4X The Unsurpassed Brian Reynolds' Alpha Centauri thread

[laclongquan]

No way~ The elite bonus is very useful: +1 movement, increase att/def. We can be satisfied with Wealth units in peace time, but to fight against the unstoppable horde of chin... ah, Believers, we can not lower our morale. I stole both weapon10 and weapon13 techs from her massively inefficient but numerous institutes after all. Miriam might be inefficient in research but she got a continent the size of Europa-Asiana to draw on~

Also, as I am the aggressor invading her heartland in Monsoon, My logistic line is stretched quite thin. The original fleet support it is finished by missiles over the turns. The drip of additional force is drop troop across medium sea, and an occasional isle bring the rest across, praying that Miriam doesnt notice them (or missile: Headshot!!!)

Airforce? from a pretty safe city in the sea I get them to fly across, hit one, twice, thrice, then return to a safe conquered town. Then get headshot in the next turn. Generally chopper is a profitable way to attrite her force. Frustrating, but acceptable, because if she ever concentrate her missile at each conquered town she can get it back one at a time. As it was, any airforce get too close to her range get clobbered! If there's air defense, that's just mean she throw more missiles at it~

EDIT: and whatdoyouknow~ It works! From the standing point of a superpower, especially in military, now Miriam is brought to half my ratings based solely on this campaign at her heartland. Her megapolis now mine, her armies get cut down to size against the modern force of Morganites. They do kill us with regularity each turn, but that is thank to the overkill app of missile. Their land troops get caught in the ZoC between cities so can only advance slowly into the ambush hit-and-run of amphi tanks.

/mode "General Napoleon": OFF

 

[laclongquan]

It's not that horrible if you look at it from the standpoint of grand strategy. You can do a proper campaign with three dimension: air, sea, land, and unstoppable missile strikes. you can do attrition and cut off their supply line (bait them sending troops to a battle field and ambush their reinforcement on the way). The customizable designs make sure it's head and shoulder above the competition. once you leave SMAC's unit design shop, civilization series become fetid~

The weakness is the stack of doom tactic: 3-4 (land) hit and the whole column collapse.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Call to Power? Didn't actually play it much, anything cool there?

Cool armies with front line melee and back line shooting.

C-evo? No idea, actually. Been so long since I played it, although it did have the sexy unit workshop. Last time I tried to take a look it smelled old, in a bad way.

Really hard.

 

[Nevill]

The Brazilian Slaughter

So, what were the other RESERVED entries for?

 

[CptMace]

Who's the fag who voted UN Peacekeepers ?

 

[laclongquan]

1 talent every 4 pop, and base 9 before Hab, can get you your adherents everywhere.

Especially in Transcend where Psych/Talent cost can be so high~

And if you get to HD, you would have won anyway~

 

[Jason Liang]

More like, only 6 votes for Believahs and 10 votes for YANG! means most of y'all are noobs.

 

[Nevill]

Especially in Transcend where Psych/Talent cost can be so high~

It is more than that. You can't invest more Psych points that base pop x2, any excess beyond that is lost. So if you are too far up into bureaucracy on Transcend, you can't get enough talents to achieve Golden Age with Psych alone. You'll need Human Genome Project and the like.

Lal finds it much easier to maintain Golden Ages due to his ability.

More like, only 6 votes for Believahs and 10 votes for YANG! means most of y'all are noobs.

Believers are objectively weaker, even though they can be fun to play if you know how.

I think it goes something like this: Uni > Gaians/Hive > Peace/Believers >>> Sparta, with Morgan heavily fluctuating depending on a lot of conditions.

Hive would probably suck in late game... if any of the other factions lived long enough to see it.

Oh, and I voted for it. It plays very differently from the others.

 

[Nevill]

Nevill, does PRACX work ok with SMAC + Kyrub's patch? I think it may help me, could be wrong tho.

Got a confirmation:
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=14308.msg80991#msg80991
So, yes, it should be compatible.

Regarding the AI - there are several areas where they are deficient, and terraforming is just a tip of the iceberg.

First things first, they seem to be unable to expand normally. The only ones I've seen doing decently on this front are Yang and - sometimes - Miriam. And of course, any AI dropped in a jungle. The rest have far too few bases.

Why do they have few bases? Well, they don't build much in terms of Colony Pods, but you can fix their priorities somewhat. However, it is hard to teach them where to found bases. While playtesting the mod I often let the AIs alone for about 100 years to see how they fare. Well, they do poorly. Their base sites often make no sense, and they often give an order to Colony Pod only to retract it on the next turn. It is not rare to see ten Colony Pods going back and forth between the bases, unable to pick a location to settle in (and in the add-on the AI can be stopped dead in its tracks by a single fungal tower). Ultimately, it is impossible to make AI form any long-term plans when it doesn't know what it will be doing next turn.

