Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[groke]

Go to Darkside after killing Xeen/before trying the Dragon Cave.

 

[Luzur]

here are some World of Xeen sound/music tests between different soundcards so you can compare.

 

[Jaesun]

That's not an actual Roland Sound Canvas. There is a difference (the first video).

 

[Aeschylus]

Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but all of the Might and Magic games (and HoMM) are 50% off this weekend on GoG. So, the first 6 games for $5.

 

[Jaesun]

Nice. And M&M VI includes M&M I to VI which is sweet.

 

[Sceptic]

The Sound Canvas version does sound great and I would love to play it with that. The problem is: I don't own one (and don't really want to spend money on it)

I got mine for $90, and that was because it was an mkII. The regular SC-55 goes for around $50, which is the price of one game. Just keep that in mind if you change your mind.

I use Win 7 and the soundfont I found that was based on the Sound Canvas had the telephone ring as well. So that leaves me with either the SoundBlaster or the MT32. You're going to hate me for this: I still prefer the SoundBlaster.

Regarding the soundfont, as I said there is no such thing as a Sound Canvas soundfont. Those that claim to be are lying. It's why I find the SC to be an essential component of my retro gaming, even moreso than the MT-32: it can't be emulated in ANY way. You could argue (well, Jaesun does ) that Munt doesn't sound as good as a real MT-32, but at least it's somewhat comparable. And if you're on Win7 then Virtual SC won't work (believe me, I tried!). And... well, I don't hate you, but personal preference is what it is I guess. After hearing Roland sounds I can never go back to any OPL music unless the game doesn't support anything else. But in general I don't like the Cloudside music that much anyway. Darkside is awesome though.

Oh, and a short question: Should I finish the CoX part of the game first and then switch over to DoX? Or can I mix it up a bit without having to worry about balancing issues?

Preferably don't mix and match. You can leave the entire NE part of Cloudside (with lava and everything) for later on, but preferably finish everything else, and definitely deal with Xeen. It also makes more sense storywise.

 

[octavius]

What's with this obsession about MM music? I heard two seconds of the MM3 music before I couldn't stand it anymore and turned it off.

 

[groke]

What's with this obsession about MM music? I heard two seconds of the MM3 music before I couldn't stand it anymore and turned it off.

But you didn't hear it through a CM-32L!!

 

[Jaesun]

What's with this obsession about MM music? I heard two seconds of the MM3 music before I couldn't stand it anymore and turned it off.

But you didn't hear it through a CM-500!!

Fixed and agreed. Here is an example (sorry for the shitty low volume).

 

[octavius]

Yes, that was much more comfortable. The default music in MM3 is like hearing a tone deaf 3 year old going berserk on a xylofone.
Still, I prefer to turn music off in games as long as there are sound effects. And for old game with no sound at all I instead listen to some "real" music.

 

[Sceptic]

What's with this obsession about MM music?

It's awesome?

I mean didn't you hear that sweet wilderness theme I posted? Or the atmospheric as hell dungeon themes? Are you going to make me go back and record even more themes to be convinced?

And let's not even go into MM6-8 music...

(I do put my own music for games that have none, and will turn off music entirely if it sucks, but then very few good games have sucky music, and with sucky games with sucky music you'd want to skip them anyway so that's not an issue)

But you didn't hear it through a CM-500!!

Fixed and agreed.

How're those buggy vibrato and noise floor working for you?

(do you even hear either?

 

[Jaesun]

But you didn't hear it through a CM-500!!

Fixed and agreed.

How're those buggy vibrato and noise floor working for you?

(do you even hear either?

FUCK YOU elitist prick! Just because you DO have an actual Sound Canvas and I have the lowly CM-500!



EDIT USER IS A MORAN: Actually I don't notice that supposed buggy vibrato. Do you? Maybe if you get some time and could record, we probably could compare the intro of III with a real SC compared to the CM-500 one.

Perhaps if you get some time we could compare the intro if MM IV (I THINK that was specifically Sound Canvas? or is it V?) and compare the SC vs the CM-500 one.

 

[MMXI]

Yes, that was much more comfortable. The default music in MM3 is like hearing a tone deaf 3 year old going berserk on a xylofone.
Still, I prefer to turn music off in games as long as there are sound effects. And for old game with no sound at all I instead listen to some "real" music.

Here's a post I made a while back that'll make your game sound almost exactly like that video Jaesun linked.

