Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Wyrmlord]

Might and Magic games occasionally introduce the sort of stuff that belongs more to children's educational software.

eg.
puzzles based on completing famous quotes and idioms
passwords based on naming famous real world personalities
general knowledge questions
et cetera

Very very strange. I believe there was a vocabulary puzzle tower in MM5. Were these meant to be children's games?

 

[hanssolo]

The first two games in the franchise are incredibly difficult. In fact, MM1 is broken in such a way that you won't finish it without looking up spoilers. And if you're against spoilers I hope you know your US Government History lessons. My advice is skip MM1 and 2. They aren't worth the pain unless you're just one of those people that HAS to experience everything.

Don't listen to this. MM1 is a bit iffy, but MM2 == MM3/4/5.

 

[octavius]

Personally I thought MM1 was great and I only played it the first time half a year ago. Yes, it's very difficult in the beginning, so I receommend using the pre-generated party since they already have some equipment and weapons, and it's gonna take a long time to roll better characters. Explore the first town and the first outdoors area first to get more experience.

For MM2 you can transfer your MM1 characters. They will be reduced to lvl 7 and stats over 20 will be reduced to 20.

 

[Excidium]

Personally I thought MM1 was great and I only played it the first time half a year ago. Yes, it's very difficult in the beginning, so I receommend using the pre-generated party since they already have some equipment and weapons, and it's gonna take a long time to roll better characters.

Can't you just give all the starter equipment to one or two of the pre-generated characters, generate your party and then trade the items to your characters?

 

[octavius]

Personally I thought MM1 was great and I only played it the first time half a year ago. Yes, it's very difficult in the beginning, so I receommend using the pre-generated party since they already have some equipment and weapons, and it's gonna take a long time to roll better characters.

Can't you just give all the starter equipment to one or two of the pre-generated characters, generate your party and then trade the items to your characters?

Sure, that is possible.

 

[Jocund]

The first two games in the franchise are incredibly difficult. In fact, MM1 is broken in such a way that you won't finish it without looking up spoilers. And if you're against spoilers I hope you know your US Government History lessons. My advice is skip MM1 and 2. They aren't worth the pain unless you're just one of those people that HAS to experience everything.

I'm of the belief that enduring through the bad of a series will cause greater appreciation for the good. Or something.

For the record, I'm quite enjoying the first one at the moment, but that could be just that the "yay new game" feeling hasn't worn off yet. My exposure to games from this era is rather limited as well, so it's an interesting experience just for that sake.

For another record, I just loaded the game up and forgot how loud my volume was from not having headphones plugged in earlier. The intro music was equally epic and deafening.

 

[DaveO]

I'm of the belief that enduring through the bad of a series will cause greater appreciation for the good. Or something.

Let us know how enduring thru the bad works out for MM9.

 

[Sceptic]

In fact, MM1 is broken in such a way that you won't finish it without looking up spoilers. And if you're against spoilers I hope you know your US Government History lessons. My advice is skip MM1 and 2.

Why do you lie? Thousands of people finished MM1 when it was released without spoilers. The CRPG Addict finished it not too long ago also without spoilers. You might need to spoil yourself for some of the sidequests (I admit I never managed to figure out the "encounter the 13" by myself, but you don't need the prize to do anything else in the game), but those are optional anyway. There are LOTS of hints on how to complete the MQ, usually duplicated too just in case you miss one or the other; in fact the Gold decoded message is supposed to tell you how to finish the game, but by the time you get it you should've already pretty much figured it out. Also, what US Government History? I don't remember a single instance in either game (definitely not in the first) where this would be required or even useful. MM1 is awesome, fuck the haters. Although I do agree MM2 was a big step down in most aspects, though JVC more than redeemed himself with 3.

puzzles based on completing famous quotes and idioms
passwords based on naming famous real world personalities
general knowledge questions
et cetera

Aside from a single proverbs puzzle in MM5 (whose solutions could be found in the same dungeon), and maybe the (optional and completely derp) crosswords puzzle, I don't remember any examples of any of these. Unless you count Star Trek as "general knowledge" Also, I generally consider MM5 to have the weakest puzzles in the entire series, and it's a good thing the rest of the series' are more fun and interesting.

Personally I thought MM1 was great and I only played it the first time half a year ago.

You have successfully added octavius to your BRO list.

For the record, I'm quite enjoying the first one at the moment, but that could be just that the "yay new game" feeling hasn't worn off yet.

Or it could be that Nael is wrong and the game is in fact great

 

[Luzur]

Personally I thought MM1 was great and I only played it the first time half a year ago. Yes, it's very difficult in the beginning, so I receommend using the pre-generated party since they already have some equipment and weapons, and it's gonna take a long time to roll better characters.

Can't you just give all the starter equipment to one or two of the pre-generated characters, generate your party and then trade the items to your characters?

this is how i always do it.

