The Surge 2

[toro]

My Review:

Surge 2 >> Code Vein

Surge 2 >>>>>>> Suckiro

i commend your retardation

Sekiro >>>>>>>> Surge and Code Vein

anytime anyplace

 

[Frank Capicoli]

Just finished this almost skipped it since I didn't like LotF and skipped the first Surge, glad I didn't these developers finally made a competent game. Biggest complaint by far is the game runs poorly and aside from that my only other problem with the game was a few shitty repeat bosses.

 

[Puteo]

My Review:

Surge 2 >> Code Vein

Surge 2 >>>>>>> Suckiro

i commend your retardation

Sekiro >>>>>>>> Surge and Code Vein

anytime anyplace

Sekiro is a cookie-clicker rip-off masquerading as a shitty spectacle fighter.

The only reason to play it is if you wasted $60 on that turd and don't want to admit Emperor Miyazaki wears no clothes.

Or if you pirated it and just like the taste of Miyazaki's poo-poo

 

[toro]

My Review:

Surge 2 >> Code Vein

Surge 2 >>>>>>> Suckiro

i commend your retardation

Sekiro >>>>>>>> Surge and Code Vein

anytime anyplace

Sekiro is a cookie-clicker rip-off masquerading as a shitty spectacle fighter.

So, basically you did not bother to learn the parry mechanics ... thank you for your informed opinion about Sekiro.

 

[Puteo]

I've decided to end my play-through because I simply don't want to invest more time in this game anymore. It's pointless when the fun is gone. Game uninstalled.

Also I think I can sense when the bullshit goes off the scale: 3 phases HP sponge boss!? Sure Miyazaki, I will eat your shit and ask for more.

Anyway, I don't know that others have smoked but the combat is garbage. It's not intuitive and rigid. It's like trying to swim with a hand tied up behind your back.

Of course cheats. I gave myself 2x damage so that I can finish them off faster.

I know, I uninstalled the game 3 times and then I've come back and finished it on hard mode.

Sure Miyazaki, I will eat your shit and ask for more.

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/getting-out-of-an-abusive-relationship.htm

 

[luj1]

Gave this one a spin yesterday and I must say I'm positively surprised. Here are my bullet point first impressions of the game:

• Combat (which is the game's main selling point) has been improved about 200%. Directional parry is fun and poise bars help you make informed decisions instead of guessing on whether or not your enemy will stagger with your next blow
• New drone is far more useful and interesting. I pretty much ignored the drone in the first game, but now it actually DOES things and you can easily combo drone moves with your own attacks to make combos on the fly
• Cross up combos are now easier to understand and use. Another fun thing is that your moveset changes depending on which body part you're currently aiming at, so there is a TON of moves for you to learn before claiming you mastered X weapon
• I enjoyed the introduction of the game's main thing (exo rigs) this time around even more. Granted, Surge 1 having your guy on a wheelchair and then becoming an armored badass was a nice unique touch, but sadly Warren's only claim to fame is being a wheelchair bound protagonist and nothing more. This time the game won't tell or show you about the rigs. Instead it puts you up against a prisoner with a basic rig while you have none and then you fight the warden with mid-tier rig while you're just scrapping by. In both scenarios you feel severely underpowerd, driving home the point that rigs are very, VERY, good in this setting.
• Both enemies and the player will now (FINALLY) use GUNS, so things make a lot more sense now.
• Game feels a bit more "alive" this time around. Some of you might think it's , but most people will enjoy having more NPCs that aren't nutjobs talking to you. Remember the guard lady from Surge 1? Yeah, that won't be missed.
• One thing I disliked: game will now tell you which "mark" level gear an opponent is using. Makes the hunt for crafting materials easier/less tedious, but it's one of those "handholding" things I tend to dislike in general.
• Speaking of handholding, the game still refrains from telling you where to go, which is awesome. No quest markers, no fast travel, nothing. I thought I would get lost, but the truth is that there are plenty of recognizable landmarks for you to navigate the setting without much hassle. And the level design remains STELLAR, perhaps even better than the first game.

Sounds improved in every way compared to the original

 

[toro]

I've decided to end my play-through because I simply don't want to invest more time in this game anymore. It's pointless when the fun is gone. Game uninstalled.