I don't know what variables have been hard-coded in the game, but Yang always seem to fare better than Morgan or University on the expansion front, regardless of the values I assigned to the faction txt file. It looks like I just can't make capitalists and scientists breed.

Another big problem for the AI is support handling. It simply doesn't know how to do it, and cripples its own production with trash units that quickly die to the better equipped ones of the player. Left to its own devices, AIs quickly halve their production capabilities, or worse. That's why I've been radical in my solution - I have separated AI factions from Player ones, and gave them Clean Reactors as a free ability for any unit they design. Yes, I may have to deal with hordes of units now (which is made easier by the stack mechanic), but at least I am no longer dealing with complete cripples. If I can't teach them to use minerals intelligently, better just to circumvent the problem.

The third problem comes from AIs prioritizing food over everything else. I think kyrub fixed that one... somewhat. They still put too much emphasis on food which leads to big, underdeveloped bases prone to drone riots. I've heard that they switch to prioritizing minerals mid-game and energy late-game, but that needs to happen much, much sooner. Like, in the very first hundred years sooner.

The fourth one is the lack of buildings. The bases AI has are often underdeveloped. Miriam is probably the only one who does adequately, maintaining a good balance between expansion and building infrastructure. kyrub's AIs are better at this, but they often leave their bases protected with nothing but scout patrols.

And finally there is handling drone riots. Due to overgrown bases, poor building choices, and not using specialists they often have to use psych to balanse those out, undermining their already not-so-great research.

There is a miriad of other issues, like being unable to use sea transports or air units effectively, but those are really peanuts compared to the basic stuff.

It comes as no surprise that AI fares best when put on a separate continent with no one to fight (no artificial expansion limits, no huge armies to support, well-developed bases, decent research due to passable terraforming), but those crumble on first agressive contact with another faction.

 

[Ulminati]

Who's the fag who voted UN Peacekeepers ?

You realise you can click the "2 vote(s)" link to see who voted, right?

 

[laclongquan]

Huge Map of Planet, Transcend.

In my Morgan game I notice that Miriam build more infrastructure, and use specialist. She also kill Yang fairly early and get a huge continent to build. The Monsoon jungle got like 10 cities, and the heart of her population. The planetneck redsea-like got developed full of kelp+mine with 8 sea towns. She cover the huge continent fairly evenly, though of course developed not equally. On land, she do try to farm+solar, and some forest quite extensively around towns.

Ditto with Lal. Even with my pressing him gradually from the south, he build up the uranium flats with f+s and mining the rockies. No sea development, though.

Sparta got a single smallish continent up north to play but cant build for shit. She got a few sea transport and foil combatants, but no formers at all.

Fact is, only Miriam build up sea development, although only in the Planetneck area down to the ocean. I suspect it's thank to her initial build a small fleet, and no naval combat in that area. Gaian fleet got completely destroyed and suppressed by me, but even so her Freshwater Sea in her exclusively possession doesnt get developed at all despite no combat around that area. The Lal sole sea town doesnt even try to build former no matter how long I left it. Sparta is just weak in build.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Who's the fag who voted UN Peacekeepers ?

*raises hand* Right here. I started playing them because ideologically I'm probably closest to them, but I soon found that combining them with SMAX pop boom rules is just hilariously powerful. I'm also a big fan of their versatility - they can fit almost any playstyle.

 

[Johannes]

I started playing them because ideologically I'm probably closest to them

 

[kyrub]

I really like Peacekeepers, especially as opponents.

In various other Civ-like games, the peaceful opponents are easily the worst factions, toothless and naive humanists. Ariel in MoM simply waits until you outgrowth him and destroy him. SMAC authors had the fantastic idea to make Lal a mischievous ideologist, with kind words but strong side agenda. One of the best lore for a faction in the game!

 

[L'ennui]

You only hurt yourself by resisting.

 

[Jason Liang]

Yeah, I love that Lal is actually more of a mad scientist than Zak with his cryogenically frozen corpse wife that he talks to like Al Swearengen and the Indian Chief head. Not quite as mad as Yang or Aki though.

Alpha Centauri had this unique way of making a Luddite religious zealot like Sister Miriam quite rational. At least she wasn't worshipping mindsucking worms or engineering singularity inducers.

I wish I could find the Alfa Centauri novels. The summaries I've read sound awesome.

 

[Silva]

You only hurt yourself by resisting.

You can pick any faction you want, but if you dont pick Yang for best quotes and secret projects movies you are insane and should be nerve stapled.