 

[octavius]

I'm currently playing MM2 with the victorius pre-generated party transferred from MM1.

I have explored Middlegate and its dungeon, most of Sandsobar and part of its dungeon, and parts of Tundara. So far my party has only died once - in the Sandsobar arena, thanks to my old arch enemies: the dreaded Crazed Natives. These insane fuckers do up to 48 damage to each of your characters, they have high speed and they bring lots of brothers, cousins, and uncles with them. Doing a Google search I found that the only one whining about the Crazed Natives was myself.
Apart from the one death I've had to run thrice: from a group of Jugglers, a large group of Woodsmen and I had to Time Distort my way out of of the Sandsobar Cavern after meeting a large group of Mounted Horsemen.

MM2 has much of the same problem as MM1 when it comes to spells - most are useless. Just about the only ones you can rely on are the damage spells and Heroism. And spells like Immobilize and Web may be useful. But I've never noticed any effect from spells like Invisibility, Shield (never ever stops enemies from shooting) and Bless (seems to actually decrease my chances of hitting).

All in all the game seems pretty balanced for a party from MM1.
The only areas I remember is Middlegate and its dungeon, so it's almost like playing it for the first time. :D

 

[octavius]

Anyone tried the Frenzy spell in MM2? If facing 255 enemies, will the affected character be able to kill them all, or just the first 10?
And is the one point loss of Endurance permanent?

 

[DeveloperDude]

MM1 is awesome, fuck the haters.

 

[Luzur]

Anyone tried the Frenzy spell in MM2? If facing 255 enemies, will the affected character be able to kill them all, or just the first 10?
And is the one point loss of Endurance permanent?

spell AFAICR affect all the enemies in a row, if its not a target spell.

 

[Gregz]

Anyone tried the Frenzy spell in MM2? If facing 255 enemies, will the affected character be able to kill them all, or just the first 10?
And is the one point loss of Endurance permanent?

In late-game, try to get your hands on a 'Star Bow', that plus the duplicate & recharge spells = massive game breakage.

I remember when my party leveled up past 255 (every party member spamming a star bow vs. 255 Time Lords, Cuisinarts, etc.) to level 1. I think that was my first introduction to 8-bit integer memory fields. I panicked at first (I was 15), but noticed that my HP and MP kept incrementing, so all was well...albeit confusing .

 

[Sceptic]

You would still lose the extra attacks per round though, and they're a big factor in damage output for non-spellcasters at high levels.

Speaking of integer memory fields, there was a nasty bug in MM3 that never got fixed, where NWC forgot to set the XP range for Arena victories to an all-positive range (ie, the range of possible values was -32768 tp +32768 instead of +0 to +65536). So, instead of 33,000 XP on your 33rd victory, you'd get -32768+(33000-32768), and so on for every victory afterwards. Which meant that for a good while you were LOSING XP when winning Arena fights.

Now that I think of it... we've got a bunch of monocled programmers on here. Anyone thinks they can fix this kind of bug?

 

[octavius]

Anyone tried the Frenzy spell in MM2? If facing 255 enemies, will the affected character be able to kill them all, or just the first 10?
And is the one point loss of Endurance permanent?

In late-game, try to get your hands on a 'Star Bow', that plus the duplicate & recharge spells = massive game breakage.

I remember when my party leveled up past 255 (every party member spamming a star bow vs. 255 Time Lords, Cuisinarts, etc.)

I can't imagine playing so long that you get to lvl 255, even when I first played it.
With a lvl 255, party were you able to defeat the Mega Dragon?

 

[octavius]

Just finished MM2:

Damned, what a long game!

Anyone tried the Frenzy spell in MM2? If facing 255 enemies, will the affected character be able to kill them all, or just the first 10?
And is the one point loss of Endurance permanent?

spell AFAICR affect all the enemies in a row, if its not a target spell.

Yeah, it only affects the 10 monster on the screen so it's useless. :-(
I had two indoor fights, one with 80 Wizards and another with 40 Sorcerors, where I thought Frenzy would have saved the day, but when I later got hold of it I learnt it was indeed useless.
When you face 40-80 high level mages or Master Ninjas who are speedier than your speediest party member, things get difficult. I actually found out that the Entrapment spell could be a lifesaver in these battles if most of the 10 monster on screen are not too tough. Then you only have take damage from 1-3 high level mages or Master Ninjas each turn, instead of 10.

Speaking of integer memory fields, there was a nasty bug in MM3 that never got fixed, where NWC forgot to set the XP range for Arena victories to an all-positive range (ie, the range of possible values was -32768 tp +32768 instead of +0 to +65536). So, instead of 33,000 XP on your 33rd victory, you'd get -32768+(33000-32768), and so on for every victory afterwards. Which meant that for a good while you were LOSING XP when winning Arena fights.

