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The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

DalekFlay

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Hubs.
A hub with 10-15 fleshed out people makes sense. An entire ""city"" that's like 5 building and 10 people is just too much for suspension of disbelief.

I agree, I think I mentioned before the Deus Ex setup is my favorite for this type of game. Even then though you have gameplay contrivances like vans blocking the street or closed tunnels or whatever else. In the end there's a "gamification" in every game. I don't think Outer Worlds is particularly bad at this for its genre. Its problems in that area are firmly rooted in not having the budget to build a bigger and more elaborate world, IMO.
 
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A hub with 10-15 fleshed out people makes sense. An entire ""city"" that's like 5 building and 10 people is just too much for suspension of disbelief.

I recently got the Assassins Creed Discovery freebies and I am amazed about the large detailed maps with hundreds of NPCs moving about doing their thing. Can't the Unreal engine do this?
I don't think it makes sense in most games. One of the major parts of Assassin's Creed is the amount of effort they put into reconstructing historical cities and such. But it also takes a lot of development effort to make cities that big. And even one of the most well funded developers in the world with (presumably) an army of developers who have been doing this for years make cities that are in general, scaled down for convenience/development constraints.
Does a big city full of nameless NPCs you can't really interact with actually add anything to most games?
 

KVVRR

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Well if we look at Monarch, the most well realized place in Outer Worlds, and compare it to New Vegas... is it that more compressed? I'm not saying no, I'm thinking through it in my head. It's obviously smaller of course, but I'm speaking land-to-location ratio. I suppose it does have three cities in a pretty small fucking area, and you're never far from a batch of buildings. Areas that make you feel like you're "out in the woods" so to speak are rare. So maybe you have a point. I wouldn't say Bethesda style games are that much different though really. Just much bigger.
It's a shame that Monarch has the best gameplay in the whole game (if you ignore Phineas' warnings and go into it at a lower level) but the worst writing/factions by far. It's not even that bad, just... boring. I couldn't bring myself to even speak to the Iconoclast's leader in my first save.
Hell it doesn't really have all that much reactivity neither, one would think that an isolated town in the middle of murder planet would notice the new guy who just came out of the woods murdering/sneaking their way through the bandits and beasts that are constantly killing even the people inside the walls of the town, but no one bats an eye. One guy even offered to do the papers for my ship when I hadn't even landed in town.

Does a big city full of nameless NPCs you can't really interact with actually add anything to most games?
it does as long as you can kill em
 

Zer0wing

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This tag has so much class for a simple offense.
 

DalekFlay

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Sure, it's flavour. The original AssCreed leaned heavily on this, as did Witcher 3 in Novigrad.

Flavor is all well and good, but the cities in Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed are filled with people who are all useless unless a quest directs you to them specifically. You don't need to have everyone have a story like Skyrim does, that leads to super small "cities," but I do think there's a balance to be had. Piranha Bytes tends to find that balance, though they focus on smaller settlements. I think you could do that with a capital city if you separate it into smaller hubs, as Rusty mentioned, rather than try to portray the city as a whole. Dragon Age Origins did this with Denerim and it was successful IMO.

Though I think the bulk of "gamers" have spoken and like the big empty open worlds of Assassin's Creed.
 

Zombra

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Flavor is all well and good, but the cities in Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed are filled with people who are all useless unless a quest directs you to them specifically.
Did you also complain about too many "useless" blades of grass in Gothic 1 and 2? A believable environment doesn't have to all be there because of you and your Chosen ass quest.
 

DalekFlay

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Did you also complain about too many "useless" blades of grass in Gothic 1 and 2? A believable environment doesn't have to all be there because of you and your Chosen ass quest.

Your comparison is accurate, but not a positive. I don't expect reactivity and involvement with grass. Novigrad is a big painting, a background like grass. Exploring it gives you nothing, as anything interesting is tied to a quest. Just like Assassin's Creed it's a big empty void of graphics. I'm fine with the concept of immersive cities of course, but I also want my exploring of them to mean something. For all of Witcher 3's huge open map and bazillion question marks, there's really fuck all reason to do anything but quests. I prefer the Piranha Bytes method where there's reason to explore, both in cities and outside them, because everything is hand crafted and more involved.
 

cvv

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I prefer the Piranha Bytes method where there's reason to explore, both in cities and outside them, because everything is hand crafted and more involved.

You can't do really big cities with the PB/Warhorse method. With the current level of technology you can only hope for some flavour with dozens of empty NPCs without any AI like Witcher 3.
 

