The Video Game Corporate War: Epic Games vs Apple and Google

[taxalot]

God fucking damn it.

I woke up really angry this morning. I'm a gamer. You know what gets me angry as a gamer ? The Epic Game Store.



As both a gamer and someone with more than a passing interest in economics, I cannot help but care about what is going on.



The Epic Game Store is maddening. First, who needs a fucking new launcher ? It really grinds my gear. I am very very mad about this. Totally upset. I do not want to install a new launcher.



I also do not like how Epic is trying to get gaming exclusivities ; I liked it a whole lot better when everything was exclusive to Steam. God fucking damn it, I wish they would just all burn down.



And did I mention about the spying ? I mean, do you want China to know about your gaming habits and steal your money ? God fucking damn it, Epic. You piss me off.



Also, as a gamer, really super mad as they are now trying to exploit political imagery to fullfil their dubious agenda. As a gamer, really pissed and I wish more people would realize what is at stake here.

https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/1293851398195552257

 

[Viata]

This kind of shitpost is not allowed here, taxalot. Go to the rpgaddicted thread where we are talking about politics.

 

[Alienman]

Looks like a "you can't be upset over this thing since there are much worse things out there" post.

 

[Mortmal]

Really not sure what the end goal is here; Epic fucked off of Google Play Store for a year before deciding to just put Fortnite back up without getting any sweetheart deal. Now they’re flat out breaking the rules Apple and Google have set hoping for something to happen? If Netflix and Disney aren’t getting special deals from Apple, how is your meme game played by 12 year olds getting one?

When you are strong and wealthy you get special deals , rules are for peons. It's similar to colonial companies of the 1800's fighting.

 

[taxalot]

Looks like a "you can't be upset over this thing since there are much worse things out there" post.

I am saying that "gamers" have a very particular subset of things they get angry about.

 

[Viata]

So is life. Neither of the things get me angry, so whatever.

 

[Konjad]

Tell us more about what makes you angry, taxalot

 

[taxalot]

This place

 

[Viata]

This place

As someone who clearly cares about the world and the health and future of society, you should also care about your own health. Leave this place forever, do not seek for more suffering.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

This place

As someone who clearly cares about the world and the health and future of society, you should also care about your own health. Leave this place forever, do not seek for more suffering.

taxalot , heed this one while you still can.

 

[Perkel]

some redditor actually checked suits, here is TLDR:

• Both suits are being done with the help of 2 of the largest law firms in the US. Epic is clearly prepared to spend a lot on this.
  
  
• Both start with a short story about how the companies started up as small underdogs with noble intents (Google's motto "don't be evil", and Apple's crusade against IBM's computer monopoly with the 1984 ad). Then goes on to mention how both companies are now leaders in their industries.
  
  
• In the Apple case Epic makes a clear case: Apple only allows users to purchase apps from their App Store, and make in app purchases with Apple's payment processor. This harms the user, but also the developer. Apple takes a 30% "tax" on both App Store purchases and any in app purchases. Apple does not allow developers to distribute apps via any other platform than the App Store or use any other payment processor for in app purchases than Apple's. In this way Epic claims that Apple maintains a monopoly on the iOS device family.
  
  
• They compare that to how Mac's allow users and devs to distribute and download freely. Epic claims that the average fee for other payment platforms is 3% (1/10th of Apple's "tax").
  
  
• Back to Google. Epic claims that Google has been working for years to make Android more and more of a closed ecosystem. In their words: "Google has eliminated competition in the distribution of Android apps using myriad contractual and technical barriers".
  
  
• It seems that Epic is a lot more vague with Google's case than with Apple's (some details come later on). Its a lot shorter on details of any kind. Note: Fortnite was initially not released on Android via the Play Store, Epic moved it there later. On Android you can actually download apps from other stores or directly from a website.
  
  
• In both cases, Epic calls Fortnite a "global cultural phenomenon" and mentions its 350 million downloads.
  
  
• Epic mentions the anti-trust suits that opened the Windows PC platform up for other developers. Epic compares that to how Android and iOS phones are now so essential to people's every day life that they, like the Windows PC, also must allow competition on their platforms.
  
  
• Epic recalls how it tried to strike a deal with OnePlus to have the Epic Store preinstalled on their phones but Google blocked it. They then mention that Google themselves negotiates with all who wants to use Android to have their phones come preinstalled with Play Store and other Google apps like YouTube and Gmail.
  
  
• Apparently if you want to advertise your app via a Google product like YouTube, you must then only sell that app via the Play Store.
  
  
• LG told Epic that their contract with Google did not allow them to distribute apps via other platforms than Play Store.
  
  
• If you try to install an app via a website download you will then have to change your phone settings and click through warnings. These apps also cannot update in the background.
  
  
• Epic does not seek any payment for damages or similar in any of the cases. Epic claims to only be interested in an order to both companies to end their monopolistic practices.

 

[Dexter]

I am saying that "gamers" have a very particular subset of things they get angry about.