I've gotten Munt to sound exactly like that. Here's instructions for Windows:

1. Download https://github.com/downloads/sergm/munt ... _10_03.zip
2. If you are using 32bit Windows, put mt32emu.dll into Windows\System32. If you are using 64bit Windows, put mt32emu.dll into Windows\SysWOW64.
3. Put mt32emu.ini straight into your Windows directory.
4. Pirate the MT-32 and CM-32L ROM sets (easy to find on a certain popular torrent site).
5. Put MT32_PCM.ROM and MT32_CONTROL.ROM, or CM32L_PCM.ROM and CM32L_CONTROL.ROM into the same directory as mt32emu.dll (either Windows\System32 or Windows\SysWOW64).
6. Run mt32emu_drv_GUI.exe as administrator. Press the install button.
7. Load up DOSBox. Type in "mixer /listmidi".
8. You should notice the added "MT-32 Synth Emulator" on the resultant list. Note the number before it. It'll most likely be 1.
9. Load up your DOSBox configuration file (dosbox.conf) and scroll down to the "[midi]" section.
10. You should see the "midiconfig=" underneath it. Change it to so that the device number for the MT-32 Synth Emulator is after the equals sign. For example, "midiconfig=1".

Well that's DOSBox set up to pass midi to the MT-32 emulator. Now all you need to do is run whatever installer comes with whatever DOS game you want to play and set up the sound options to use the Roland MT-32 or whatever. For Might and Magic III, run the INSTALL.EXE and set the sound to Roland LAPC-1. For Might and Magic III it's best to use the CM-32L ROMs rather than the MT-32 ROMs. If you've put the MT-32 ROMs into your System32/SysWOW64 directory then remove them, put in the CM-32L ones and then run mt32emu_drv_GUI.exe (as administrator) to reinstall.

Good luck.

Basically, if you refuse to spend money on the hardware then this is your best bet for a lot of old games, especially old Sierra adventure games.

 

[Sceptic]

FUCK YOU elitist prick! Just because you DO have an actual Sound Canvas and I have the lowly CM-500!

The only way you'll ever shut me up about this is by getting an SC-8850 before I do

EDIT USER IS A MORAN: Actually I don't notice that supposed buggy vibrato. Do you?

I'm not sure. There's definitely something odd about the CMs in general compared to the MT-32 in some games. In fact I suspect it's there in the CM-32L even; there are some... REALLY ANNOYING distortions with the CM-32L Rise of the Dragon intro music that are not there in the MT-32 rev0 recording that some guy made on youtube. The kind of REALLY ANNOYING that you only hear after you do sound comparisons and can then NEVER UNHEAR AGAIN
(so my advice: don't do it)

Perhaps if you get some time we could compare the intro if MM IV (I THINK that was specifically Sound Canvas? or is it V?) and compare the SC vs the CM-500 one.

All music and (non-speech) sound effects for both 4 and 5 are specifically Sound Canvas, of that I'm certain. But I don't think any of the buggy stuff shows in SC mode with the CM-500, only in MT-32 mode. You could try to see how the main menu music for WOX/Darkside sounds with the CM-500 and compare to the one I uploaded. Hell with a CM-500 you could probably do it for both modes. Let me know if there's a specific tune you want to record.

Also, in case you hear anything different: be advised that I do not record a MIDI file in DOSBox like you do, I record the sound from the line-in DIRECTLY as it's playing in-game. Shouldn't make any difference, but just something to keep in mind.

Basically, if you refuse to spend money on the hardware then this is your best bet for a lot of old games, especially old Sierra adventure games.

Munt HAS improved tremendously in the past couple of years, I'll give it that. It sounds mostly like the real thing most of the time to me. No such luck if you're going for 1992-1996 games, most of which relied on the Sound Canvas instead. Judging by the complete lack of interest anyone has in emulating the SC like they did for Munt that's probably never gonna change either.

 

[groke]

Basically, if you refuse to spend money on the hardware then this is your best bet for a lot of old games, especially old Sierra adventure games.

I've been using the mt32emu-qt branch for a while and it's pretty great. You can switch between ROMs through a menu, which is super convenient, and it displays the LCD text (*INSERT BUCKAZOID*, etc.). It's never going to sound exactly like the original hardware, though.

 

[Luzur]

i still hum the MM3 town music when im thinking deep, so i guess growing up listening to it through a lowly Sound Blaster and not some overpriced sound machine wasnt so bad after all.