Also I think I can sense when the bullshit goes off the scale: 3 phases HP sponge boss!? Sure Miyazaki, I will eat your shit and ask for more.

Anyway, I don't know that others have smoked but the combat is garbage. It's not intuitive and rigid. It's like trying to swim with a hand tied up behind your back.

Of course cheats. I gave myself 2x damage so that I can finish them off faster.

I know, I uninstalled the game 3 times and then I've come back and finished it on hard mode.

Sure Miyazaki, I will eat your shit and ask for more.

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/abuse/getting-out-of-an-abusive-relationship.htm

I've made all the comment above during the first play-through of the game because I refused to learn how to use the parry mechanics and it was a bad experience to say the least.

But then I've made an extra effort and I played again until I understood that you cannot work around parry in Sekiro and that the parry mechanic is an integral part of Sekiro's combat ... and I truly enjoyed the game on the highest difficulty.



Neither Code Vein, The Surge, The Surge 2 or Nioh have bosses of the quality of Owl (Father), Genichiro or Isshin.

This is probably one of From SW's greatest qualities: somehow they know how to implement legendary bosses (probably by making the extra effort of giving them a personality).

Nobody with decent taste will give a shit about robotic bosses from The Surge or the copy-pasted bosses from Code Vein. Probably even Nioh is better than them in this department.

 

[deama]

I played code vein for a few hours and then tried surge 2. Surge 2 definitely takes the cake as it just feels much nicer to play, even if it runs worse...

 

[Puteo]

Neither Code Vein, The Surge, The Surge 2 or Nioh has bosses of the quality of Owl (Father), Genichiro or Isshin.

Yes, they don't have bosses that are of such shitty quality. Unless of course if you are referring to the art. Which I will agree is excellent and by far the best part of suckiro. That's why it's so easy for people to be memed into thinking it's a good game.

I on the other hand prefer gameplay over graphics, which is why the Surge 2 is vastly superior with it's innovative parry mechanic compared to 'kiro's poorly thought out regression and over-emphasis of the same mechanic.

 

[Shackleton]

Horses for courses. I enjoyed Sekiro, but the unremitting concentration it required just exhausted me in the end and I stopped playing after countless deaths on Genichiro. I just wasn't finding it fun. The Surge 2 is absolutely nowhere near the difficulty level of Sekiro and that's fine for me. I can faceroll most normal enemies, but if I get too sloppy or somehow pull several at once I can still die. Bosses are a challenge the first time, but they're always beatable without needing the reactions of a superninja. If you can finish Sekiro on NG+++ or whatever, you'll probably find this too easy.

Exploring the Cathedral of the Spark now and still finding it a fantastic game. Best level design I've seen in ages and combat still entertaining after 28 hours or so.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

Both Code Vein and The Surge 2 are pretty competent Souls-like games. Surge 2 has its own identity, both mechanically and thematically, and they work well. Code Vein is almost entirely derivative of Dark Souls, with almost 0 mechanical identity of its own. Its anime theme for the most part actually manages to bring it down, except for the TnA which are just fine. I maintain my previous opinion that Code Vein is anime Dark Souls made by noisy monkeys. I cannot stand the over-dramatic elements of CV's plot and its constant chatter. Having NPC companions with you is also a terrible idea since they make the game a breeze, which eliminates the entire point of the game (rising up to difficult challenges and odds). IMO BamCo should've spent the money they wasted on NPC dialogue to improving the game's level design.

If you go back and read my review, I absolutely adore The Surge 2, but it's nowhere near as good as Sekiro. Sekiro is a master-crafted work of art both in terms of mechanical perfection, and presentation subtlety.

I think a head-to-head comparison between The Surge 2 and Sekiro is a good idea. I won't compare CV here, because while it does have the closest implementation of DS-style game-play, specially in terms of build-variety and boss-fights, I have not beaten it, and also believe that it is fundamentally different to both the Surge and Sekiro.

