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The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
610
I finally finished Peril on Gorgon btw and it was such a glow up and also like way sombre compared to the main game. It took me like 15 or 20 hours to complete it soo I don't know how people finished it in 4 or 6 hours unless they didn't pay attention to the dialogue and not reading the notes and stuff which adds so much to the story (even the final confrontation totally rewards you for exploring and finding out stuff because you then get to say that stuff to the final boss which unlocks an entirely different ending and you don't even need any persuade). Also Nyoka had like an entire character arc on Gorgon so I would totally recommend bringing her with you! The only really dumb thing is that once you complete the game there's no epilogue where you get to find out what happens in the future you have to complete the main game again to find out. It was definitely the best story in The Outer Worlds so I would totally recommend playing it!
Maybe you're not the best person to ask this but is her character arc any good? Nyoka was easily the most boring companion in the game, at least Felix was annoying. From the spoiler you posted it doesn't seem like anything new to this game, since you know it's just
oh look aren't the corps fucking awful guys???
 
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
1,121
Maybe you're not the best person to ask this but is her character arc any good? Nyoka was easily the most boring companion in the game, at least Felix was annoying. From the spoiler you posted it doesn't seem like anything new to this game, since you know it's just
oh look aren't the corps fucking awful guys???
Like, if you don't like Nyoka then you don't need to bring her. Her arc still exists because you can still ask her about some stuff on the ship it will just be way less (I guess) because there are some conversations that only happen with the companions you bring after you complete stuff on Gorgon. My companions were Nyoka and Parvati so I only really know the stuff that happens with them but I heard Felix is really good to bring to Gorgon! But I thought it was really fierce that Nyoka
goes from thinking the corps are ok to wanting to kill every member on the board
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Why are you posting that like it's a good thing?

Don't support crunch, but maybe the extended time period was to try and get it right without crunch even if it doesn't look like it worked.
Crunch, for lack of a better word, is good.
Most games that are considered to be good wouldn't exist without crunch. Without crunch, we get crappy DLC for mediocre games created by soypeople who don't actually care about the product they've created.
How many great artists(of all fields) do you think worked only 40 hours a week on their masterpieces?
 

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
610
Why are you posting that like it's a good thing?

Don't support crunch, but maybe the extended time period was to try and get it right without crunch even if it doesn't look like it worked.
Crunch, for lack of a better word, is good.
Most games that are considered to be good wouldn't exist without crunch. Without crunch, we get crappy DLC for mediocre games created by soypeople who don't actually care about the product they've created.
How many great artists(of all fields) do you think worked only 40 hours a week on their masterpieces?
Not for the people actually making the games and more often than not not for the end product (and therefore the consumers) neither. Sometimes it even makes already declining companies just implode into themselves because of it, like Bioware once they fully embraced it with Anthem and Andromeda.
 

normie

️‍
Patron
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
3,784
Insert Title Here
yeah, the types they hire for the job already hate the industry and the people who play video games coming in

there's probably some sweet spot where crunch will get the most out of them while going over or under will pivot towards more energy being focused on posting on twitter and fronting as a REAL PROFESSIONAL in the industry
 

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
610
How many great artists(of all fields) do you think worked only 40 hours a week on their masterpieces?
Self-imposed overworking and overworking forced by the management are two different things.
Nobody is forcing them to do it, they can quit when they want.
You can't be serious. Maybe with companies outside of America, but within it, in this industry? You'll be jobless within a week if you try to just work what you're legally required to, and don't even think about getting compensation for all your extra work, you get good boy points only.
Een0tX1WAAYrOPv.jpg
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,768
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ



Trudoden (Russian: Трудодень, portmanteau literally meaning labourday) was a unit of value and type of accounting of quantity and quality of labor (as a factor of production) in collective farms (kolkhozes) of the Soviet Union in 1930 – 1966. It literally means a day of labor. It also was a form of wage payments.

Members of collective farms were paid based on the amount of trudodni (plural form) earned. Payments to the collective farm members were made with natural products such as grain when and if they were able to realize their products.


Oh, the sweet irony!
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,206
I just had a vision of the near future. I see companies paying extra work with virtual currency that can be spent to acquire virtual gadgets in online games (that are being developed by the employers of the same companies).
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
"They must work 800 hours a week to produce more fun video games!"

Lord Executor Shackleford, writing from his desk while slaving away at his masterpiece, the Accumulated RPG Codex Posts of Lord Executor Shackleford
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
How many great artists(of all fields) do you think worked only 40 hours a week on their masterpieces?
Self-imposed overworking and overworking forced by the management are two different things.
Nobody is forcing them to do it, they can quit when they want.
You can't be serious. Maybe with companies outside of America, but within it, in this industry? You'll be jobless within a week if you try to just work what you're legally required to, and don't even think about getting compensation for all your extra work, you get good boy points only.
Een0tX1WAAYrOPv.jpg
Who is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to work at a video game development company?
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/370220/Directing_The_Outer_Worlds_DLC_The_Peril_on_Gorgon.php

Directing The Outer Worlds' first narrative expansion The Peril on Gorgon

While Obsidian gears up on new games like Grounded and Avowed, it hasn't turned away from last year's standout hit The Outer Worlds. This month saw the release of Peril on Gorgon, a new DLC adventure for the developer's capitalistic dystopian RPG.