Zombra

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Your comparison is accurate, but not a positive. I don't expect reactivity and involvement with grass. Novigrad is a big painting, a background like grass. Exploring it gives you nothing, as anything interesting is tied to a quest. Just like Assassin's Creed it's a big empty void of graphics. I'm fine with the concept of immersive cities of course, but I also want my exploring of them to mean something. For all of Witcher 3's huge open map and bazillion question marks, there's really fuck all reason to do anything but quests. I prefer the Piranha Bytes method where there's reason to explore, both in cities and outside them, because everything is hand crafted and more involved.
It's fine to prefer sandbox games to more focused experiences, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Witcher 3 is absolutely packed with content - the fact that most of the proper stories are in quest format doesn't change the fact that exploration will find you a million things to do. If you don't like fighting monsters, finding treasures, gathering resources, or pursuing scripted quest content, what the fuck exactly do you expect?
 

DalekFlay

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It's fine to prefer sandbox games to more focused experiences, but you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Witcher 3 is absolutely packed with content - the fact that most of the proper stories are in quest format doesn't change the fact that exploration will find you a million things to do. If you don't like fighting monsters, finding treasures, gathering resources, or pursuing scripted quest content, what the fuck exactly do you expect?

Witcher 3 is packed with content, yes... and everything outside of the story quests is banal and pointless. Oh boy, leveled loot in a chest. Oh boy, random crafting materials in a chest. Oh boy, leveled monsters that protect more random leveled loot I'll never use. Woopty-fucking-doo. Assassin's Creed is the same, and Dragon Age Inquisition, and a host of others. Busy work simulations with no real exploration, just checking markers off a map for random nonsense that doesn't matter. The story quests in them are fun, sure, as long as you don't mind playing follow-the-marker, but the exploration is terrible and pointless. A walk through a painting with no depth. Piranha Bytes offers a reason to go exploring... hand-placed loot that has value, hand-crafted dungeons and caves, stuff you desperately need to find and sell because actual skill advancement is based on it, etc. It's a much better system for exploration enjoyment.

Cvv is right that you can't do a massive open city with that kind of depth, Bethesda's last two Elder Scrolls games being prime examples, which is exactly why Rusty and I are advocating for the hub system if you want to go that grand. Deus Ex's New York/Detroit, or Dragon Age's Denerim, are good examples. You're in the big city, but in a focused area of it, allowing for great exploration reward and characters who have actual roles and things to say. Witcher 1 did that too, come to think of it, with Vizima, and it was fine. Witcher 2 opted instead for smaller towns, which was fine. Witcher 3 went for grand scale, but no depth, resulting in a shallow ocean.
 

Duralux for Durabux

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The game has sold 2.5 million copies. Not bad. I was guessing maybe half those numbers.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...net-bookings-records-as-q4-digital-sales-jump
Just by comparison, Tim's masterpieces both Fallout 1, Vampire and Arcanum sold 120,000 units , 80,000 units for vampire and 234,000 for Arcanum in its initial release ( I just count the first year, I don't count copies later on)
But No it has to be his worst game that sells the most.
:negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative:
You can't compare units sold like that. The gaming market has grown massively since Fallout 1 released, you can't even compare games that release two years apart anymore.
2.5 million isn't particularly impressive for a 2019 rather high-profile title.
 

Silly Germans

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Sure, it's flavour. The original AssCreed leaned heavily on this, as did Witcher 3 in Novigrad.

Flavor is all well and good, but the cities in Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed are filled with people who are all useless unless a quest directs you to them specifically. You don't need to have everyone have a story like Skyrim does, that leads to super small "cities," but I do think there's a balance to be had. Piranha Bytes tends to find that balance, though they focus on smaller settlements. I think you could do that with a capital city if you separate it into smaller hubs, as Rusty mentioned, rather than try to portray the city as a whole. Dragon Age Origins did this with Denerim and it was successful IMO.

Though I think the bulk of "gamers" have spoken and like the big empty open worlds of Assassin's Creed.
Denerim was a disappointment. It does in no way manage to invoke the illusion of a large capital city. Take Baldurs Gate or Athkatla, those are cities with hubs done right. I hate open worlds games since they contain typically only pointless crap to drag the game on so developers can claim hundreds of hours of game play. I rather take a city where it is perfectly clear which interactions are meaningful, than having to comb the whole place for hours with no interesting returns whatsoever. The Witcher 3 did that exactly right in my opinion. The cities work to set the atmosphere and that's it. The only cases where exploration works as gameplay element are smaller games, like Gothic and Gothic 2. Games where you also spend most of the time in the same area and where you make naturally multiple passes through the same area. It makes sense in such a setting to get familiar with your surroundings since you will be spending the rest of your time there. The developer knows that you won't be running of and it makes sense to invest alot of time to make the area interesting. The Witcher 3 is to large for that. CDProject did the reasonable thing to do in my opinion, instead of half-assing it or filling it with pointless crap.
 