 

[laclongquan]

Huge map, Transcend

Peacekeeping force is the faction you want for easy control AND golden age at Transcend. In 3 previous games, I only got Golden Age at headquarter and the biggest energy city (psych10%). With Lal, 10% is enough to send 30% of my cities into Golden Age. The 1 talent per 4 citizen is a great bonus~ I havent had to build a single theatre. if they are out of golden age, I just make a pod and down them go~

His single weakness, -1 Efficiency, force me to keep the number of city down and focus on making them grow. Base9 before Hab complex is a great thing, since I have more than enough time to build what I need to build.

On diplomatic front, I got pact with neighbour Miriam and far-off Morgan. Miriam because I dont want to waste time taking/building her cities, just leech off her initial advantage of techs, then credit, then let her bleed off on Hive on the next continent. Morgan is far and making a bundle off my trade, though I make back a smaller bundle. ALthough, I gift him a specifically-built ocean city and use that as his weakness to leech off his tech, his credit, and let him vent on Spartans and Hive. Pactsister Gaia got cream by Spartans, so the relationship is not very useful. The diplo front allow me to get a double commerce resolution, something can be quite hard to get in other games, though not enough to reinstate charter.

Fundy+Research making sure Lal got some benefit on the diplo front. Funny thing is Miriam run on Free Market

On military, I got a force of worms hunting around Miriam's city in the Ruins. If she ever turn hostile, they will get teleport back to her front and smoke her ass~ The free support if worms in fungus is a great bonus to build them early, instead of build fission units and upgrade them later to fusion and higher weaponry. The force of rovers I keep around for that would drain me dry quite enough.

On tech side, slow going. University was swallowed by the Hive early so the greatest drive of early to mid game is gone. Currently I am at top, but Yang, Morgan and Miriam are neck to nect as second place with measly 120 per turn. Yang captured hunter seeker project from the UoP so his tech are safe from me, curse!

Analys: In all game, Yang and Morgan are two greatest pollutors. If they survive and prosper, they can cause fungal boom on their own. If you dont want that global warming event, keep them pruned down often.

 

[Lagi]

...
C-evo? No idea, actually. ...

C-evo combat mechanic

[my opinion] best civ combat mechanic​

Classic ADM stats,
HP is also % of actual unit strenght (unit with 48/24 str and 25% of HP has effective Attack and Defense strenght 12/6).
Attacker strenght is % limited, if he has less than 1 move point (so attack with 0,6 MP = 60% strenght).
Attack is usually bigger than defense, defense is boosted by terrain.

love it (esp. str limit from current move and hp)​

100% deterministic (no rolls) - uncertain element come from fog of war & units hide in stack.

like it (I personally hate chess (no uncertainty, just brain overload) and hate too random games)
​

"defender of sheeps" type of unit stacks -
stack unlimited in one tile.
But only one unit from stack defend against one attacker.
If defender lost, all units from stack are destroyed as well, unless the combat take place in city, then only one defender is lost.
Game always choose the best defender from stack including all parameters and abilities.

I love it. Combat its tactical (in strategic way).
Believably implemented without new game mode. (I would say realistic, but haters immediately bring out dictionary definintion)

Possition of your unit matter a lot, still you can and want to stack units, because after attack defender lose HP and strenght you want to have more defenders. You can suprise enemy and kill lots of unit, with single strike. As well you can lose half an army with bad unit placement.
​

No attack at range or wihout retaliation.
Each attack end with one unit destroyed. Not destroyed unit always lose HP, the smaller the difference the less. Draw end with double kill.
You want to sacriface units to weaken stronger opponent or deal more damage, if your unit get destroyed in enemy
turn anyway (if you had better attack(your)/defense(enemy) ratio than defense(your)/attack (enemy) )

Like it. Artillery is a unit with high attack, low defense and slow move. Never like artillery in Alpha Centauri.
​

unit design
you have to invent each unit by yourself (instead of next advance you select new unit design)
by selecting unit features, you increase unit weights. More weight = more expensive unit. Weight limit is set by tech advances.

some little flaws here (fixable), see below
​

and its fast, because there is no animations
===============================================
Alpha Centuari is in general a better game, still I prefer Cevo.
Its faster, more rule condensed game than expanded with lots of elements "simulation".

complains

Cevo without war is a boring game.

Diplomacy tech trading break the game (too fast advance).

Fast expand > tall grow. But you dont have to build in each city dozens of common structures (you can, but can go without).

In late game you has each terrain tile upgraded. I hate having rail intersection everywhere.

+micro because there is no "settler just do whatever" button (there is macro for terrain enchantment, that make it less tedious).

In mid game you get advance each turn.

You gain advance so fast you need to think when is the right time to introduce new unit. You do it too soon and you're end with outdated units. Forget about carve many different units for special purposes each.

SunTzu wonder excluding 4 units skill-feature for one nation. Academy Training (2tiles see range, free for every new designed unit) is a game breaker.