To lead up this DLC, Obsidian tapped lead narrative designer Carrie Patel, who took over game directing duties from Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain. It's a huge task for any game developer to take the role, since it often involves a move into leadership over departments they weren't previously involved in.

What do players want in narrative DLC?
Peril on Gorgon is structured similar to some of the DLC content you might have seen in BioWare's RPG games from the 2009-2014 period, or what Gearbox has used to fill out its Borderlands releases. They're specific stories sequestered away in a new area of the game, meant to be experienced by players who've reached the endgame or new players attracted to the title with the release of new content.

Peril on Gorgon takes place on the sequestered Gorgon asteroid, home of a mysterious research facility. Patel credited the post-release development of Gorgon for giving Obsidian time to look closely at what players responded positively to in the original game, which helped her team hone the vision for the DLC.


PD_The_Outer_Worlds_Peril_On_Gorgon_Screenshot_Moonman.jpg


She said this led Obsidian to look closely at the game's Marauder enemy types and the in-game drug called Adrena-Time as sources of inspiration, since both go somewhat unexplored in the main game. Unlike most of the other games' areas, Gorgon draws players into a noir-type adventure by way of a package containing a severed arm, where a mysterious heiress tasks them with tracking down her missing mother.

Patel credited lead narrative designer Kate Dollarhyde with helping shape Peril on Gorgon's overall thematic direction. "One thing that Kate specifically brought up was the idea of the Manhattan Project and the notion of these people who work together on something terrible and destructive, and then they sort of split up and fell apart from each other," Patel said.

She said the team looked at the problem as "how you tell a story where someone's personal experience is very much what grounds a much larger epic, world altering experience?"

What's neat about Patel's described approach is this storytelling focus centers on the game's non-playable characters, rather than the player character. She compared it to The Outer Worlds' other planet-driven arcs, which focused on local disputes informed by a system-wide crisis, and drift away from the game's main quest.

"This is one of the thing that I think that I think is very interesting about RPGs in general is that this genre has a reputation for being all about the the survival of kingdoms the conquest of world...but I think what many players really attached to are stories that feel personal."

Building a language to lead around
When it came to taking over the role of game director, Patel said there wasn't necessarily pressure to live up to Cain and Boyarski's original vision, and that the main challenge was in learning to provide vision for other, non-narrative departments that were outside her previous purview.

The DLC's noir-focused vision meant the team had to figure out how a far-off asteroid could resemble the classic look of '40s crime flicks, and how character and story could be filled out without an area filled with bustling NPCs.

"The pulp noir version of The Outer Worlds had really big implications for environment art and area lighting," she explained. "[As a director,] it's really helpful to just say 'here's the vision we want to create, and as a cross-disciplinary team, if we're all on the same page about this, what are the different tools that we have from our disciplines to do that?"


PD_The_Outer_Worlds_Peril_On_Gorgon_Screenshot_Dialogue_Parvati_3.jpg


Laying the foundation for making that shared vision meant learning how to ask questions over her seven years with the studio. "I think doing well in that transition is very much about learning how to ask the questions that you need to ask," she said. "I will never be an expert programmer or an accomplished artist. But I do need to be able to talk to the programming and the art teams to understand what their processes and concerns are and how that affects the content we're gonna make."

Patel's narrative designer background gave her a new perspective on a classic RPG problem--what happens when you make great content, only for the player to speed right by it, or ignore it, on their choice-drive adventure? She explained that Obsidian's procedure by this point is to test and build around the possibility of any NPC in a questline being killed, but part of the process means adopting a mentality that players may not be approaching your game for the same moments you enjoyed in maknig it.

"Part of the beauty of an RPG, I think, is having a structure that is open and flexible enough to give all of those players enough room to make their story the way they want it," Patel said. "I think as a designer, you just have to accept that like, 'okay, I put this thing here, not everyone's gonna see it, but the people who are interested in it, who do look for it and find it like they're gonna I love it.'"

"In a way that makes it even more meaningful because you kind of know who you're creating those moments for."

Patel's leadership rise comes with one particular complication--the COVID-19 pandemic that moved the team to remote work. Any leader has particular challenges in uniting the team, but without face-to-face interactions, the normal tools of team unity aren't available to her. This led Obsidian to push for some creative teambuilding efforts.

One of them was Peril on Gorgon bingo. "[What] we actually did as a team that was that was pretty fun is have [Twitch streamer] Cohh Carnage play through the DLC over the last few days, and we set up an office bingo," Patel said with a laugh. The boards were specifically built to cover Peril on Gorgon's wilder moments, to see what he'd find in his run.