 

[Falkner]

Darkside Of Xeen music is awesome. Especially the intro and the blacksmith theme. I like staying there for a while just to listen to the music.

I've been making making progress lately. Bought a castle and could build a dungeon, but I need the king's permit. Whenever I talk to him, he wants me to bring him the sixth mirror. I guess I'll have to find that stupid mirror then.
My problem right now is: My cleric is now 36 at level 14, through some jew magery by a bunch of spirits in Winterkill and presumably that damn Sphinx. How do I reverse this? I've read something about a fountain of youth in Darkside, but surely there must be a way to do it in Clouds. I'm starting to meet more enemies that can age my party and if curing it includes a lenghty quest, I'd rather start now.

 

[Sceptic]

Darkside Of Xeen music is awesome.

Yes. Yes it is.

Whenever I talk to him, he wants me to bring him the sixth mirror. I guess I'll have to find that stupid mirror then.

Or you missed something in the castle...

I've read something about a fountain of youth in Darkside, but surely there must be a way to do it in Clouds.

There's an outdoors sidequest that allows you to do this. Explore thoroughly.

 

[Falkner]

Whenever I talk to him, he wants me to bring him the sixth mirror. I guess I'll have to find that stupid mirror then.

Or you missed something in the castle...

In mine or the king's? I hope it doesn't have to do with the dragon.

There's an outdoors sidequest that allows you to do this. Explore thoroughly.

Fuck. I was just about to do the last part of that quest anyway. I've just finished it because I was passing by and now feel pretty stupid.

Edit: Nevermind. I now have my very own dungeon and seem to be getting to the endgame of Clouds.

 

[Sceptic]

Yep, if you've got your dungeon then you're entering the final stages. There's the golem dungeon that you probably haven't done and that is optional if you got enough medgacredits from the others.

 

[Luzur]

well you could visit the Tomb of Thousand Terrors too, for more megacredits, but i think you'll need only 5 of them to finish the castle dungeons and get the blade, which you should be able to find in the golem dungeon or the tomb.

 

[octavius]

My guys are around lvl 30 in MM3 now. I'm getting a bit tired of the popamole combat (if you hit the S key twice quickly you get two missile attacks), though.
The only enemy that has caused serious trouble was a minotaur; nothing worked against him.
I miss those epic, nail biting fights from MM2.

One thing that bugs me a bit is that many actions take a day to resolve, like any action in a Temple takes one day, and activating some wells take a whole day.
I usually set my self a goal of completing a game as fast as possible in-game time, but I was rather annoyed when I discovered that going to a temple to heal would take 8 days when I could have gotten the same effect - for free - by resting for 8 hours.

This game really requires meticilous note keeping. First time I played I missed out on how to de-activate the force field in the Cathedral of Carnage, and I never found the Fountain of Youth on the island in Piranha Bay.


I was wondering two things:

1. The Wishing Well - a red herring?

2. The illusionary chests on the Isles of Illusion: do they ever turn real? I though they would do so on da 50, 60 or 99, but no luck.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I don't recall any of that stuff taking any time at all when I played. Maybe you're running with a patch or something? A lot of that stuff is overpowered precisely because it takes no time. Warp to town, get full +10 blessings on everyone for dirt cheap, warp to a fountain, get massive stat bonus, warp back to dungeon: Elapsed time ~ 10 minutes. Nevermind later on when you can zip across the outdoors world with teleport and grab a bunch of fountains in almost no time at all.

 

[Sceptic]

1. The Wishing Well - a red herring?

I'm sure you could do something with it but I don't remember now.

2. The illusionary chests on the Isles of Illusion: do they ever turn real? I though they would do so on da 50, 60 or 99, but no luck.

They do turn real on a particular day but I don't remember which one. Possibly day 1?
Fake edit: actually they're real on Onesday.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS I WISH I COULD BROFIST THE WHOLE THREAD I READ EVERYONES OPINIONS AND BOUGHT 7 FROM GOG

I GOT 3 4 5 FROM ABANDONWARE SITES AND PLAYED WORLDS RECENTLY AND LOVED IT

I PLAYED 2 ON THE C64 AND GENESIS WHEN IT CAME OUT AND ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT BUT I THINK IT MIGHT NOT ENTHRALL ME AS MUCH TODAY AND ACTUALLY THE GENESIS VERSION WAS VERY FUNCTIONAL IT CAME WITH A HUGE ASS MANUAL FOR A CONSOLE GAME