Most of the things you posted don't directly affect me, nor probably many people here (closest thing would probably be Uber, I used it like a dozen of times). People in general tend to care about things that affect them personally the most, for instance they'd probably be more pissed over breaking a nail or some other personal inconvenience than some guy across the world they never knew and never heard of getting killed. Also this is the Gaming subsection of this forum. Your argument is retarded.

Overall Timmy Tencent's personal crusade against Steam/Apple/Google is more amusing than angering though: https://twitter.com/search?q=(from:TimSweeneyEpic)&f=live

 

[Viata]

That video 1984 has been done for days already, waiting for the right time. This tweet's thread is pretty much a confirmation that he wanted to sue Apple soon or later and that required the game to be banned:

 

[Reinhardt]

Wtf i love apple now?

 

[Tacgnol]

The Sweeney cries out in pain even as he strikes you.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ultimanecat]

Atari sued Nintendo in the late 80s on antitrust grounds because you had to go through Nintendo to release a game on their systems, and Atari lost because they couldn’t prove that Nintendo was hurting their business. And back then, Nintendo even had really stupid rules like forcing companies to limit the number of releases per year and to not release the same title on other systems. The thing is that it’s not illegal to have a closed platform, even if it leads to a monopoly; it only becomes illegal when you use that monopoly power to harm competition. I’m not sure Epic is helping their case by stating how much money they’re making outside of Apple and Google, and unlike Atari before them bullshitting the US patent office into showing them how to defeat the NES’ lockout system and releasing unlicensed games, Epic actually had an agreement with Apple and Google which they entered into in good faith and breached.

Obviously this was all 30 years ago but honestly if I were Nintendo or Sony or Valve right now I’d also be worried about Epic making headway and legally limiting their ability to keep payments within their own systems too.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

In this way Epic claims that Apple maintains a monopoly on the iOS device family.

That would be interesting case if iOS was itself a monopoly on the market, but with sub 30% share it will be hard to argue they are. That's why they tag google along so to make a claim both make for 99% of mobile market share. So... they have to prove google and apple are in cartel.

 

[Fishy]

Looks like a "you can't be upset over this thing since there are much worse things out there" post.

I am saying that "gamers" have a very particular subset of things they get angry about.

Where do you find the time to get upset about gamers when there are so many more important things going on in the world?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So... why is not Epic allowing devs to sell their games on Epic Store for free again?

Because PC has alternative modes of distribution, apple phones only have the appstore.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

So... why is not Epic allowing devs to sell their games on Epic Store for free again?

Because PC has alternative modes of distribution, apple phones only have the appstore.

Games on EGS can be downloaded from them only with the epic launcher, they are prohibiting others to use the Epic launcher. This case is so stupid it boggles my mind. I think Epic is just doing PR going against company more hated than them, so the sheep will see them as some sort of crusader for developers and customers.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So... why is not Epic allowing devs to sell their games on Epic Store for free again?

Because PC has alternative modes of distribution, apple phones only have the appstore.

Games on EGS can be downloaded from them only with the epic launcher, they are prohibiting others to use the Epic launcher. This case is so stupid it boggles my mind. I think Epic is just doing PR going against company more hated than them, so the sheep will see them as some sort of crusader for developers and customers.

That's not the same. The equivalent would be if you could only distribute games on Windows through the Microsoft store.

 

[what am i doing]

So... why is not Epic allowing devs to sell their games on Epic Store for free again?

Because PC has alternative modes of distribution, apple phones only have the appstore.

Games on EGS can be downloaded from them only with the epic launcher, they are prohibiting others to use the Epic launcher. This case is so stupid it boggles my mind. I think Epic is just doing PR going against company more hated than them, so the sheep will see them as some sort of crusader for developers and customers.

That's not the same. The equivalent would be if you could only distribute games on Windows through the Microsoft store.

Apple has nowhere near the dominance over smartphones that Microsoft has over desktop computers. Apple iPhones are around 13% of phones (making them a small niche) whereas Windows accounts for about 87% of desktop computers. The actual equivalent would be if you could only distribute games on Apple computers through an Apple store while being able to do whatever you want on Windows, as Apple computers have about the same market share of desktop computers that Apple phones have of smartphones.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Apple iPhones are around 13% of phones

This is a global figure, about half of all smartphones in USA are Apple products.

 

[what am i doing]

Apple iPhones are around 13% of phones

This is a global figure, about half of all smartphones in USA are Apple products.

Still nowhere near Microsoft's level for desktop computers, and that also is without considering that the only real alternative to Windows is Linux, which is somewhat more tedious and less convenient than Windows, particularly for gaming (making Windows' dominance over desktop gaming even more pronounced) whereas Android phones are much better than iPhones from a user standpoint. Windows virtually has a monopoly on desktop gaming, and while recent improvements to the Linux experience as well as Microsoft making their own product worse is helping to erode this monopoly, it's still not comparable to the smartphone situation where you actually have multiple different and completely viable options, and if you don't like the situation with Apple you can just get an Android phone instead and be no worse off. Actually I'm not sure why you wouldn't get an Android phone to begin with since Apple charges more for worse products, but that's besides the point.