Seems to be a similar (as in numbers getting screwed up) bug with the Turn Undead spell in MM2 too. It doesn't work after your Clerics and Paladins have reached about lvl 16. I have ruled out it failing due to alignment shift, which could happen in MM1. I never saw any alignement shifts in MM2, though, except from the Magical Landslides in the Ice Cave.

I also noticed that the game does indeed scale to your level to a great degree. But it also scales by area. Not sure about the excat mechanics, but when eploring the dungeons of the various castles I noticed that after each time my party leveled I'd face new, higher leveled creatures. The Square Lake dungeon seemed to be completely random, and you could face anything from Inept Wizards to 16 Orc Gods. How do you beat 16 Orc Gods, who each have 50K HP, when your party is only lvl 33? Mass Distortion did 12K damage, but even that is not enough.

Anyone know any other fixed encounters that leave Doomsday Boxes, except from the Cat from Hell and the 3 Cuisinarts? I didn't explore the whole map so may have missed some. Was a bit disappointed that the best item I ever found was a +31 Sword form a random encounter leaving a Stasis Box. The Cat from Hell left to +24 items and the chefs only one +12 item. I had much better items when I first played on the Amgi20 years ago, but I may have fought the Cat several times back then.
I thought the Ancient Dragons in Dragon's Dominion would leave something awesome, but no; only more useless gold.

 

[Jaesun]

Congrats octavius!

Off to play III?

 

[octavius]

Congrats octavius!

Off to play III?

Thanks!

Will be some time before I play Isles of Terra. MM2 was the last of the 1988 games I've been (re)playing, so now it's on to 1989.
This is my current playlist. I haven't sorted them chronlogically yet, though.

Drakkhen
Keef the Thief: A Boy and His Lockpick
Sleeping Gods Lie
Castle of the Winds
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A Hero
Knights of Legend
The Magic Candle
Mars Saga
Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud Nebula
The Dark Heart of Uukrul
Sword of Aragon
Tangled Tales
Dragon Wars
Chaos Strikes Back
Sword of Twilight

I'm looking forward to replay CSB, CoAB, CotW and Sword of Aragon, give Dragon Wars another try, and for the first time play Hero's Quest, Knights of Legend, Magic Candle, Starflight 2 and Uukrul. I'm a bit unsure about the rest, but will give them a try.

 

[Jaesun]

HOLY MOTHERFUCKING INCLINE octavius.

You sir, are a real BRO.

 

[octavius]

HOLY MOTHERFUCKING INCLINE octavius.

You sir, are a real BRO.

He he, it does say something about the game industry these days that I'd rather be retro-gaming.

 

[Jaesun]

HOLY MOTHERFUCKING INCLINE octavius.

You sir, are a real BRO.

He he, it does say something about the game industry these days that I'd rather be retro-gaming.

Agreed. And your playing games by the year they came out sounds like a really fucking cool idea...

 

[Ruprekt]

Congrats octavius!

Off to play III?

Thanks!

Will be some time before I play Isles of Terra. MM2 was the last of the 1988 games I've been (re)playing, so now it's on to 1989.
This is my current playlist. I haven't sorted them chronlogically yet, though.

Drakkhen
Keef the Thief: A Boy and His Lockpick
Sleeping Gods Lie
Castle of the Winds
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A Hero
Knights of Legend
The Magic Candle
Mars Saga
Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud Nebula
The Dark Heart of Uukrul
Sword of Aragon
Tangled Tales
Dragon Wars
Chaos Strikes Back
Sword of Twilight

I'm looking forward to replay CSB, CoAB, CotW and Sword of Aragon, give Dragon Wars another try, and for the first time play Hero's Quest, Knights of Legend, Magic Candle, Starflight 2 and Uukrul. I'm a bit unsure about the rest, but will give them a try.

Stuff like drakkhen are worth seeing... but not playing through when there are 9 gold box games, 4 magic candles and 5 quest for glories. Starflight 2 is superb of course.

 

[octavius]

HOLY MOTHERFUCKING INCLINE octavius.

You sir, are a real BRO.

He he, it does say something about the game industry these days that I'd rather be retro-gaming.

Agreed. And your playing games by the year they came out sounds like a really fucking cool idea...

I actually thought about doing it before reading CRPG Addict's blog, but he showed that it was possible. I have been become more interested in CRPG history (partly thanks to RPGCodex and Matt Barton), and playing them chronologically is a good way of getting a feel of how games developed, something I wasn't very conscious of at the time the games were actually released.
And I find that it's much easier to decide which games to play when I make a list.

 

[DaveO]

MM6 and MM7 are currently tied on the votes. I'd like some posters to break the tie. Of course, the voting is still a bit imperfect when MM9 almost beats the combined votes for MM1 and MM2.