Poor decision for few wonders (Leonardo Workshop instant 2 tech, Newton Collage +research under Monarchy only, Manhattan Project no diplomacy for 40 turns (defuq?! Steffen where are nukes?!)

Factory+PowerPlant triple city production (like from 40 production its sudden 120!)

Corruption vanish in late game (why remove good limiting mechanism?! "no corruption under Democracy" - maybe autor is a politician or worship civ2 too much)

No good reaseon to not go for the heaviest unit design, because each unit has always 1 production support.

Unit spam, Standard AI milk it to the max, go Fundamentalism (no unit support, no Unrest) and set every city for constant unit production.

No water cities, but lots of facilities give coast tile bonus which is hilarious in late game. For money/research ts better to have more sea tiles than ground.

No reason to have high Wealth in cities, (you adjust it to not have unrest). Contrary its viable to have high tax or high research. [high wealth could f.ex. decrease amount of food required for city to grow].

source code is open (you could find link in the forum), so everyone can change the game to his likeness (beware that AI will refuse to play (or break game), if you change it too much).

===============================================

C-evo? No idea, actually. ... Last time I tried to take a look it smelled old, in a bad way.

Really hard..

"old"

(let me see the browser bar, yes its "rpgcodex.net")

what?

guys, its better to say less sometimes

Autor stop expanding or correcting the system after some time, because constant rule changing disturb the AI creators. It was 8 years in developmnet by single guy (for free).

 

[Irenaeus II]

Really hard.

"old"

(let me see the browser bar, yes its "rpgcodex.net")

what?

guys, its better to say less sometimes

Well, thankfully with your tips/strategy guide it will make the game easier.

 

[Lagi]

Well, thankfully with your tips/strategy guide it will make the game easier.

, but if;
you mean its hard to grasp? or AI is hard?

C-evo is civ2 after highschool and with make up, Alpha Centauri was lot harder for me to conceive. C-evo has ingame help F1 and tech tree (press 't' key) that explain all intricacies. Press Shift + Left click on everything to see help (building in cities, terrain, units).

Guide (you gonna lose anyway if you find it helpful):

Build 2xMilitia to explore map. Set capitol for food. Use settler to make irrigations at each green tile "i" shortkey. As soon as you hit 5 pop in Capitol start building Settler. Set him immidiatly to make new city, at place with lots of Grasslands/Plains. Dont build facilities in city besides Town Hall.

Dont attack any enemy, make peace treaty with meet nations: nation F9, press trumpet button, offer "scroll".

When you are asked about research; click in upper right corner "crosshair" symbol, and go for Monarchy first (change government after reseatch), then go for Gunpowder (set Focus when ask for next research), after gun powder design two units (one after another): infantry with 2 defense, and cavalry with 3 attack and 2 move.

You can set world with lots of water to have edge over Ai. Basic tactic to stop unit flow is making a sea desant back at enemy cities (they are defend with one unit).
Also you can change difficulty for each player when you check Free Player Setup (give self 1 bar and computer 3 bars).

 

[Irenaeus II]

That's a nice build order.

 

[laclongquan]

Oh and to answer the question about peacekeeping force Lal.

Lal is the guy you play at Transcend, Aggressive factions

He's about the only guy cheap enough to pop Golden Age easy at Transcend. The other factions? They pay through the nose for that. And you generally dont have to think about Theatre before Hab complex, and maybe even then. If you dont care about GA at that base, dont worry about it.

The extra in voting sure help in getting that Chairman seat, and forcing through a double commerce vote. Combine that with some project and no one can pry you off that seat. The trade credit really help, so getting some allies and keeping them alive is a must.

The -1 EFF ensure that you need to think of your base locations. ICS is a losing proposition for Lal, strange as that show.

And if micromanage your hundreds of bases is not your thing then Lal is for you. Sure you can pop them down like mushrooms, but it pay better to concentrate on steady expansion and steady development.

It might be that I am not good enough, but I find that Lal is a bit of a slow starter. More than likely it take all effort to grab one or two early secret projects.

 

[Silva]

Lal is the guy you play at Transcend, He's about the only guy cheap enough to pop Golden Age easy at Transcend. The other factions? They pay through the nose for that.

Pfff. Inferior being. Who needs talents when you have nerve stapling. Also, Golden Age is an ilusion. Your handful GA cities cant compete with my dozens bases output.

"Quantity has a quality all its own".

Chairman Cheng Ji Yang,
Essays on Mind and Matter.

 

[laclongquan]

Dont realllllly want to micromanage hundred of bases. If I get legitimate bonus for playing smaller number of base, I will jump on it~

Also, Yang might just be my next choice after I win this one. We shall see how it fares.