The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

[IHaveHugeNick]

RPG Codex : Josh Sawyer ruins games by making everything perfectly balanced

Also RPG Codex: some TOW weapons and builds are better than others, what the fuck?

It is easy to misrepresent what "the Codex" thinks.

almost as if codex isn't some kind of hivemind.

he's simply trolling, and poorly.

Hey, it worked on Kit Walker.

 

[vortex]

We need to extract writing genome from Avellone and create new, so called, codenamed Compound MCA.
Every millennial+ writer gets vaccinated.
Problem solved.
Mic Drop.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

The developers are no longer some lads full of passion ready to create a work of art, but instead a bunch of workers toiling under a corporate structure and alienated from the product of their labor by post-Trotskyite elements of the current petite bourgeoisie which supervise and direct their work.

Because the Black Isle developers were totally not workers dealing with Interplay's incompetent leadership. They were volunteers, in fact.

Tim Cain and MCA were largely left to their own devices when they were creating Fallout and Torment.

 

[Hot Coldman]

We need to extract writing genome from Avellone and create new, so called, codenamed Compound MCA.
Every millennial+ writer gets vaccinated.
Problem solved.
Mic Drop.

High hopes for Iron Tower writer Vince's next game too, Mothership.

 

[Trashos]

Ah I see we've arrived at the inevitable "bitch about millennial female writers" part of this game's lifecycle. Might as well get it over with.

But look, this isn't a thing that's going to go away. In fact it's going to get worse. And it's not really about California. Look at the demographics. Which of the two sexes reads more books today? Which one earns more college degrees, especially in literature and the humanities?

We're not going to return to the era where most of an Obsidian RPG's writers were overeducated dudes who were born in the 1970s and played Planescape: Torment in college. That generation has moved on. You should actually expect majority-female or even all-female RPG writing teams to be the norm in the future.

Infinitron is making some good points here (although I would expect that women have been reading more than men for decades now, many women are at home when men are at work), but I have to disagree with the bottom line.

If you want to get competent dudes to write, you can get them. It is not like there are a billion gaming companies that focus on writing. Look at Kingmaker (or Disco Elysium fans will probably bring up DE- I haven't played it yet), where have these guys been? Apparently, noone was looking for them.

But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

Not to mention that Obsidian had the most talented game writer ever and they lost him. As a matter of fact, they had quite a few very good writers and they lost them. I do not think they can be excused.

 

[vortex]

There are competent game writers like Scott Hamm but far more female writers are dominant simply because they can easily write from home while raising kids.

 

[Riddler]

First, the problem with TOW companions isn't that they're written by women. It's that they're written by third-rate hacks who've never been told they suck and should find a job in a cubicle making coffee instead.

This I can more or less agree with and for that reason I think I'm done with Obsidian (caveat being if Sawyer creates a truly autistic historical game).

But second, the main problem with TOW's overarching themes being so vapid, lame and low-concept absolutely IS gender.

How so? Boyarsky was lead narrative designer and co-director here. Shouldn't the blame for this be placed on him?

Blame the characters being vapid on the individual writers but enforcing the overall direction has to be the lead's responsibility, no? One could of course argue that this was an impossible mission given his staff but he could at least have nipped Parvatis companion quest in the bud.

My take is that Leonard is still burned out and doesn't have the energy to wrangle 5.5 incompetent writers into creating something decent.

 

[cvv]

Oh, two more pages, I wonder what this is abou...

California, valley girls and colorful hair.

Bro you've written an elaborate wall-o-text review and not a peep about the writing quality and the relevant bigger picture. Good job?

It's like you're doing a detailed review of the new iPhone, meticulously describing all the features, functions and faculties, while being completely oblivious to the fact you're standing waist deep in a trash compactor and the walls are slowly closing in.

 

[Lacrymas]

But even if I go full liberal and pretend that women can successfully write for a male audience (which is not impossible, I just consider it very rare), can they at least try to hire competent ones that can appeal to said audience?

The first burning question is "what does it mean to appeal to a male audience?". Your answer would be "pretty ladies and buff dudes saving those pretty ladies", but that's extremely shallow and most well-read adult men wouldn't find that very exciting or stimulating. There's a whole novel about that, it's called Don Quixote. What is left then?