"It was something we could do to remotely just to connect around the stuff we worked on in a really light hearted social manner."
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,206
Would pyramids be a good counter-example willy?
Regarding slavery one can argue that, given a specific work, slaves tend to have less crunch than "free" laborers. The difference is based on the fact that in slavery, the employer own the slaves, he has spent money for them, hence if he broke them or too much crunch renders them too exhausted to work in his next projects, he is actually loosing manpower and money. Hence the employer is also motivated to invest for the health of the slave and for his well being. In the modern free market, the workers are not owned, they are rented. There is no need to reduce the crunch or to invest in the well being of the workers. If you break them, you can easily switch them with fresh new ones with zero additional cost.
 

Silly Germans

Guest
Would pyramids be a good counter-example willy?
Regarding slavery one can argue that, given a specific work, slaves tend to have less crunch than "free" laborers. The difference is based on the fact that in slavery, the employer own the slaves, he has spent money for them, hence if he broke them or too much crunch renders them too exhausted to work in his next projects, he is actually loosing manpower and money. Hence the employer is also motivated to invest for the health of the slave and for his well being. In the modern free market, the workers are not owned, they are rented. There is no need to reduce the crunch or to invest in the well being of the workers. If you break them, you can easily switch them with fresh new ones with zero additional cost.
I would expect that a new employee needs some training=investment before he can work efficiently. Is game development so simple that you can switch out people on a whim ?
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,206
Would pyramids be a good counter-example willy?
Regarding slavery one can argue that, given a specific work, slaves tend to have less crunch than "free" laborers. The difference is based on the fact that in slavery, the employer own the slaves, he has spent money for them, hence if he broke them or too much crunch renders them too exhausted to work in his next projects, he is actually loosing manpower and money. Hence the employer is also motivated to invest for the health of the slave and for his well being. In the modern free market, the workers are not owned, they are rented. There is no need to reduce the crunch or to invest in the well being of the workers. If you break them, you can easily switch them with fresh new ones with zero additional cost.
I would expect that a new employee needs some training=investment before he can work efficiently. Is game development so simple that you can switch out people on a whim ?
Intern are made for this reason...

More seriously, obviously there is an amount of training=investment to change personell. This is the main currency through which working people have still some way to negotiate with the employer. How much it cost to train new people depends on the specific kind of work. If the work is very non standard and high level, it could cost a lot to change people. This is the main reason why usually you don't see too much imposed crunch on these kind of high level works.

However consider this: In slavery, the education of the slaves was payed entirely by the employer. It was an huge investment. In modern times companies look directly for people with the best hyperspecialized CV. Basically these people are already trained with an education that already match 99% or more of the needs of the companies (you have to put in "education" everything, from basic school to PhD, working experiences, courses, etc.). The cost of this education is huge, immense, and in almost all the cases it is completely self-funded by the workers themselves (through direct payment, taxes, insurances, loans, etc.) and then exploited by companies with very minimal investment.
 

Silly Germans

Guest
Would pyramids be a good counter-example willy?
Regarding slavery one can argue that, given a specific work, slaves tend to have less crunch than "free" laborers. The difference is based on the fact that in slavery, the employer own the slaves, he has spent money for them, hence if he broke them or too much crunch renders them too exhausted to work in his next projects, he is actually loosing manpower and money. Hence the employer is also motivated to invest for the health of the slave and for his well being. In the modern free market, the workers are not owned, they are rented. There is no need to reduce the crunch or to invest in the well being of the workers. If you break them, you can easily switch them with fresh new ones with zero additional cost.
I would expect that a new employee needs some training=investment before he can work efficiently. Is game development so simple that you can switch out people on a whim ?
Intern are made for this reason...

More seriously, obviously there is an amount of training=investment to change personell. This is the main currency through which working people have still some way to negotiate with the employer. How much it cost to train new people depends on the specific kind of work. If the work is very non standard and high level, it could cost a lot to change people. This is the main reason why usually you don't see too much imposed crunch on these kind of high level works.

However consider this: In slavery, the education of the slaves was payed entirely by the employer. It was an huge investment. In modern times companies look directly for people with the best hyperspecialized CV. Basically these people are already trained with an education that already match 99% or more of the needs of the companies (you have to put in "education" everything, from basic school to PhD, working experiences, courses, etc.). The cost of this education is huge, immense, and in almost all the cases it is completely self-funded by the workers themselves (through direct payment, taxes, insurances, loans, etc.) and then exploited by companies with very minimal investment.

To be honest i don't have a good notion what crunching actually implies, what kind of work is done by whom. I thought it encompasses pretty much the whole developer studio except management. I was under the impression that hierarchies are rather flat/shallow in game dev, but i could be entirely wrong about that.
 

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