The Guild Wars 2 Thread

[Black]

What about mesmers?

 

[Excidium]

They're a real pain in the ass. No amount of gap closers is enough to stick to them.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I played for about two hours, I don't want to play more because I prefer not to be spoiled too much.

Beautiful, beautiful game, with lots of interesting ideas to remove the tedium of MMORPGs. No need to pay monthly now when you have such a gem.

It was more choppy than I thought on my GTX 570, but maybe it will improve in the final version. For now though, it's Risen 2 time.

 

[Average Manatee]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

 

[Excidium]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

What the hell is with those comparisons?

 

[Average Manatee]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

What the hell is with those comparisons?

OK, I'll scale it to your level.

GW2 is an action game where you run around and pew pew things while trying to dodge the pew pew from enemy players. GW1 is a game based around planning a build that synergizes with teammates and counters likely enemy builds. The former has a lot in common with H&S games like Diablo except GW2 is a 3rd person MMO instead of an isometric. The latter has a lot in common with the card game Magic: The Gathering, where the focus is on the interaction of abilities to form a build from a limited set of choices, except that it plays from a real time 3rd person perspective.

 

[Mangoose]

No, you don't run around trying to dodge things. You have to conserve your dodge to use at the right moments.

Also I'm pretty sure GW1 is more about positional strategy and tactical usage of builds rather than the planning of builds themselves.

 

[Black]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

What the hell is with those comparisons?

He's butthurt about D3.

 

[Average Manatee]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

What the hell is with those comparisons?

He's butthurt about D3.

There's nothing wrong with H&Ss in general and I merely mentioned D3 because it has a distinctly similar skill system. But for GW2 to go that direction is very sad.

 

[Berekän]

Also I'm pretty sure GW1 is more about positional strategy and tactical usage of builds rather than the planning of builds themselves.

Both things were needed, strategy and tactics in the battle meant nothing if you had the wrong set of skills.

Guild Wars 2 PvE takes away most part of the deck building. You no longer have to coordinate with the other players or bots to have the appropriate skills before going to the adventure, they wanted to make the game beatable by every kind of char and player, and they've acomplished it, everyone can take care of himself at any given moment. However, that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park, you still have to use your skills wisely if you want to acomplish anything, play dumb and you'll end eating dirt most of the time.

The events are amazing, and they come to show off how everyone must contribute to succeed in the objective. Again, if everyone plays dumb, everyone will get wiped (and I've seen a lot of wipes) it's not Diablo in that you can clicckity clicckity and beat everybody, everything applies here, you must learn when to dodge and when to use your skills, pay attention to your companions, fall back and take a moment to recover and rez your allies...

In short, they've made the PvE experience more enjoyable for the lone wolves out there but still fun if you want to teamfight. I think they've said sometime they're gonna have instanced dungeons, my guess is you will require skill and party planning there. Don't be fooled, even though any char can be kind of a Jack of all trades in this game, there are still certain roles that shine in some area. They've said multiple times that they're not gonna have dedicated healers but you just have to take a look at the Guardian to realize that he can roll like a monk from the original GW, he will be very useful for protecting teammates.

Also, the competitive PvP is gonna benefit a lot from the more dynamic gameplay. Tactics and strategy are still going to be required but there's gonna be a lot more of micromanaging in battle that's gonna make things more interesting. Make sure you put the wall of fire in the right spot so your ranger can shoot fire arrows. Dodge that crippling shot and block the gateway so the enemy warrior can't fall back...

In short, they might've dumbed down the skill system a bit, but they've added a new layer of skill that might make the gameplay more rewarding for every type of player.

 

[Mangoose]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

What the hell is with those comparisons?

He's butthurt about D3.

There's nothing wrong with H&Ss in general and I merely mentioned D3 because it has a distinctly similar skill system. But for GW2 to go that direction is very sad.

No, it's not sad. It's not sad that designers might just want to create a different type of game for the sequel instead of being obligated to follow the whims of certain fans. What is important is how well that new design goal is implemented, and the soundness of the new design goal.

So whether or not GW2 is sound in design and implementation is a much better discussion topic.

Both things were needed, strategy and tactics in the battle meant nothing if you had the wrong set of skills.

Except strategy and tactics have a much higher skill ceiling (infinite, as you compete with other players) than building a set of skills. Everything is needed - a keyboard is needed, a mouse is needed - but being needed does not mean it is the core of the system.

 

[Average Manatee]

So basically GW2 is Diablo 3: The MMO (except without Blizzard's jews behind it) rather than GW1's Magic:The Gathering in real time? Meh, pretty solid but it still looks OK for some mindless fun. Real PvP (i.e. not horde shit vs horde shit) looks like its going to be pretty bad though, as with all MMOs.

What the hell is with those comparisons?

He's butthurt about D3.

There's nothing wrong with H&Ss in general and I merely mentioned D3 because it has a distinctly similar skill system. But for GW2 to go that direction is very sad.