Mechanically, both Sekiro and The Surge 2 trade build variety in favor of fine-tuning a single play style. Compared to the big "Grand Daddy" (Dark Souls) they offer almost no opportunity for "builds". In the Surge 2 you can choose between 3-4 different types of weapons with their own attack speed vs. damage trade-offs, however the moment-to-moment game-play is almost always going to be the same slurry of parry, dodge, counter, and attack. The same exact flow is present in Sekiro, since the only variability in "character build" comes from tools and combat arts, and not even your main weapon. Regardless, I am of the opinion that combat in Sekiro is even more finely tuned and perfected. Ultimately, preferring one over the other is going to be a matter of personal taste, as both are developed competently, however I am going to go with Sekiro in this category.

Boss-fights also go to Sekiro. The Surge 2 just doesn't feature enough bosses to compete here fairly. Sekiro also does not feature that many bosses, but at least they are not derivative of one another and the epic fights against the main villains are just fantastic, with every move, slash, attack and parry being well telegraphed, measured, and executed. Sekiro's boss-fights really do become elaborate dances against the beat of metal clashing metal, while in The Surge 2, fights are always less complicated with the enemies featuring very limited move-sets.

Graphically, The Surge 2 is a mess. It's lighting is blown out, texture quality is crap, and post-fx in general leaves a lot to be desired. Sekiro on the other hand features beautiful lighting, a consistent art-style throughout (which the Surge 2 also managed admittedly, but is brought-down by the overall graphical fidelity), and decent enough textures. This one definitely goes to Sekiro as well. Also, while both games have very good animation quality, I believe the animations in Sekiro flow better, and have way more subtle tells and ques to facilitate parrying.

Sound design is pretty good in both games, and music is always a matter of choice, so i'll refrain from commenting. I'd say both games feature very good voice-acting as well.

Lastly, I do not like The Surge 2's story. In fact I gave almost no attention to it whatsoever, whereas with Sekiro I was hooked the entire way, always looking out for more lore and plot. The game did not fail to deliver, and i love it even more for it. On the other hand, Surge 2's side-quests are very well written and performed, whereas Sekiro almost does not feature any. Lore-wise both games are actually pretty good, but Sekiro's constant blending of real-world mythology with artistic creativity takes the cake.

So there you have it. I believe Sekiro is a much better overall product compared to The Surge 2, but that's still like comparing Platinum to Gold. They are both valuable, and definitely worth a play.

Lastly, I would say this about Code Vein in short: It does have very good boss-fights so far. Much better than The Surge 2's and (only) better compared to Sekiro in the sense that the bosses can hold their own against a variety of different builds, whereas in Sekiro they are fine tuned to counter the only available fighting style. All and all, the AI responsible for handling the boss-fights in CV seems to be doing an excellent job.

 

[Eyestabber]

Finished the game yesterday. Great game, a solid 8.5 for me. Shame I had some issues on the very last area, but I assume it will be patched.

If you're on the fence about this one, I say either buy right now or wait for another patch. And if you see it on sale a couple months down the road, BUY IT. It's very good. Dare I say, it's slightly better than Nioh.

Compared to the big "Grand Daddy" (Dark Souls) they offer almost no opportunity for "builds".

Stopped reading here. You're talking complete and utter gibberish as Sekiro has but ONE playstyle that's forced onto the player. You can't even switch weapons. Meanwhile The Surge 2 offers 174 weapons split between 9 different categories, each with its own moveset and subtleties. And there is also another plethora of armor sets and implants with bonuses that can be mixed and matched to a gazillion possible builds. Granted, each and every one of these builds is melee with drone support, but so what? The timings and movesets are much different. OTOH Suckiro brings meaningless character progression chock full of pointless perks that do nothing and/or are SO situational you won't even remember they exist 99% of the time. Suckiro killed the BEST thing about these games, which is build variety and the sense of wonder that comes from taking on the same encounters but with completely different playstylles. In Suckiro every encounter is approached the same way because there is only ONE Dev Approved™ build for you to use.

As much as I agree that DaS brings more build variety than Surge, the comparison with Suckiro is an incredible stretch. "Both games trade build variety", fucking lol. You should work in gaming journalism.

Exploring the Cathedral of the Spark now and still finding it a fantastic game. Best level design I've seen in ages and combat still entertaining after 28 hours or so.