 

[PrettyDeadman]

A recurring observation: https://www.somethingawful.com/video-game-article/outer-worlds-disco/ Prime Junta

Both Outer Worlds and Disco Elysium are very bad games, okay?

 

[cvv]

How so? Boyarsky was lead narrative designer and co-director here. Shouldn't the blame for this be placed on him?

Can you also see Boyarsky being all "oh wow, that's so funny Megan, great job!", all grimacing and pretending to wipe his tears, desperately trying to steer clear from the meetoo waters, quietly thinking "I'm too old for this shit, just trying to survive till my first social security check"?

Or, as you say yourself:

My take is that Leonard is still burned out and doesn't have the energy to wrangle 5.5 incompetent writers into creating something decent.

Also this

TOW ended up being half-women/half-soymen in terms of writing staff anyway.

 

[Darkzone]

Ah I see we've arrived at the inevitable "bitch about millennial female writers" part of this game's lifecycle. Might as well get it over with.
But look, this isn't a thing that's going to go away. In fact it's going to get worse. And it's not really about California. Look at the demographics. Which of the two sexes reads more books today? Which one earns more college degrees, especially in literature and the humanities?
We're not going to return to the era where most of an Obsidian RPG's writers were overeducated dudes who were born in the 1970s and played Planescape: Torment in college. That generation has moved on. You should actually expect majority-female or even all-female RPG writing teams to be the norm in the future.

We need more sober russian-, romanticist german-, existentialist polish-, katholic french- and critical rebelious british male writers in RPGs.... instead of annoying white middle class goals.

 

[Daidre]

Blame the characters being vapid on the individual writers but enforcing the overall direction has to be the lead's responsibility, no? One could of course argue that this was an impossible mission given his staff but he could at least have nipped Parvatis companion quest in the bud.

I have a really vague ideas about how USA game development works, but is it even possible to enforce a vision on female writer's work or "nip quest in the bud"? Wont he get blamed for discrimination and completely fucked up if she decides to escalate it to management instead of listening to his critique?

Maybe I am just horribly prejudiced.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Boyarsky and Cain are hacks, time to search who are the people that actually made Troika's games good.

 

[Infinitron]

If you want to get competent dudes to write, you can get them. It is not like there are a billion gaming companies that focus on writing. Look at Kingmaker (or Disco Elysium fans will probably bring up DE- I haven't played it yet), where have these guys been? Apparently, noone was looking for them.

That's why in my later post in this thread I narrowed that down to professional (non-indie/non-startup) game development in the West.

Not to mention that Obsidian had the most talented game writer ever and they lost him. As a matter of fact, they had quite a few very good writers and they lost them. I do not think they can be excused.

Mistakes were made, but I think in the long run these guys from the MOTB era like George Ziets, Eric Fenstermaker, etc were never going to be content to remain a dream team of "Avellone understudies" forever. It seems that if you're a really smart professional male video game writer, your natural career path is to eventually either become a bigshot Creative Lead (which means you have to find a studio where that position is open - see Fallout: New Vegas's John Gonzales) or go freelance.

 

[Lacrymas]

Going freelance bars you from overseeing a whole project, though. When was the last time Avellone was a lead on anything? His talents are criminally underused, Larian didn't even use his work for Fane in the end (afaik).

 

[Riddler]

If you want to get competent dudes to write, you can get them. It is not like there are a billion gaming companies that focus on writing. Look at Kingmaker (or Disco Elysium fans will probably bring up DE- I haven't played it yet), where have these guys been? Apparently, noone was looking for them.

That's why in my later post in this thread I narrowed that down to professional (non-indie/non-startup) game development in the West.

Not to mention that Obsidian had the most talented game writer ever and they lost him. As a matter of fact, they had quite a few very good writers and they lost them. I do not think they can be excused.

Mistakes were made, but I think in the long run these guys from the MOTB era like George Ziets, Eric Fenstermaker, etc were never going to be content to remain a dream team of "Avellone understudies" forever. It seems that if you're a really smart professional male video game writer, your natural career path is to eventually either become a bigshot Creative Lead (which means you have to find a studio where that position is open - see Fallout: New Vegas's John Gonzales) or go freelance.

If it is genuinely impossible to find adequate staff then I would honestly prefer that they just used less writing and adjusted their games thereafter.

 

[Deadass]

Boyarsky and Cain are hacks, time to search who are the people that actually made Troika's games good.