No, it's not sad. It's not sad that designers might just want to create a different type of game for the sequel instead of being obligated to follow the whims of certain fans. What is important is how well that new design goal is implemented, and the soundness of the new design goal.

So whether or not GW2 is sound in design and implementation is a much better discussion topic.

It's sad for the players that instead of continuing with the very unique mechanics of GW2 we have retreated to the safety of uninspiring MMOs. Sure, GW2 might turn out to be the best MMO yet, but just how high of a bar is that to beat?

Both things were needed, strategy and tactics in the battle meant nothing if you had the wrong set of skills.

Except strategy and tactics have a much higher skill ceiling (infinite, as you compete with other players) than building a set of skills. Everything is needed - a keyboard is needed, a mouse is needed - but being needed does not mean it is the core of the system.

Every game has those things though. I mentioned the build planning because the difference in build intricacy are what separates GW from other games like it. Furthermore, strategy and build planning are pretty much intertwined.

 

[Mangoose]

It's sad for the players that instead of continuing with the very unique mechanics of GW2 we have retreated to the safety of uninspiring MMOs. Sure, GW2 might turn out to be the best MMO yet, but just how high of a bar is that to beat?

Or maybe GW2 has mechanics that are unique from BOTH GW1 and typical MMOs? What makes you think that just because it is different from one game it has to be the same as another game?

 

[Angthoron]

Also I'm pretty sure GW1 is more about positional strategy and tactical usage of builds rather than the planning of builds themselves.

Both things were needed, strategy and tactics in the battle meant nothing if you had the wrong set of skills.

Guild Wars 2 PvE takes away most part of the deck building. You no longer have to coordinate with the other players or bots to have the appropriate skills before going to the adventure, they wanted to make the game beatable by every kind of char and player, and they've acomplished it, everyone can take care of himself at any given moment. However, that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park, you still have to use your skills wisely if you want to acomplish anything, play dumb and you'll end eating dirt most of the time.

The events are amazing, and they come to show off how everyone must contribute to succeed in the objective. Again, if everyone plays dumb, everyone will get wiped (and I've seen a lot of wipes) it's not Diablo in that you can clicckity clicckity and beat everybody, everything applies here, you must learn when to dodge and when to use your skills, pay attention to your companions, fall back and take a moment to recover and rez your allies...

In short, they've made the PvE experience more enjoyable for the lone wolves out there but still fun if you want to teamfight. I think they've said sometime they're gonna have instanced dungeons, my guess is you will require skill and party planning there. Don't be fooled, even though any char can be kind of a Jack of all trades in this game, there are still certain roles that shine in some area. They've said multiple times that they're not gonna have dedicated healers but you just have to take a look at the Guardian to realize that he can roll like a monk from the original GW, he will be very useful for protecting teammates.

Also, the competitive PvP is gonna benefit a lot from the more dynamic gameplay. Tactics and strategy are still going to be required but there's gonna be a lot more of micromanaging in battle that's gonna make things more interesting. Make sure you put the wall of fire in the right spot so your ranger can shoot fire arrows. Dodge that crippling shot and block the gateway so the enemy warrior can't fall back...

In short, they might've dumbed down the skill system a bit, but they've added a new layer of skill that might make the gameplay more rewarding for every type of player.

Very much this. The possibilities are amazing with this new system. I've spent hours lone-wolfing (and roflstomping occasionally), as well as duo/trio-playing in PvE and there's a lot of things to be done in order to actually play well. It's quite amazing really. Positioning matters, and not just in a "Park yourself over here, then stabby stabby tanky tanky" of the current generation of MMOs. I suppose some might not like it so much, since it takes away from, as it was said, deckbuilding, and using five toolbars full of skills, tons of macroes and other such things to make the most use out of yourself, but to me, this is great. If I want to have a macro/rotation skills, I'll always have WoW and its clones. This, however, is something that I've wanted for a long time. The combat system is solid and it works like a solid system should. And it's fun! Even for people that have played a healer for the last 5 years.

Also, I have to say that there are lots of nice world and character-building details that have been sadly missing from most games. A norn huntress with a penchant for making statues? And you even get to see her working on the statues and not just be told? C&C (not sure about the second C yet though, only the first so far - there ARE choices to make in personal story!)? Interesting politics/espionage story as Ash Legion Cat-Cows? I'm frankly horrified at the amount of time it seems I'll sink into this game.

 

[Berekän]

Both things were needed, strategy and tactics in the battle meant nothing if you had the wrong set of skills.

Except strategy and tactics have a much higher skill ceiling (infinite, as you compete with other players) than building a set of skills. Everything is needed - a keyboard is needed, a mouse is needed - but being needed does not mean it is the core of the system.

Reductio Ad Absurdum. Yeah, in any real time game raw skill during the action takes the prize, a highly skilled player > a low skilled player obv. but the set of skills played a BIG factor in the game, remember the famous lamebuilds? The toucher ranger, the signet monk, all the people were butthurt that they required no skill to play and yet they were huge pubstompers.