Yeah, it surprised me a lot how the game manages to maintain its high standards for level design even much later on. I was expecting it to take a nosedive after the first half, given its budget, but that was not the case at all. From JCPD to the Great Wall, every area is well designed and features interconnected shortcuts and TONS of secrets. Oh and

Spoiler

Remember to find Rex and Ironmaus/Kyle Baxter in the Cathedral!

Sounds improved in every way compared to the original

And that's the TL;DR of Surge 2. We should all rejoice, because Surge 2 is that ONE rare instance in which we see a new franchise and go "eh...good foundation, but needs some extra work to be really good" and then the sequel comes around and actually DOES preserve the foundation while putting on the work required to make a great game.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

You're talking complete and utter gibberish as Sekiro has but ONE playstyle that's forced onto the player. You can't even switch weapons. Meanwhile The Surge 2 offers 174 weapons split between 9 different categories, each with its own moveset and subtleties. And there is also another plethora of armor sets and implants with bonuses that can be mixed and matched to a gazillion possible builds.

Firstly, it seems you only half understood my point. I WAS saying that Sekiro has only one play style aka no builds. Second, what you are saying about the gazillion build combinations in The Surge 2 IS UTTER HOGWASH. There are 9 weapon types in TS2 and all of those are melee weapons, so I guess you consider attack animations and speed as builds. There's really no meaningful character building here. All you ever do is do physical damage, either in rapid, small chunks, or slow big ones. There IS some elemental damage, but the game's current level of difficulty, as well as the overall low % elemental-vulnerability of enemies makes the whole system pointless. Same goes for armor. There is basically two types, light with low damage reduction, and heavy with high damage reduction. Well I guess there is the third type (the maus armor) but that's kind of a cheat item, since it is both light and high DR. What are you even talking about?

Let me re-iterate my point: Compared to Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, both Sekiro and The Surge 2 have abysmal build variety.

Stopped reading here.

This did you a lot of disservice. I think you saw what i wrote there and blew a fuse or something.

I really don't care if you don't like Sekiro. But you are saying things about The Surge 2 that are simply not true. The game is pretty great, but It's not going to be remembered for its incredible build-variety the way DS and DaS are.

"Both games trade build variety", fucking lol. You should work in gaming journalism.

I mean, what else are you going to say next? The Surge 2 has a gazillion different boss fights? Get a grip mate.

 

[toro]

You're talking complete and utter gibberish as Sekiro has but ONE playstyle that's forced onto the player.

True.

You can't even switch weapons. Meanwhile The Surge 2 offers 174 weapons split between 9 different categories, each with its own moveset and subtleties. And there is also another plethora of armor sets and implants with bonuses that can be mixed and matched to a gazillion possible builds. Granted, each and every one of these builds is melee with drone support, but so what? The timings and movesets are much different.

So both games enforce their playstyle on the player ... however Sekiro is bad while The Surge 2 is a worthy sequel. Sure.

 

[Eyestabber]

So both games enforce their playstyle on the player ... however Sekiro is bad while The Surge 2 is a worthy sequel. Sure.

If you can't tell the difference between having one weapon with one moveset, fixed attack speed and no choice in armor X having 9 weapons each with varying movesets depending on where you're aiming + countless interactions with your choice of implants and armor sets than you and the newfag can't be helped.

Next argument: DEX and STR builds are exactly the same.

 

[toro]

So both games enforce their playstyle on the player ... however Sekiro is bad while The Surge 2 is a worthy sequel. Sure.

If you can't tell the difference between having one weapon with one moveset, fixed attack speed and no choice in armor X having 9 weapons each with varying movesets depending on where you're aiming + countless interactions with your choice of implants and armor sets than you and the newfag can't be helped.

Next argument: DEX and STR builds are exactly the same.

How about No Kuro's Charm, Combat Arts and Prosthetics?

 

[Puteo]

In Suckiro every encounter is approached the same way because there is only ONE Dev Approved™ build for you to use.

Not true, there are two ways to approach every encounter.