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Infinitron

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The game has sold 2.5 million copies. Not bad. I was guessing maybe half those numbers.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...net-bookings-records-as-q4-digital-sales-jump

Earnings call transcript: https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-...nteractive-software-inc-ttwo-q4-2020-ear.aspx

During fiscal 2020, Private Division launched their most successful released to date with The Outer Worlds. The title has an immense critical and commercial success and has significantly exceeded our expectations with more than 2.5 million units sold in to date. The Outer Worlds is a perfect example of how Private Division can complement our core portfolio selectively and contribute meaningful results to our bottom line.

In addition, on June 5, Private Division will release the critically acclaimed player choice-driven RPG, The Outer Worlds for the Switch.

The largest contributors to net bookings are expected to be NBA 2K, Grand Theft Auto Online and Grand Theft Auto V, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Red Dead Online, Social Point's mobile games, Borderlands 3, Civilization VI and The Outer Worlds.

We expect the net bookings breakdown from our labels to be roughly 55% 2K, 35% Rockstar Games and 10% Private Division and Social Point.
 

Ocelot570

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The thing that I hated the most about the outer worlds was how bad the skill and perk system was. The skills for weapons do almost nothing except to lower sway and increase crit chance. They do have little perks, but they don't really do all that much imo (lame stuff like more hits for ttd and shit). In older games like fallout or arcanum, the first things that were to be upgraded were the weapon skills, and you better get those maxed out ASAP. The perks are almost laughable in how lame they are and then some are ridculously powerful. Gaining 15% health back per damage hit for melee weapons is op as fuck and you can almost never die because of it. Also guaranteed crit hits after a kill can be abused as hell with a high level melee weapon can be charged up to kill most regular enemies in one hit anyways, so the crits just chain on and on. Most of the other perks pretty much suck for me. I think the stroy is alright some cool moments but most is pretty shallow filler stuff. Most of the sidequests can be finished in 15 minutes or less. This game is a C- I'd say. It'll hold you over for basic needs but you won't be thinking of it in the long run.
 
The Real Fanboy
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The game has sold 2.5 million copies. Not bad. I was guessing maybe half those numbers.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...net-bookings-records-as-q4-digital-sales-jump
Just by comparison, Tim's masterpieces both Fallout 1, Vampire and Arcanum sold 120,000 units , 80,000 units for vampire and 234,000 for Arcanum in its initial release ( I just count the first year, I don't count copies later on)
But No it has to be his worst game that sells the most.
:negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative:
You can't compare units sold like that. The gaming market has grown massively since Fallout 1 released, you can't even compare games that release two years apart anymore.
2.5 million isn't particularly impressive for a 2019 rather high-profile title.
Pretending like 2.5 million isn't actually impressive is just being extra, sis.
 

Roguey

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It's no 10 million, but that's what the sequel is for.
 
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I don't find 2.5 million impressive for a highly advertised title that has "FROM THE CREATORS OF THE ORIGINAL FALLOUT AND FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS" slapped on it and released on nearly every major platform.
The buzz around it died quickly and the honeymoon period ended fast. A sequel won't have a perfect storm of people hating on Bethesda at the exact release date either.
 

Sentinel

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I just realized that in the recording of Stairway to Heaven, there's a random "bop" sound in the outro verse, in the line "the tune will come to you at last".
Bizarre.
 

Drowed

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Well, let's see, total (estimated, but certainly the real numbers are higher) sales of the following games:
  • Fallout 3: 10+ millions.
  • Fallout: New Vegas: 8+ millions.
  • Fallout 4: 13+ millions.
  • The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion: 7+ millions.
  • The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (+Special Edition): 26+ millions.
  • Assassin's Creed Origins: 8+ millions.
  • Assassin's Creed Odyssey: 6+ millions.
  • Borderlands 2: 7+ millions.
And obviously we're not gonna use any game from Rockstar on this list because, duh. Oh, but we do have a game that has approximately 2 million in sales:
  • Fallout 76: 2,4+ millions.
I mean, I don't think TOW sales are bad for the kind of game it is. But impressive, they really aren't.
 

Sentinel

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Well, let's see, total (estimated, but certainly the real numbers are higher) sales of the following games:
  • Fallout 3: 10+ millions.
  • Fallout: New Vegas: 8+ millions.
  • Fallout 4: 13+ millions.
  • The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion: 7+ millions.
  • The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (+Special Edition): 26+ millions.
  • Assassin's Creed Origins: 8+ millions.
  • Assassin's Creed Odyssey: 6+ millions.
  • Borderlands 2: 7+ millions.
And obviously we're not gonna use any game from Rockstar on this list because, duh. Oh, but we do have a game that has approximately 2 million in sales:
  • Fallout 76: 2,4+ millions.
I mean, I don't think TOW sales are bad for the kind of game it is. But impressive, they really aren't.
What a stupid fucking comparison.
Comparing sequels to well established IPs to the first game in an IP. Do you guys even think?
 

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