Also, what Angthoron said. The world is just awesome, in the Charr personal quests you get to choose your companions, there are missions in which you can choose your aproach, the first time I knew that specific norn was into statue-making was because I saw the statues being made in her house, not because I was told so by some info dump char. The game has some really interesting storytelling vibes (here's hoping the history they manage to tell becomes actually good, unlike the vanilla game).

 

[Mangoose]

Both things were needed, strategy and tactics in the battle meant nothing if you had the wrong set of skills.

Except strategy and tactics have a much higher skill ceiling (infinite, as you compete with other players) than building a set of skills. Everything is needed - a keyboard is needed, a mouse is needed - but being needed does not mean it is the core of the system.

Reductio Ad Absurdum. Yeah, in any real time game raw skill during the action takes the prize, a highly skilled player > a low skilled player obv. but the set of skills played a BIG factor in the game, remember the famous lamebuilds? The toucher ranger, the signet monk, all the people were butthurt that they required no skill to play and yet they were huge pubstompers.

Do I need to repeat myself? I did not say that skill build does not matter. I said that it is not the number one priority - not the core - in GW1 play. You speak of pubstomping but I speak of higher level play.

 

[Berekän]

I put up that specific example because it should be easier to understand in a much forgiving threshold how a good build it's as, or even more, important than skill. Since you want to talk of higher play then give the 1st team the bad starter builds and the 20th team a good optimized build, skill is worthless with a suboptimal build, how can't it be a core factor of the game then?

 

[Average Manatee]

It's sad for the players that instead of continuing with the very unique mechanics of GW2 we have retreated to the safety of uninspiring MMOs. Sure, GW2 might turn out to be the best MMO yet, but just how high of a bar is that to beat?

Or maybe GW2 has mechanics that are unique from BOTH GW1 and typical MMOs? What makes you think that just because it is different from one game it has to be the same as another game?

I suppose I can't judge it properly until I've finished it at least 7 times then?

 

[Machine]

Didnt read whole thread but can anyone confirm/deny this :

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/28104-cash-shop-items-leak/

If this is legit looks like it will be full blown f2p crap in no time.

 

[waywardOne]

Unless someone successfully counters this, I'm buying.

Very much this. The possibilities are amazing with this new system. I've spent hours lone-wolfing (and roflstomping occasionally), as well as duo/trio-playing in PvE and there's a lot of things to be done in order to actually play well. It's quite amazing really. Positioning matters, and not just in a "Park yourself over here, then stabby stabby tanky tanky" of the current generation of MMOs. I suppose some might not like it so much, since it takes away from, as it was said, deckbuilding, and using five toolbars full of skills, tons of macroes and other such things to make the most use out of yourself, but to me, this is great. If I want to have a macro/rotation skills, I'll always have WoW and its clones. This, however, is something that I've wanted for a long time. The combat system is solid and it works like a solid system should. And it's fun! Even for people that have played a healer for the last 5 years.

Also, I have to say that there are lots of nice world and character-building details that have been sadly missing from most games. A norn huntress with a penchant for making statues? And you even get to see her working on the statues and not just be told? C&C (not sure about the second C yet though, only the first so far - there ARE choices to make in personal story!)? Interesting politics/espionage story as Ash Legion Cat-Cows? I'm frankly horrified at the amount of time it seems I'll sink into this game.

 

[Black]

Not trusting 2006 and newer users

 

[Mangoose]

Not sure if anyone specified, but if you use an attack out of range, it will let you use that attack, and waste that attack. Including melee attacks. The only way it tells you that you are in range is if the number on the hotkey turns from red to white, but there is no other indication except for targeted AOEs. For PBAOEs, cones, etc., there is no overlay indicator, IIRC.

 

[Shannow]

Fuck the haters. Touchy rangers were fun. If you're butthurt about touchy rangers you're a thirteen year old with chocolate milk running from your nose. And if you couldn't figure out a skill to shut down a touchy ranger you're a five year old who's still breastfeeding


Coming back to GW2: How's the twitchiness? Anybody who doesn't like twitchiness having problems?

 

[Black]

Touchy rangers were indeed fun, especially if you're a mesmer with Diversion.

 

[Ulminati]

It's sad for the players that instead of continuing with the very unique mechanics of GW2 we have retreated to the safety of uninspiring MMOs. Sure, GW2 might turn out to be the best MMO yet, but just how high of a bar is that to beat?

Or maybe GW2 has mechanics that are unique from BOTH GW1 and typical MMOs? What makes you think that just because it is different from one game it has to be the same as another game?

I suppose I can't judge it properly until I've finished it at least 7 times then?

4 races, 8 professions. You gotta finish it at least 32 times before you can judge it.

also, now that the NDA is lifted, I can finally say I love the fuck out of the weapon kit skills. I haven't done enough theorycrafting to figure out how they scale compared to picking up a level-appropriate weapon, but I have many love for flamethrower, grenade kit, minelayer kit, the druglord gun etc.