1. Run around like a headless chicken for 30 minutes and beat the boss first try.
2. Spend hours, dozens of retries, create countless whining forum posts, uninstall the game 3 times, download a trainer, beat the boss, then tell everyone else you "beat it on your like, third try" and everyone else needs to "get gud" because 隻狼 is the greatest game ever made and you just aren't gud enough to appreciate it.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

If you can't tell the difference between having one weapon with one moveset, fixed attack speed and no choice in armor X having 9 weapons each with varying movesets depending on where you're aiming + countless interactions with your choice of implants and armor sets than you and the newfag can't be helped.

And you can't be helped either oldfag, if you are deluded enough to think The Surge 2 has "countless" builds. It's so obvious that you haven't done your homework and are just making stuff up. There are two playstyles in The Surge 2: Slow parry and fast dodge.

 

[Arnust]

It certainly has more than that, that's for sure; while obviously the core combat isn't gonna change (which makes me wonder then what game is supposed to be a good example of build variety because DS sure wouldn't be) there's a good amount of mechanics to play with. Off the top of my head, and obviating "just" using a specific weapon class or two:

• Elemental
  - Decrease physical damage in favor of more elemental
  - Nano, can add it to non elemental weapons, buff innate nano weapons or sport two elements, can generate explosions on proc
  - Electric, [...], can increase stun time, generate AoE on ground slams
  - Fire
  - Poison
  
• Energy
  - Buffs on X amount of batteries
  - Heal/Regen Stamina on filling a battery
  - Playing around different injectables
  - Refill battery on X action
• Attack speed
  - Stacking from hits
  - specific weapon/armor/implants combos buff it
• Drone
  - Increase ammo carrying capacity/Generate ammo on filling batteries
  - Continuous beam drone buffs (feeds into elemental)
  - "Utility" auto regenerating ones
  - Damage buffs relative to proximity
• Execution/On Kill
  - Make it free
  - Heal/refill injectable/regen stamina on execution
  - Increase damage/stats on kill
• Deflecting
  - Completely optional in the first place
  - Restore energy, health, stamina on deflect
  - Buff damage for a short time even past the followup counter
• Armor
  - Shit armor/resistance shit poise break amazing stamina economy and attack speed
  - Inbetweeny boring, sometimes has nice set bonuses
  - Whack defense amazing poise break trash stamina neutral to much worse attack speed - Rollspam king
  - Combos of any two halves of them (operator legs/chest/head+goliath arms/chest/head works pretty well if it doesn't look like shit)
• All the other shit I'm missing, mostly particulat set bonuses

Like, I myself went for a very spammy playstyle with multihit weapons like Staves, Spears or Punching Gloves, heal on battery refill and energy gain buffs. Got the Jaguar (then cursed myself on realizing there was a near objectively better version from that boss) armor and used sniper drones a lot, then found the EMP drone and combo'd it with an electrical staff for actually reliable zapping (later found the one set that buffs electric particularly and rolled with that for a while), then when I got more comfy with combat I got the Cerberus set to hoard energy for buffs rather than being constantly on a healing buffer, and near right before the end of the game I found a weapon that became insane paired with the Angel armor but I hadn't upgraded it at all so didn't really use it.

If I "had" to do another run or continue into NG+ I'd try interact with heavy weapons and deflecting way more than I did, or actually using Nano at all, or doing maybe the same with a different progression.

 

[Shackleton]

Finished it last night, just under 30 hours. Excellent game, really enjoyed it. I must admit to not taking quite as much time in the last couple of levels, wanted to get done. They did re-use quite a lot of assets in the second half of the game, but it felt natural and there were some changes that surprised and pleased me. Level design was definitely the high point, fantastic connectivity and design.

After not being too keen at first, loved the combat by the end. I went with probably a quite generic setup of the Angel armour and Codename: Valkyrie twin riggers which just tore shit up by the end. In fact, that's probably my only real negative on the game; it got too easy. By the last third I felt pretty OP and didn't need to bother worrying too much about being hit as I could heal up very easily and had plenty of energy to tank most mobs. I took the Cathedral boss down in three goes and then only died twice to the next three bosses including the end one. If I could have stood to wear the silly Mouse suit it would probably have been even less.

I liked that NG started with a slightly different sequence that provided some background to the first run, but not got far into NG to know what else has changed. Not sure I will do tbh as there's always more games to play, but I don't regret spending the time to complete this one.