Anderson

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh, two more pages, I wonder what this is abou...

California, valley girls and colorful hair.

Bro you've written an elaborate wall-o-text review and not a peep about the writing quality and the relevant bigger picture. Good job?

It's like you're doing a detailed review of the new iPhone, meticulously describing all the features, functions and faculties, while being completely oblivious to the fact you're standing waist deep in a trash compactor and the walls are slowly closing in.

You seem to have lost your reading glasses. Maybe this will help.

Well I finished it. Short review is this: Outer Worlds is a burger made of high quality ingredients, but chef forgot to add seasoning. It also makes zero excuses for being a burger, which is why I ended up liking it more than both Pillars, they aimed for the Michelin star only to end up undercooked.

One thing I gotta praise is that the game stays remarkably loyal to its advertised formula. I ended up clocking 26 hours, completionist run wouldn't take more than 30. Small amount of content in a $60 RPG was always going to be controversial, but throughout the game Obsidian avoids the temptation to add some cheap filler content. They stick to making well-crafted levels with multiple approaches and reactivity in the quests. There's something to commend about the game that is 30 hours long but stays consistent, focused and comes out polished and finished on launch. Josh could learn a thing or two about scope control from Tim and Leon.

Overall most of the game is done well, but two biggest offenders dragging it down are loot and writing. Loot is simply horrendous and made worse by the game constantly throwing trucks of items at you. Just sorting through that shit makes you want to find a different hobby. Writing has some high points, but most of the time it lacks flavor, fails to establish the factions, fails to flesh out the setting and memorable characters and quests are rare.

The biggest strength is the core gameplay - level design, exploration and C&C are excellent, and combat while not great, is enjoyable enough at the start and becomes more enjoyable throughout the game when some of the more funky items and abilities start opening up. It's certainly a Troika game in terms of gameplay - quest and world structures are similar to Fallout 1, there are Tim Cain's trademark hilariously broken abilities and weapons, and there's a traditional sneaker/talker/fighter gameplay triad.

After Pillars 1, 2 and now TOW, I think we can conclude that this is entirely new Obsidian we're dealing with. They became famous for games where everything was shit except for the writing, but with these last 3 games they've done a complete 180 turn. They've became a developer that is technically competent and makes games that look good, run well, launch without a million bugs, area and interior designers make some gorgeous looking locations, but the writing just isn't there anymore.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a drastic decline. They've improved as a company in many ways and every once in a while it's fun to take off my top hat and eat a burger. But the old Obsidian is gone and the real innovation in the genre is coming out of indies these days. And perhaps that's how it should be.

 

[cvv]

You seem to have lost your reading glasses. Maybe this will help.

You just added that in.




Fine, I take it back.

 

[DeepOcean]

Well Feargus just tought "How can I hire writers on almost minimum wage levels here on California? Nobody gives a shit about writing anyway." Well, I can't blame him, most normies are loving this game, his plan worked flawlessly.
I agree with Infinitron, this will only get worse, but you guise relic nostalgia for Obsidian is an old man obcession at this point, the company is dead, at least the things that were good about it. Dunno why people still care, at this point there is no difference from Obsidian and other AAA garbage factories, I dunno why you guys keep holding the flame of hope. Maybe now on Microsoft, they get money to hire real writers but I doubt anything appealing to our niche will come out of it. Maybe Obsidian will make another looter shooter to compete with Borderlands 3 and Destiny 2, Feargus will love it, maybe we will get a looter shooter that is 10% slightly better written, guess that is incline amiright?

 

[Shadenuat]

Boyarsky and Cain are hacks, time to search who are the people that actually made Troika's games good.

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,46366/

I can't even find the photo of the guy; he wrote all these fantasy magazines.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Dunno why people still care, at this point there is no difference from Obsidian and other AAA garbage factories, I dunno why you guys keep holding the flame of hope

Because J.Sawyer is a cool dude and Megan starks is cute

 

[Riddler]

Dunno why people still care, at this point there is no difference from Obsidian and other AAA garbage factories, I dunno why you guys keep holding the flame of hope

Because J.Sawyer is a cool dude and Megan starks is cute

Sawyer should leave and start biking for Digimancy.

 

[Lacrymas]

Sawyer is a good developer but he needs someone to hold his leash. He understands where the problems are and has vision and ambition, but he needs help.