly (I finally beat it in the end, but I was dealing with a crash about every 30 minutes towards the end there). Am I to expect the same amount of headaches with 3, or even more?

 

[Nedrah]

Expect fun things like regular crashes, massive slowdowns even on a high-end system, a completely broken combat system and an uninspired clusterfuck of a main quest.

Get the first two games along with the NOTR expansion and forget about the 3rd game. Not worth your money.

 

[Raapys]

Gothic 1 > Gothic 2 > Gothic 3

only the first one is really a masterpiece, but they're all good games. Even the third one is a million times better than any Elder Scrolls if you can get it running decently.

Dot.

Well, I think I might prefer a heavily modded Morrowind to G3, but other than that I agree completely.

Gothic 1 is as good as action/adventure RPGs get.

 

[Heresiarch]

Can anyone spoil the plot or the ending of G3? I really can't bring myself to play that game without pulling my hairs out yet I'm quite interested in the plot.

 

[WalterKinde]

Avoid the 3 disc collection at all costs unless you don't have the first two Gothics.
Thanks to the idiots putting the wrong type of copy protection on the Gothic 3 disc (there should have been none) using certain dvd-rom drives (damned if i know which kinds) the game will refuse to properly install, then if you somehow pass that mark you have to IMMEDIATELY get the Gothic 3 Patches to remove the drm from the game since the game will refuse to run claiming you do not have the original Gothic 3 disc in the drive.
They really fucked up Gothic 3 in that collection.