 

[Arnust]

NG+ is pretty neat, you get a good amount of extra enemies. For instance, two of those reddish nanite monsters from right before the final boss appear in the Detention Center from the tutorial. Do wish collecing duplicate logs gave you some scrap or something tho

In another note

Spoiler

That reference to Prisoner and 1's medbays gave me the fee fees

 

[Shackleton]

NG+ is pretty neat, you get a good amount of extra enemies. For instance, two of those reddish nanite monsters from right before the final boss appear in the Detention Center from the tutorial. Do wish collecing duplicate logs gave you some scrap or something tho

In another note

Spoiler

That reference to Prisoner and 1's medbays gave me the fee fees

Yes, I've just spent 30 minutes farming them for weapon and armour upgrades. In related news: Eli's 'endgame' Heavy Duty weapon tears them a new one with it's wide swings and staggering power. Still finding the combat really fun, might well do a second playthrough.

 

[Eyestabber]

Like, I myself went for a very spammy playstyle with multihit weapons like Staves, Spears or Punching Gloves, heal on battery refill and energy gain buffs. Got the Jaguar (then cursed myself on realizing there was a near objectively better version from that boss) armor and used sniper drones a lot, then found the EMP drone and combo'd it with an electrical staff for actually reliable zapping (later found the one set that buffs electric particularly and rolled with that for a while), then when I got more comfy with combat I got the Cerberus set to hoard energy for buffs rather than being constantly on a healing buffer, and near right before the end of the game I found a weapon that became insane paired with the Angel armor but I hadn't upgraded it at all so didn't really use it.

If I "had" to do another run or continue into NG+ I'd try interact with heavy weapons and deflecting way more than I did, or actually using Nano at all, or doing maybe the same with a different progression.

Yeah sure, but at the end of the day you're just describing different ways of pressing buttons to deal damage while also pressing other buttons to avoid damage. Which means your "builds" are actually exactly the same thing. JUST. LIKE. SUCKIRO. EXCEPT WITHOUT MIYAZAKI'S TASTY COCK.

Checkmate, Surgetards. * tips fedora * uses totally original spiderman hook to escape from the discussion *

 

[Eyestabber]

Almost done with NG+. To anyone just picking up this game, here is my 100% OBJECTIVELY TRUTHFUL weapon review:

S Tier:
Spear: Best "noob weapon". Great reach, moveset, dps, everything.
Twin Rigged: Trades reach and AoE for raw damage output. Best weapon type for most bosses and also strong for progression. Includes a handy spin to win attack and moves for pretty much every occasion. Probably the strongest weapon from a "pure power" perspective.

A Tier:
Staff: similar to spear, but is held back by the fact that Tactile Enhancer doesn't include staves. MG Negotiator is STILL the best early game weapon and you should give the Staff a try.
One Handed: no nonsense weapon type with a basic, but solid moveset. Works with Tactile Enhancer, but lacks any serious form of AoE. Strong overall choice. I won my first playthrough with Captain Cervantes' sword. You don't really need anything else

B Tier:
Punching Gloves: A slightly worse twin-rigged. Only reason to use these is the Ironmaus set. The build is SUPER strong, but the gloves themselves are "meh". Twin rigged's moveset is more versatile
Double Duty: very fun weapon type with tons of versatility, but I feel like the stamina cost holds it back from being great.

C Tier:
Heavy Duty: situational, but when it works it works REALLY well. Stunlocking Eli is fun. HOWEVER the main thing about HD isn't attacking, but rather riposting. When you become a parry GOD HD goes S tier, but until then...

D Tier:
Hammer: very bad when you don't build around it (AID Eclipse). Mediocre when you do...
Single Rigged: horrible moveset. Damage is actually quite decent, but the moveset makes me wanna cry.

 

[cvv]

My two cents, Surge 1 was a total bummer for me, I loved the combat but the dull, tedious environments and enemy types ruined my erection p. soon. I'm absolutely digging this tho. I only played a few hours of S1 but the improvement in this is obvious, especially the level design. The first three bosses were just as meh as in the first game tho so kinks still remain.